[CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx

[Deprived]

And yes I agree that price and value are certainly related. But what I was arguing was that dropping the price of something in half doesn't drop the value in half (which I think you agree with).

Yes - putting them up at half price (which you didn't even do) would only halve the value for anyone who HAD to sell their shares before your order was filled (surely a very small number of people - if any).  For anyone planning to hold the shares for more than a week or two the impact is likely minor judging by the speed the 1 million sold at.

[wachtwoord]

You are justifying your actions by assuming that people will hold their shares forever. Nobody will hold their shares forever. That is absurd.

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Off topic.
Too bad it seems that thief Michael Dell is stealing my Del shares (by buying out Dell way below their value).

[ThickAsThieves]

You are justifying your actions by assuming that people will hold their shares forever. Nobody will hold their shares forever. That is absurd.

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Off topic.
Too bad it seems that thief Michael Dell is stealing my Del shares (by buying out Dell way below their value).

I know I'll probably regret asking this, but why would you own Dell shares?

[gabbynot]

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Pretty sure the SEC (or some other regulatory agency) will be looking at unregistered securities like S.DICE long before "forever" is here.

[wachtwoord]

I know I'll probably regret asking this, but why would you own Dell shares?

http://financials.morningstar.com/ratios/r.html?t=DELL&region=USA&culture=en-us

23 Billion market cap, FCF of 3.2B, 3.3B, 4.8B 4.1B, 3.1B, 3.1 B, 1.4B, 3.6B, 3.5B, 4.8B and 3.1B in the last ten years. Even at 2.3B that's 10% Yield on Free Cash flow. Fyrthermore they own 11.2B in cash and short term investments while total debt is 9 B (so net positive 2.2B).

Dell is worth well north of $20 and I am getting screwed.

You are justifying your actions by assuming that people will hold their shares forever. Nobody will hold their shares forever. That is absurd.

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Yeah, lots of people think that way. It's not rational. If you die still owning the shares, then you have unnecessarily deprived yourself. You could have increased your income by selling them while you were alive.

Sure you can start eating your equity when you think you get close to death. Most of us aren't that sure about the date of their demise though. Anyway, I buy stocks as though I do not get to sell them: ever.

[evoorhees]

I understand the risks of investing. Prices change. My mistake was not considering the possibility that you would intentionally screw your shareholders.

I didn't screw anyone. Screwing shareholders would be a dilution, or running the site into the ground, or lying about something, or falsifying bets, etc. I've talked with many shareholders about this, the vast majority aren't bothered at all, because they know the value of the shares didn't fall just because the price was lower for 12 hours.

The value of a share is the price that you can sell it at.

False. Let's look at Bitcoin itself. I know Bitcoins are worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, because they will change the world. THAT is their value. The fact that the price is only $20 means it's a great time to be accumulating them. When BTC went to $2 in Nov 2011, I knew that wasn't the correct value, and bought more of them. Price =/= value. The entire point of investing, if you're doing it right, is to find things that have a price below their value, buy it, and wait for the rest of the market to realize its mistake.

If you started giving away shares for free, then they would be worthless because nobody would pay anything for them.

False. See above. A share given away for free still earns dividends and thus has value. So in this case price = 0 and value is clearly much higher.

You are justifying your actions by assuming that people will hold their shares forever. Nobody will hold their shares forever. That is absurd.

I'm not assuming that at all. But I am assuming holders know relatively what these shares are worth, and thus when they see more available at a price below market they'll be happy, not upset.

What you are really doing is making people happy at shareholder's expense. Your "opportunity" cost me 40% of my savings.

I didn't cost you anything. If you sold your shares at .0044 then you cost yourself, for selling below proper value. I'm guessing you didnt sell, and the price almost already back to where it was prior, so did I "earn" you 30% today?

You assume that the price will go up. Can you guarantee that?

I don't make that assumption. I simply assume the price will tend towards the proper value-based level.

[EskimoBob]

I love it! You guys are all so happy to mop up the shares, while largest investor(s) are slowly exiting. Wonderful!

Last few months have shown, how lucrative SDICE is. Whales appeared from nowhere and dumped piles upon piles of coin to SDICE. Guess what, it helps IPO to be finally sold out... and now, we have another placement of shares.
"HE IS GIVING YOU FREE MONEY" - like one retarded fuck was screaming in IRC.
 
You know what, this sounds so honest and so right, ya'll MUST! take out second mortgages and buy more SDICE!

PS! I hope I am wrong an this is not turning out to be another clusterfuck brewing in BTC land.

Hold on... its not a cluster fuck, IT IS A FKN S**T STORM!

Code:

EskimoBob_afk | evoorhees: have you talked to IRS or any other 3 letter asswipes?
evoorhees     | No but I'm talking with a lawfirm to ensure things are handled properly, now that the site has grown to a significant operation

talking with a lawfirm ... oops, we all know how this can end

[evoorhees]

I love it! You guys are all so happy to mop up the shares, while largest investor(s) are slowly exiting. Wonderful!

Last few months have shown, how lucrative SDICE is. Whales appeared from nowhere and dumped piles upon piles of coin to SDICE. Guess what, it helps IPO to be finally sold out... and now, we have another placement of shares.
"HE IS GIVING YOU FREE MONEY" - like one retarded fuck was screaming in IRC.
 
You know what, this sounds so honest and so right, ya'll MUST! take out second mortgages and buy more SDICE!

PS! I hope I am wrong an this is not turning out to be another clusterfuck brewing in BTC land.

Hold on... its not a cluster fuck, IT IS A FKN S**T STORM!

Code:

EskimoBob_afk | evoorhees: have you talked to IRS or any other 3 letter asswipes?
evoorhees     | No but I'm talking with a lawfirm to ensure things are handled properly, now that the site has grown to a significant operation

talking with a lawfirm ... oops, we all know how this can end

EskimoBob, you write lots of nonsense.

1) Are you suggesting that the whales are artificial, to boost up volumes? If so, please state this plainly. They are real, and besides the whales the base volume on the site is up substantially as well. Please present some evidence if you think something nefarious is going on, otherwise you're just spreading misinformation.

2) Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with large owners selling a small portion to the community? If so, why?

3) Are you suggesting that it is not a good idea to get legal council on SD? I think it's a very responsible thing to do

And you're ignoring the plain fact: SD has grown into an impressive operation. Those who bought S.DICE shares have seen both substantial appreciation as well as excellent dividends. The price of listed shares goes down to .0044 for 12 hours because I release a tranche to the community (selling for less than I could get if I were being super greedy) and you freak out?

Perhaps you don't believe that anyone in Bitcoinland is legitimate? Is it so hard to believe that there are real businesses being built, earning real income, and being honest about their operations, and benefiting those involved?  Do you not believe that Bitcoin is going to be a huge wealth generator for everyone who is involved in building these systems?

If you have valid concerns please convey them, but right now you're spreading FUD.

[ThickAsThieves]

What you are really doing is making people happy at shareholder's expense. Your "opportunity" cost me 40% of my savings.

I didn't cost you anything. If you sold your shares at .0044 then you cost yourself, for selling below proper value. I'm guessing you didnt sell, and the price almost already back to where it was prior, so did I "earn" you 30% today?

Well, I'm relieved that the price is almost back because it allows me to sell my shares to the idiots that don't understand that they can buy the shares for 0.0055. Though I kind of feel guilty about taking advantage of them.

Don't be be so sure. What if you don't get any and the 3rd tranche is set at .0060, then you'll just be spinning your wheels.

Also, it's not "taking advantage". If a buyer sees value, they buy. The dividend doesn't change based on share price.

[Korbman]

23 Billion market cap, FCF of 3.2B, 3.3B, 4.8B 4.1B, 3.1B, 3.1 B, 1.4B, 3.6B, 3.5B, 4.8B and 3.1B in the last ten years. Even at 2.3B that's 10% Yield on Free Cash flow. Fyrthermore they own 11.2B in cash and short term investments while total debt is 9 B (so net positive 2.2B).

Dell is worth well north of $20 and I am getting screwed.

I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dell-to-go-private-in-244-billion-deal-2013-02-05-10103550

[k]

Erik, do you have any insights into who the whales are? Do you think they are an early adopter with a large bitcoin stash or are they gamblers buying bitcoins to play SatoshiDice?

(I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory btw that the recent betting volumes are a ploy to increase the share price in case anyone thinks I'm implying that)

[dooglus]

Erik, do you have any insights into who the whales are? Do you think they are an early adopter with a large bitcoin stash or are they gamblers buying bitcoins to play SatoshiDice?

(I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory btw that the recent betting volumes are a ploy to increase the share price in case anyone thinks I'm implying that)

The whale has been observed recently playing "bit millions":

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=138047.msg1505179#msg1505179

[kgo]

People are placing bids above 0.0055 instead of just at exactly 0.0055 and getting the price locked in.

Do they just not know that these new shares are hitting the market?

Is there any way to distribute info about tranches or other important information through MPEX or do you need to check this thread for anything related to S.DICE?

[evoorhees]

Erik, do you have any insights into who the whales are? Do you think they are an early adopter with a large bitcoin stash or are they gamblers buying bitcoins to play SatoshiDice?

(I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory btw that the recent betting volumes are a ploy to increase the share price in case anyone thinks I'm implying that)

I have no idea who they are :/

I honestly would've been blown away by it, but after my trip to Macau I learned that yes there are people out there who gamble with hundreds of thousands, even millions, of dollars. I saw Baccarat tables where people would play in VIP rooms for 36 hrs using $50,000 chips.

[evoorhees]

People are placing bids above 0.0055 instead of just at exactly 0.0055 and getting the price locked in.

Do they just not know that these new shares are hitting the market?

Is there any way to distribute info about tranches or other important information through MPEX or do you need to check this thread for anything related to S.DICE?

They're doing that because the tranche will probably be oversubscribed (not enough shares for the demand at the price of .0055). If you place a bid at .0056 you get shares before anyone who has a bid at .0055.

I'll post all info about the upcoming tranches here in this thread and also in the #bitcoin-assets IRC channel.

As mentioned, Tranche 2 will be 1m shares released at 10pm EST for .0055 btc per. Haven't decided on the following tranches yet, but it was a mistake for me not to announce the first one, so rest assured info will be posted here prior to any release.

[MPOE-PR]

You are justifying your actions by assuming that people will hold their shares forever. Nobody will hold their shares forever. That is absurd.

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Yeah, lots of people think that way. It's not rational. If you die still owning the shares, then you have unnecessarily deprived yourself. You could have increased your income by selling them while you were alive.

Maybe you didn't need that income?

Probably the only way to reasonably transmit gpg keys to another is as part of your final disposition of assets.

People are placing bids above 0.0055 instead of just at exactly 0.0055 and getting the price locked in.

Do they just not know that these new shares are hitting the market?

Is there any way to distribute info about tranches or other important information through MPEX or do you need to check this thread for anything related to S.DICE?

MPEx is an exchange. It doesn't distribute news, that's an entirely different line.

[DannyM]

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Unless you mean "It is [a small part of] my retirement plan", it is absurd.

[BlackLilac Jordan]

I'm not surprised that there are people stupid enough to risk substantial amounts of money (for them) without having the fainest understanding of even the most rudimentary concepts of finance, but it's terrible that busy people with real work to do have to waste so much time repeatedly explaining basic information to these fools and children.

[fcmatt]

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Unless you mean "It is [a small part of] my retirement plan", it is absurd.

many dividend investors live off the dividends and carefully pick stocks which have a multi decade history of paying and
raising dividends. In the early years before retirement they simply reinvest the dividends with no charge and as they hit
retirement they change that to cash payout via dividends.

there is nothing absurd about holding coke shares and many other predictable companies until you die.

The Coca-Cola Company has paid a quarterly dividend since 1920 and has increased dividends in each of the last 50 years. The dividend payment amount below is the actual amount paid per common share.
http://ir.thecoca-colacompany.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=94566&p=irol-dividends

i think they are a safe lifetime bet. I am unclear, if stocks are a small part, what in the world are you investing in right now
besides bitcoin and sd? bonds? gold? unicorns?

[DannyM]

Holding shares forever is not absurd. It is my retirement plan.

Unless you mean "It is [a small part of] my retirement plan", it is absurd.

many dividend investors live off the dividends and carefully pick stocks which have a multi decade history of paying and
raising dividends. In the early years before retirement they simply reinvest the dividends with no charge and as they hit
retirement they change that to cash payout via dividends.

there is nothing absurd about holding coke shares and many other predictable companies until you die.

The Coca-Cola Company has paid a quarterly dividend since 1920 and has increased dividends in each of the last 50 years. The dividend payment amount below is the actual amount paid per common share.
http://ir.thecoca-colacompany.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=94566&p=irol-dividends

i think they are a safe lifetime bet. I am unclear, if stocks are a small part, what in the world are you investing in right now
besides bitcoin and sd? bonds? gold? unicorns?

I thought he meant satoshi dice shares are his sole retirement plan, which is absurd.