[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[coins101]

If you are reading this and you think everyone has gone mad (well me  ), then you need to understand a little more about private keys and how hard they are to find.

This is a great easy introduction to private keys



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloHVKk7DHk

Bitcoin 101 

[coins101]

Nice translation service

https://www.transifex.com/

[coins101]

So I'm researching lottery rules and laws. I'm pretty sure we don't fall into that category as we are not selling tickets.

But, the lottery game design aspect does have a few similarities. In particular, as the value of the payout grows, the participation increases.



We might need to create some official dates for reducing the collateral without affecting the validity of earlier participants. 500 SPR @ $50/SPR would be prohibitive to many and would potentially stifle participation?

[stonehedge]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery? 

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

[coins101]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery?  

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi, using percentage of mining rewards and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

[stonehedge]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery? 

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

Ha ha.  So I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're not running a lottery?

[coins101]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery?  

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

Ha ha.  So I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're not running a lottery?

no. no lottery.

More importantly, no development time required (unless we can increase the address sequence to 18 or 20).

1. Download the latest wallet which has van gen.

2. Send 500 SPR to yourself and sign the transaction to confirm you are looking for Satoshi.

3. Enter SatoshiNakamoto1 in your van gen.

4. Start searching for Satoshi.

[georgem]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery?  

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi, using percentage of mining rewards and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

I generally like your idea, but it needs some more brainstorming.

I think this would be a good case for a separate testing round (separate blockchain with adjustment to experiment what it would take to run "this lottery" - I know it's the wrong word.)...
... and if successful we can create the "find satoshi nakamoto" - coin. But I would never advocate to put all this into spreadcoin.
Taking 30% Mining reward from spreadcoin is reserved for servicenodes, and nothing else. We can't just start subsidising every side project by taking from the miners.
Upcoming Servicenodes are the only exception to that rule.

I am still preparing everything for the upcoming testnet storm, please stay tuned everybody.

[georgem]

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery?  

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

Ha ha.  So I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're not running a lottery?

no. no lottery.

More importantly, no development time required (unless we can increase the address sequence to 18 or 20).

1. Download the latest wallet which has van gen.

2. Send 500 SPR to yourself and sign the transaction to confirm you are looking for Satoshi.

3. Enter SatoshiNakamoto1 in your van gen.

4. Start searching for Satoshi.

Please start a separate thread in the spreadcointalk forum.

Projectname "Find Satoshi nakamoto",

and I will create a separate spreadcoin clone to test this idea.
If successful we can make such sideproject coins merge-mineable with spreadcoin.

[georgem]

1. Download the latest wallet which has van gen.

2. Send 500 SPR to yourself and sign the transaction to confirm you are looking for Satoshi.

3. Enter SatoshiNakamoto1 in your van gen.

4. Start searching for Satoshi.

Yes, all this can be done now already.

But all this is not enforceable, so if you would actually want to make this scheme work, you would need to adjust the whole protocol and blockchain to make it run in a "crypto" way.
(meaning those who look for the SatoshiNakamoto-Address are then like "the miners" of this new blockchain, solving Address-Finding-Problems while they secure the blockchain.)


Alternative: wait for the servicenode API sometime in the far future, where you can simply create and run your plot as part of the overlay network as proposed by e1ghtspace.

[minerpage]

Alternative: wait for the servicenode API sometime in the far future

I also like the idea... perhaps a game?

[coins101]

1. Download the latest wallet which has van gen.

2. Send 500 SPR to yourself and sign the transaction to confirm you are looking for Satoshi.

3. Enter SatoshiNakamoto1 in your van gen.

4. Start searching for Satoshi.

Yes, all this can be done now already.

But all this is not enforceable, so if you would actually want to make this scheme work, you would need to adjust the whole protocol and blockchain to make it run in a "crypto" way.
(meaning those who look for the SatoshiNakamoto-Address are then like "the miners" of this new blockchain, solving Address-Finding-Problems while they secure the blockchain.)


Alternative: wait for the servicenode API sometime in the far future, where you can simply create and run your plot as part of the overlay network as proposed by e1ghtspace.

I'm obviously missing something.

Why can't this be done in Spreadcoin? Does the vanity generator have a technical problem? Testnet on this doesn't help, that I can see.

30% of mining rewards - no. 1%, why not?

ServiceNodes are going to get 30% of mining rewards. Why not start now to build up a small fund, then reduce it down to 1% and keep 30% for servicenodes. Dash now has 50% to miners, 50% elsewhere.

This seems like an easy, low hanging fruit project that can get things going now.

What did I miss?

[georgem]

Alternative: wait for the servicenode API sometime in the far future

I also like the idea... perhaps a game?

Yeah, every game is just a set of rules,
but some games have an element of random chance (e.g. dice) others don't.

Plus, some games require some form of accounting, so that people can play for money without being able to cheat.

If we could one day create a servicenode API where everyone with a servicenode can create his own "games" simply by defining the game and accounting rules,
well that would be great.  

[georgem]

I'm obviously missing something.

Why can't this be done in Spreadcoin? Does the vanity generator have a technical problem? Testnet on this doesn't help, that I can see.

30% of mining rewards - no. 1%, why not?

ServiceNodes are going to get 30% of mining rewards. Why not start now to build up a small fund, then reduce it down to 1% and keep 30% for servicenodes. Dash now has 50% to miners, 50% elsewhere.

This seems like an easy, low hanging fruit project that can get things going now.

What did I miss?

That we want to decentralize everything.
We can't have people creating funds etc... and even if, we would need to give other people (especially miners) the ability to disagree with all that and not comply if they don't want to partake in those projects.
We want competition enabled at every step in the game.

Listen, I am not even sure about this 30% reward for SNs , this will need a lot of thinking before we are sure we are not going against the very principles we stand for.

Just an idea, but what if we let this % of mining reward fluctuate aswell?

We haven't even started yet, this will get very interesting as we move forward.

[coins101]

I'm obviously missing something.

Why can't this be done in Spreadcoin? Does the vanity generator have a technical problem? Testnet on this doesn't help, that I can see.

30% of mining rewards - no. 1%, why not?

ServiceNodes are going to get 30% of mining rewards. Why not start now to build up a small fund, then reduce it down to 1% and keep 30% for servicenodes. Dash now has 50% to miners, 50% elsewhere.

This seems like an easy, low hanging fruit project that can get things going now.

What did I miss?

That we want to decentralize everything.
We can't have people creating funds etc... and even if, we would need to give other people (especially miners) the ability to disagree with all that and not comply if they don't want to partake in those projects.
We want competition enabled at every step in the game.

Listen, I am not even sure about this 30% reward for SNs , this will need a lot of thinking before we are sure we are not going against the very principles we stand for.

Just an idea, but what if we let this % of mining reward fluctuate aswell?

We haven't even started yet, this will get very interesting as we move forward.

I'm still missing something.

This is a decentralized proposal and it is a competition. First to find a van gen gets the cash that's built up.

Just keep 500 SPR locked away to show you are in the horse race.

100 people taking part, that's 50,000 SPR.

1,000 people taking part, that's 500,000 SPR.

This will create positive price pressure to fund servicenodes costs. Their 30% of mining rewards will generate a significant return, making it very desirable to run a servicenode.

The cost to set this up is virtually nil. We are just sweating existing technology already in the system, with a free gift that SPR can have a unique name of the Bitcoin creator as one of its addresses.

[minerpage]

... with a free gift that SPR can have a unique name of the Bitcoin creator as one of its addresses.

Great PR value!

[coins101]

... with a free gift that SPR can have a unique name of the Bitcoin creator as one of its addresses.

Great PR value!

I thought so too!

I think I need to let this one bounce around my three brain cells for a few more days.

[stonehedge]

I am still preparing everything for the upcoming testnet storm, please stay tuned everybody.

Can't wait

I do think find Satoshi is a fantastic idea but maybe not for a few months

[georgem]

I'm still missing something.

This is a decentralized proposal and it is a competition. First to find a van gen gets the cash that's built up.

Just keep 500 SPR locked away to show you are in the horse race.

100 people taking part, that's 50,000 SPR.

1,000 people taking part, that's 500,000 SPR.

This will create positive price pressure to fund servicenodes costs. Their 30% of mining rewards will generate a significant return, making it very desirable to run a servicenode.

The cost to set this up is virtually nil. We are just sweating existing technology already in the system, with a free gift that SPR can have a unique name of the Bitcoin creator as one of its addresses.

Changing block reward to finance this scheme is when decentralization ends.

Everything else I agree with. And it really is an excellent PR opportunity for spreadcoin. ("Find Satoshi Nakamoto" sounds phenomenal)  

We can make this work once we have something similar like a crowdfunding mechanism in spreadcoin.
We absolutely need to make all this work mathematically, no bookies, no middlemen, no nothing. Not even the van gen wallet will be mandatory. (In anticipation that people will start creating optimized versions for sure)

It needs to work something like this:

• 1) Everyone who wants to participate should not have any control over the 500 SPR anymore. He can't even take the money back.
  He can just prove later that he has control over the address he used to pay the 500 SPR.
• 2) Everybody will have to pay that amount into the same SPR address, called the jackpot address, so that everybody can see at all times how big the jackpot is at the moment. (this will help get more people on board the juicier the jackpot looks)
  Preferably NO human being is in control of this jackpot address. (So this must be some sort of scripted address whose private key is never known to anybody (its creation was merely triggered by a dev), and this scripted address somehow waits for somekind of event to be triggered.   )
• 3) There is some kind of fancy mechanism that allows to access the money in the jackpot address by using a privatekey (for an address that starts with SatoshiNakamoto) combined with the privatekey for the pay-in-address that proves you payed 500 SPR into the jackpot.

Point 2) and 3) is the hard part. This is not trivial.

This is the only way this would work in a decentralized trustless way, and the cost to set this up is NOT virtually nil.
I don't even know if mechanisms for 2) and 3) exist at the moment?  

This would require extending the blockchain's script language if I am not mistaken. Or "Servicenodes", which is the answer to all questions anyway. lol

[georgem]

"Find Satoshi Nakamoto" is certainly a great idea

but we can't make it work as it is.

This all ties back into what the servicenode API should help people accomplish

Creating schemes of this sort

1) setup a goal with a few rules
2) let the wallet scan the code for logical errors, send to other nodes
3) if miners validation also says "ok" embed this as "pattern code" into the blockchain
4) use this to instruct servicenodes that will "run the scheme"
5) $$$

the one who creates "pattern code" isn't even required to be a servicenode operator.

he/she will only be required to pay a certain fee (that will go to the servicenodes), maybe depending on how complex the "pattern code" is.

BTW, I call it "pattern code" because of that PDF article called "A Pattern Language for Overlay Networks in Peer-to-Peer Systems."

it's all about patterns for sure