[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything (decentralized blockexplorer coming)

[coins101]

.....
It needs to work something like this:

• 1) Everyone who wants to participate should not have any control over the 500 SPR anymore. He can't even take the money back.
  He can just prove later that he has control over the address he used to pay the 500 SPR.
• 2) Everybody will have to pay that amount into the same SPR address, called the jackpot address, so that everybody can see at all times how big the jackpot is at the moment. (this will help get more people on board the juicier the jackpot looks)
  Preferably NO human being is in control of this jackpot address. (So this must be some sort of scripted address whose private key is never known to anybody (its creation was merely triggered by a dev), and this scripted address somehow waits for somekind of event to be triggered.   )

...

Ah, ok. I think this is my bad.

Having to send 500 SPR to an address and not being able to get access to it again, plus having the built up funds used to create a payout, that's a lottery. We can't do that:

According to 12 USCS § 25a , “lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means

By asking people to put aside their coins to participate, they keep control of their money. They can take the money out at any stage, but then they are out of the game, even if they find the van gen. We cannot ask people to pay 500 SPR to build up the prize fund, but we can ask them to put them up as collateral, but they have 100% control at all times.

My suggestion relies on some of the game theories of lotteries, but it is not a lottery.  The coinbase is used to build up the stake, in BTC. If its in SPR, no one will participate.

The few miners we have at the moment won't care about losing 1%.

The higher the build-up of BTC funds from the coinbase, the more people will want to play.  You are using 1% of the coinbase for x period of time, to generate demand for SPR, and you are doing it ahead of ServiceNodes coming on stream.

The maths behind finding private keys means that someone will find the winning address if the public key is short enough that it can be found in a reasonable time.  What that reasonable time is, is one of the questions.

[georgem]

Ah, ok. I think this is my bad.

Having to send 500 SPR to an address and not being able to get access to it again, plus having the built up funds used to create a payout, that's a lottery. We can't do that:

According to 12 USCS § 25a , “lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means

I see, I didn't even think about the legal problems yet.
Good thing we have you in our team.

[coins101]

Ah, ok. I think this is my bad.

Having to send 500 SPR to an address and not being able to get access to it again, plus having the built up funds used to create a payout, that's a lottery. We can't do that:

According to 12 USCS § 25a , “lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means

I see, I didn't even think about the legal problems yet.
Good thing we have you in our team.

Hey, no worries. I thought about them. lol.  That's why I liked this van gen approach. You get the benefits of lottery motivation, without being a lottery.

We can actually call it a service. Find this address, we'll pay you x.

[georgem]

The coinbase is used to build up the stake, in BTC. If its in SPR, no one will participate.

The few miners we have at the moment won't care about losing 1%.

This is centralized talk, it's not up to you or me to decide what other people care about.

This is a no-go!

The higher the build-up of BTC funds from the coinbase, the more people will want to play.  You are using 1% of the coinbase for x period of time, to generate demand for SPR, and you are doing it ahead of ServiceNodes coming on stream.

The maths behind finding private keys means that someone will find the winning address if the public key is short enough that it can be found in a reasonable time.  What that reasonable time is, is one of the questions.

I think we are going to need servicenodes (that have the ability to access supervised bitcoin nodes) to make this work.
Not only because this will obviously add value to SPR, but because it will help us creates schemes ("pattern codes") that are not required to be debased in SPR, but can also use BTC (etc) in their program logic.

[coins101]

Ok, I give up. I've thought about it.

What does an SPR vanity gen address competition have to do with Bitcoin nodes?

[georgem]

Ok, I give up. I've thought about it.

What does an SPR vanity gen address competition have to do with Bitcoin nodes?

in your own words:

The coinbase is used to build up the stake, in BTC. If its in SPR, no one will participate.

Maybe I read you wrong here.

[coins101]

Ok, I give up. I've thought about it.

What does an SPR vanity gen address competition have to do with Bitcoin nodes?

in your own words:

The coinbase is used to build up the stake, in BTC. If its in SPR, no one will participate.

Maybe I read you wrong here.

Hmm. I'm not sure.

My suggestion is to offer the bounty for finding a Satoshi van gen in Bitcoins. So yes, we would need to sell SPR to buy BTC to build up the prize fund. If you offer people SPR at this stage, no one will participate.

People will do almost anything to get hold of BTC.

I'm guessing most of our current miners dump their coins for BTC. We would be doing the same, only we would be building up a fund, to encourage people to buy more SPR as collateral, so we should end up net positive on all the SPR dumping for BTC from the mining rewards.

We just need a Bitcoin wallet with multi-sig and we can hand over some keys to escrow.

[coins101]

In short: "show me the money"

....
in the famous words used by many ...

SHOW ME THE MONEY !!! ...

ahem - now back to work ...

#crysx

.......

i actually didnt think you were serious ...

not because of the money ... but because it is almost an impossibility to get an address that EXACT - even with a hoard of supercomputers - in any short period of time ...

i would get a 4core vps and have it running 24 / 7 ... maybe 70 of them ...

seriously ... that vanitygen address is SO difficult - but would be highly prized i guess ...

im not that interested in vanity addresses and such - but would be worth having a go ...

this will be interesting ...

#crysx

Such a prize would definitely pique my interest 

[MrSpace]

Show me these ServiceNodes !

Don't just roadmap all these ideas months after you promised Masternodes made for SPR with the second dev.

Vanitygen is fun but for how long for.... You will never find SatoshiNakamoto !

[stonehedge]

Show me these ServiceNodes !

Don't just roadmap all these ideas months after you promised Masternodes made for SPR with the second dev.

Vanitygen is fun but for how long for.... You will never find SatoshiNakamoto !

Hiya bump bitch.

No promises on timescales were made.  Better to do things once and properly than release things before they are ready.

Be sure to check back soon.

[CHAOSiTEC]

actually, i do think it is possible to do it with current coinbase scripting, wait for event like winner pays in x amount to SatoshiNakamoto send amount to same address

when api is done, this could be done with a simple routine to check for x amount send to SatoshiNakamoto address, then release funds to same address, or sending address, or sign btc address with SatoshiNakamoto key but that would require a modification to the van gen to deal with that part, else we end up poluting the blockchain more than needed.

[entropycoin]

I think it's unfortunate that after all this time instead of launching servicenodes on testnet the main topic of discussion is a gimmicky lottery with no worthwhile application

[stonehedge]

I think it's unfortunate that after all this time instead of launching servicenodes on testnet the main topic of discussion is a gimmicky lottery with no worthwhile application

Georgem is busy preparing the next round of testnet.  In the meantime, there is no harm in talking through ideas.

[defunctec]

Surely we are due another update?

Last I heard, georgem was making a blockex? I'm sure all his time is going to be spent doing that until he starts on coding SN's.

If work on SN has started, what's the current progress?

Where is the core update upto?

It'd be nice so see weekly updates, with information coming directly from the devs.

[CHAOSiTEC]

Surely we are due another update?

Last I heard, georgem was making a blockex? I'm sure all his time is going to be spent doing that until he starts on coding SN's.

If work on SN has started, what's the current progress?

Where is the core update upto?

It'd be nice so see weekly updates, with information coming directly from the devs.

if you look at the last roadmap, core was put in october range...


and one page ago, which isnt long time since:

Lol, I go into the office for one day and suddenly we're running a lottery?  

I reckon its a neat idea once we get PoBN up and running and have some PR time to play with while the techie-gods work on the API

lol.

No. We are 100% not running a lottery.

This is van gen: finding SatoshiNakamoto1

The process of finding Satoshi, using percentage of mining rewards and using collateral just happens to have some similar dynamics to lottery game theory.

Repeat (for the benefit of the judge and the gaming authorities) - we are not running a lottery.

I generally like your idea, but it needs some more brainstorming.

I think this would be a good case for a separate testing round (separate blockchain with adjustment to experiment what it would take to run "this lottery" - I know it's the wrong word.)...
... and if successful we can create the "find satoshi nakamoto" - coin. But I would never advocate to put all this into spreadcoin.
Taking 30% Mining reward from spreadcoin is reserved for servicenodes, and nothing else. We can't just start subsidising every side project by taking from the miners.
Upcoming Servicenodes are the only exception to that rule.

I am still preparing everything for the upcoming testnet storm, please stay tuned everybody.

[stonehedge]

I agree we need to get better with comms. Even if we are posting the info we aren't doing it in a clear and consistent way.

Coins101's PowerPoint updates are fine but people expect regular self promotion on BCT.

Whilst we'll never be a coin that tries to build on promises rather than results, the Spreadcoin team need to find a happy balance. More people are watching this thread than we realise. Maybe we need to spend a bit less time on Slack and play to the crowd a bit.

[stonehedge]

Whilst on the subject of self promotion, I had a call from somebody who I used to facilitate off exchange sales of Darkcoin for. I'm not prepared to sell any of my SPR and this person doesn't use exchanges (I know).

In the unlikely event that somebody wants to sell 100k SPR at spot price please PM me. They'll pay in € or £ but won't do BTC.

[coins101]

actually, i do think it is possible to do it with current coinbase scripting, wait for event like winner pays in x amount to SatoshiNakamoto send amount to same address

when api is done, this could be done with a simple routine to check for x amount send to SatoshiNakamoto address, then release funds to same address, or sending address, or sign btc address with SatoshiNakamoto key but that would require a modification to the van gen to deal with that part, else we end up poluting the blockchain more than needed.

Neat idea.

However, the only reason I'm going to be a dog with a bone about this is because of the collateral requirement to participate in the finding Satoshi van gen adventure.

COLLATERAL

To participate you need to send 500 SPR with a signed message to say that you are participating. Can we automate the validation of finding satoshi van gen with someone who has complied with the collateral requirements?

Remember, if you set-up the collateral and then remove all the coins, you don't get the prize fund, even if you go on to find the correct van gen.

NETWORK EFFECT

I've been thinking about ways to create the network effect with this van gen idea.

So far, I'm leaning towards having the collateral reduce when the price of SPR reaches a certain point.  For example, when SPR reaches $1/SPR, the requirement to use 500 SPR will be $1,500. That would potentially put people off.

So why not make the collateral start at 500 SPR, but then max out at $500 or $200 equivalent in SPR. So if SPR ever reachED $50 / SPR, you would only need 10 SPR.

That way people are incentivised to help promote SPR and the van gen competition so that they can release some of their collateral. Maybe always keep a floor of 100 SPR, that way we should always have a sybil attack prevention mechanism even against long-term holders.


GIMMICK

I have also been thinking about whether this is just a gimmick. I don't think it is, provided we have the collateral requirement.

* The thing about masternodes / servicenodes is that we want people to participate who have some idea about running a servicenode. Sure we might make things easier, but people still need to have some idea about DDoS attacks, setting up VPSs, etc.

A simple van gen idea gets us a very simple way for people who are not technical at all to participate in securing our SPR network. We can say to people: "If you are participating in the van gen competition, please also ensure that you open these ports so you can help the network" - i.e. SPR will get an army of full nodes and average Joe in the street can take part, how decentralized is that!

* Then there is the network effect. As the prize fund builds up, the general media and not just the crypto media will be writing about this competition. We will get a ton of free PR. If you look at Dash, there are proposals to use some of the coinbase rewards to pay for adverts, we will get them for free.

* Then there is the data on lotteries. People spend 10 times more on lotteries than on music. That means that music is more of a gimmick than having something with lottery like features (but is not, dear judge, a lottery).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1045373.msg12040096#msg12040096

SERVICE NODES

The implicit deal with SPR is that masternodes will be created and they will get a big percentage of the coinbase rewards.

Had Mr.Spread still been around, I'm sure we would have had masterndodes up and running. So, from my point of view, miners have enjoyed extra rewards for at least 4 months.

I'd like to propose that 30% of mining rewards go to setting up this van gen competition, with that 30% reduced down as service nodes go to mainnet.

If for any reason there is a problem with the competition, we can always distribute these coins back across all the live servicenodes.

[minerpage]

I think it's unfortunate that after all this time instead of launching servicenodes on testnet the main topic of discussion is a gimmicky lottery with no worthwhile application

Marketing ideas, increasing exposure to new audiences, generating interest for the media, creating insights for developers: there's always a time and place for that. There are some great ideas being discussed while the development is ongoing.

Georgem and his team are showing commitment to the development aspect, there is progress, there is a road map, this coin is moving.

Service Nodes are almost here. Time is now to start figuring out what to do with them and how to grow the network. After that there will be an API to create applications on top of this infrastructure. Dare I say one of the most exciting concepts in the making? A brand new environment, like the app store to iPhone. The SPR Service Network for decentralized transactions and applications. I say "wow"!

Feel free to constructively contribute to the process. Time is now 

[MrZillion]

According to 12 USCS § 25a , “lottery" includes any arrangement whereby three or more persons (the "participants") advance money or credit to another in exchange for the possibility or expectation that one or more but not all of the participants (the "winners") will receive by reason of their advances more than the amounts they have advanced, the identity of the winners being determined by any means

[/quote]

I have read somewhere that Austria is one of the few places allowing giveaways like this. Didn't someone raffle away their house in Sought Africa? I could be wrong but it might be worth while exploring if this idea is to be developed. Love to see it happen!