Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[BADecker]

Atheists do not hate religion.

Speak for yourself, some of us absolutely do despise any superstition.

Pull your head out of the sand.

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[BADecker]

In the face of universal complexity as we see it, and all-pervading entropy, and the fact that everything as we know it is pre-programed, we still have people who can't even come to the simple conclusion that God exists. It's obvious that children are being, and are going to be, raised in any and every way possible.

Before this century is out, intellectual abuse [national or religious indoctrination during formative years] will be both legal crimes and deep-rooted cultural taboos. That shit ain't gonna fly in the Civilization of Reason that is coming.

I sure hope not. Science has produced some wonderful things. Why should we lose it that way?

 

[BADecker]

In the face of universal complexity as we see it, and all-pervading entropy, and the fact that everything as we know it is pre-programed, we still have people who can't even come to the simple conclusion that God exists. It's obvious that children are being, and are going to be, raised in any and every way possible.

Before this century is out, intellectual abuse [national or religious indoctrination during formative years] will be both legal crimes and deep-rooted cultural taboos. That shit ain't gonna fly in the Civilization of Reason that is coming.

I sure hope not. Science has produced some wonderful things. Why should we lose it that way?

 

Look. Since everything is pre-programmed, and since some people preach about God, isn't it fully evident from that alone, that God exists and is reaching out to unbelievers through the people who know Him? After all, He programmed their faith into them, even if it seems like he programmed unbelief into others.

In the Revelation in the New Testament in the Bible, it talks about the heavens rolling up like a scroll, at the destruction time of the universe. A guy has to have excitement in the book he is reading. Even if it is God getting excitement from the book of the universe He created (wrote/spoke).

 

[BADecker]

In the face of universal complexity as we see it, and all-pervading entropy, and the fact that everything as we know it is pre-programed, we still have people who can't even come to the simple conclusion that God exists. It's obvious that children are being, and are going to be, raised in any and every way possible.

Before this century is out, intellectual abuse [national or religious indoctrination during formative years] will be both legal crimes and deep-rooted cultural taboos. That shit ain't gonna fly in the Civilization of Reason that is coming.

I sure hope not. Science has produced some wonderful things. Why should we lose it that way?

 

Look. Since everything is pre-programmed, and since some people preach about God, isn't it fully evident from that alone, that God exists and is reaching out to unbelievers through the people who know Him? After all, He programmed their faith into them, even if it seems like he programmed unbelief into others.

In the Revelation in the New Testament in the Bible, it talks about the heavens rolling up like a scroll, at the destruction time of the universe. A guy has to have excitement in the book he is reading. Even if it is God getting excitement from the book of the universe He created (wrote/spoke).

 

Come on, now. Do you really think that a SuperGod hasn't left Himself ways to jiggle and juggle the programming of the toy universe He built for Himself, just like we might modify part of the programming in a running computer program?

Wake up! Smart as we are, we are nothing when compared with/to the SuperGod.

[Tusk]

Quote from: BADecker - You have forgotten the rest of the quote... the part about how universal cause and effect show us that everything is pre-programmed. Since everything is programmed, we have no freedom of choice.

That is not true, cause and effect does not remove freedom of choice. The fact that the sun rises and sets does not preclude you from getting up or staying in bed. Cause and effect influences choice it does not dictate it.

[the joint]

As you continue to demonstrate, being an atheist apparently doesn't mean you won't be a complete jerk

Who ever told you that nonsense? Listen my child, the bruised ego I leave you with is the Toll you gotta pay to tap this Font of Wisdom, understand? A bruised ego is a cheap price for what I'm offering, and you should pay it gladly.

TLDR Suck it up princess.

Yours in Jerkery and Levity,

World Asshole Beliathon

Exhibit A:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg11715833#msg11715833

[Tusk]

The only certainty is change. Time is the forge and filter of wisdom. Reality is objective; it’s our perspective of it that is subjective and unique.

Example:

Seek the truth for it shall set you free, truth is stranger than fiction and reality is riddled with irony. Terence Mckenna’s timewave theory is vindicated by the blockchain, it is the tipping point in human history. "He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.' - George Orwell. This will be the blockchain, it will record history going forward and in so doing it will free society from its "chains". The genesis block was the birth of collective consciousness; satoshi nakamoto is the supernatural creator ;-)

[BADecker]

Quote from: BADecker - You have forgotten the rest of the quote... the part about how universal cause and effect show us that everything is pre-programmed. Since everything is programmed, we have no freedom of choice.

That is not true, cause and effect does not remove freedom of choice. The fact that the sun rises and sets does not preclude you from getting up or staying in bed. Cause and effect influences choice it does not dictate it.

I don't exactly disagree with you.

In science and observation of workings of everything that we see in the universe, we observe nothing other than cause and effect, action and reaction.

Your getting up or staying in bed is dictated by things like the many neuron firings in your brain which cause you to make the decision the way you do. The neuron firings are determined to some extent by the electrolytes in your system. The electrolytes are determined by what you ate or drank the night before. The things you ate or drank were determined both by availability and by the electrolyte-neuron-induced-firing of the night before. The food composition of the food you ate and the drink you drank were determined by many factors in nature and manufacturing, all of which were determined by many other factors.

This listing is, obviously, by no means complete. Nor is it the exact way things work. There are way too many factors that control the way we think, or that move us into making decisions, to be known or listed. However, whatever the factors are, in number or quality, they are the things that move us into making every decision that we make.

The fact that we get up in the morning at the same time or in the same manner every day, is all part of the programming that has been placed into the universe, each little cause and effect, action and reaction, combining into the production of the things that we see and do.

Suppose that it takes 100 workers to build a specific skyscraper. If we lost a worker or two, the slack would be taken up by others, or replacements would be found. If we had a couple too many workers, the jobs of some might become easier, or the extras would be pulled off the job. The building would wind up being built, the end result being just the same as it would have been with more or with fewer workers. But the way it would be built would be slightly different with more or fewer workers. If there were too few workers, the building might not be built in a timely manner, the contractor might lose his contract and get sued, and maybe the building wouldn't get built at all.

The workers in the building called "your choices" are the electrons that make up the neuron firing in your brain. If there are more, you might get up with more enthusiasm. If there are too few, you might not get up at all. The reasons for the existence of more or fewer are based on many things, which act the way they do based on other things, which act the way they do based on other things. There is no visible freedom of choice. All is programmed, going back to the Beginning.

[Tusk]

BD, yes so some factors are within our control and others not, that is what life teaches us; The humility to try change the things we can and accept those that we cant. But the universe gives everyone the space to do this without fear or favor. You dont have the fear it to do so. When we die nobody knows what comes next its all speculation. So accept the reality you are in.

And

Yes, if you prefer to think when you die its game over, that is YOUR perogative
 
and

Yes, if you prefer to think that when you die you are reconstituted and expressed in some other way by all means do so. All choices are our individual right, each must make up their own minds. The same way we choose with whom it is we fall in love with or what it is we like to eat....etc. Live and let live....Yada Yada YoYo

The only thing we need saving from is one anothers obsessions 

[BADecker]

BD, yes so some factors are within our control and others not, that is what life teaches us; The humility to try change the things we can and accept those that we cant. But the universe gives everyone the space to do this without fear or favor. You dont have the fear it to do so. When we die nobody knows what comes next its all speculation. So accept the reality you are in.

And

Yes, if you prefer to think when you die its game over, that is YOUR perogative
 
and

Yes, if you prefer to think that when you die you are reconstituted and expressed in some other way by all means do so. All choices are our individual right, each must make up their own minds. The same way we choose with whom it is we fall in love with or what it is we like to eat....etc. Live and let live....Yada Yada YoYo

I agree that we have some slight control... maybe even way more than I think. Here is the gist of what I am saying.

We have no observable knowledge of the way we have control. In all science and observation, and even logic, we don't see any control of choice.

Do you want to say that you have control of some aspects of your choices? You do. But everything that we see in nature and science, EVERYTHING, says and shows that we don't have any control. We only have the illusion of control. Freedom is only an illusion.

[Tusk]

What you advocating is, reality is an illusion. I don't buy that.

[BADecker]

What you advocating is, reality is an illusion. I don't buy that.

Not at all. What I am saying is that the things that we often conclude to be reality from our observations of the universe, those are the illusion.

[Tusk]

Everything we experience is reality, this is true for for everybody. How we make sense of our experiences and try to communicate it is subjective. That's why the sciences have been developed to try and distill an essence of what is common about or experience of it.

[the joint]

What you advocating is, reality is an illusion. I don't buy that.

I'd like to weigh in, here:

What is "reality" or "real" is inherently linked to a theory of what "real" is.  For example, if I say "this apple is real," this constitutes a theory of the apple inasmuch as it is theorized to be real.  In this case, because we could not identify the apple without our perceptions to verify its existence, the "realness" of the apple is linked to perception.  This can be said of any identfiable, "real" phenomenon -- i.e. what is "real" is a theory of something based upon how it is perceived.

[BADecker]

Everything we experience is reality, this is true for for everybody. How we make sense of our experiences and try to communicate it is subjective. That's why the sciences have been developed to try and distill an essence of what is common about or experience of it.

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences.

Simply because we have experience doesn't mean that we have freedom of choice, or free will. Riding a roller coaster can be a huge experience. But we don't have anything at all to do with the experience-producing part of it. It simply happens to us.

If you want to say that getting on the roller coaster in the first place was a free choice, consider all the things in life that prompted us to do it.

Again, I don't claim that there is no free will or free choice. What I claim is that without God, evidence of such becomes nothing... at least at this stage of our understanding.

[Tusk]

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

[Tusk]

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

[BADecker]

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

Defining God isn't easy, and will never be complete. But to see a glimpse... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg11869484#msg11869484.

[BADecker]

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg11864476#msg11864476

[the joint]

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

Objective reality exists in relation to subjectivism.  The root word of rationale is "ratio," and all rational statements are made meaningful through a subject-object relationship, or 'ratio.'  This is evident, for example, just by looking at our language.  Imagine I write a sentence, "Apple." Okay...apple what?  An apple is an object, but stating "apple" alone is entirely meaningless and does not convey any sort of a rational thought.  Now, if I instead say "this apple (subject) is red (objective classifier)," then the objective apple is subjectivized and ascribed with an objective classifier of 'redness.'  No meaningful objective reality of any kind exists independent of co-dependence with subjectivism.

So, the cat is real at any time it is subjectivized as real (including by itself).  Objective reality always has a subjective component.  This is inescapable.