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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 899796 times)
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June 03, 2015, 05:44:39 AM
 #621


Therefore, if there is God, he wouldn't care much . . .<snip>

Do you see what you did there? You ascribe characteristics to a God by way of your definition of 'knowing' WhatGodWants(tm).

I don't ascribe anything, it is no more than your wishful thinking. The only thing I actually said (and meant) in this aspect is that for Pascal's Wager to hold (make sense), God should care whether people believe in him or not (by whatever name).

You don't get to dismiss the fact that "if there is God, he wouldn't care much . . ." is *absolutely* stating a claim towards knowing WhatGodWants(tm). "he wouldn't care much . . ." - What else is that if it isn't you specifying a characteristic of your god?

And for caring God you'd better have one...
- Again, you are asserting something you cannot possibly define. You are still claiming that a god that seeks worship will accept the worship of any god, but for you to claim such you would have to base your reasoning on particular scripture, entirely ignoring the fact that numerous religious texts are very clear on the dire need to *only* worship their specific god with their proscribed characteristics.

If you aren't citing scripture in order to assert WhatGodWants(tm) then you are simply pulling this claim out of your ass, which makes it equally arbitrary and fallacious because one can just as easily define a 'caring' god as one which cares only that those worshiping it are 'good' people as you can claim his 'caring' be only measured by requiring that people worship 'Him' through the worship of any god, even those whose claimed values are in direct conflict with each other. It is nonsensical.

Do you see, you can't claim to only be citing the logic of Pascal's Wager being based on a god who cares about being worshiped if you are also claiming *anything* more about that state of 'caring'. So the *only* additional 'data' (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense) claimed towards WhatGodWants(tm) in terms of expanding on the definition of what 'He' cares for, is that written in multiple 'Holy' texts and, as explained, much of it is in direct conflict with each other, which means that if a god can't be bothered to communicate clearly and unambiguously as to what he requires of us then he probably doesn't care about being worshiped and if you want to claim he *has* communicated such then you are back to citing conflicting scripture or arbitrary opinion, both of which are meaningless when seeking to construct a cohesive platform to build your argument on.

In fact, I already got tired of your demagogy

Yeah, funny how people who have their assertion exposed for the fallacious reasoning it is frequently cite how tired they are of those who successfully argue against their position.

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June 03, 2015, 10:05:07 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 10:22:40 AM by deisik
 #622


Therefore, if there is God, he wouldn't care much . . .<snip>

Do you see what you did there? You ascribe characteristics to a God by way of your definition of 'knowing' WhatGodWants(tm).

I don't ascribe anything, it is no more than your wishful thinking. The only thing I actually said (and meant) in this aspect is that for Pascal's Wager to hold (make sense), God should care whether people believe in him or not (by whatever name).

You don't get to dismiss the fact that "if there is God, he wouldn't care much . . ." is *absolutely* stating a claim towards knowing WhatGodWants(tm). "he wouldn't care much . . ." - What else is that if it isn't you specifying a characteristic of your god?

I see you are still desperately trying to catch at any opportunity to switch focus from the essence of Pascal's Wager to insignificant details. To end this meaningless debate I rephrase my initial post as following:

Quote
But since its fun let me initiate my own brand of 'why do' topic.

WHY DO ATHEISTS (like me) HATE RELIGION ?

Atheists hate religion since in most religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc) God cares whether people believe in him or not, and rewards believers (Hebrews 11:6 - "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him"), at the same time inexorably punishing those who do not believe (Romans 1: 18 - "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people"). Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Haters gonna hate

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June 03, 2015, 10:45:00 AM
 #623

I see you are still desperately trying to catch at any opportunity to switch focus from the essence of Pascal's Wager to insignificant details. To end this meaningless debate I rephrase my initial post as following:


Yeah, sure thing, you go right ahead and pretend reality is how you declare it to be and that your attempt to claim theism as the 'optimum' choice in life, otherwise known as Pascal's Wager, wasn't shown by objective reasoning to be the flawed fallacy it clearly was.

Atheists hate religion since in most religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc) God cares whether people believe in him or not, and rewards believers (Hebrews 11:6 - "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him"), at the same time inexorably punishing those who do not believe (Romans 1: 18 - "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people"). Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Haters gonna hate

Hahahahaaa! Nice! You're just doing the same dumb thing and asserting something without evidence or reason.

You are declaring that atheists hate religion because theists look down on them? ROFL! Not only do you claim such, but you also threw in another arbitrary declaration, namely, that atheists envy theists?

Do you even logic?

What grounds do you declare atheists to be envious of theists?

As for the majority>minority of theists and atheists, you are completely failing to account for the fact that atheist put no value whatsoever in theist fairy tales and certainly not in theist opinion derived from these fairy tales, so why would we care that theists are known to consider themselves as superior to atheists when we know damn well it is a delusional state of mind they are living in?

We hate religion because it poisons everything. Everything. No need to dream up convoluted ideas where you try to crowbar some kind of absurdity about how we supposedly envy theists for their faulty thinking simply because there's so fucking many of them.



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June 03, 2015, 10:51:12 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 11:03:45 AM by deisik
 #624

I see you are still desperately trying to catch at any opportunity to switch focus from the essence of Pascal's Wager to insignificant details. To end this meaningless debate I rephrase my initial post as following:


Yeah, sure thing, you go right ahead and pretend reality is how you declare it to be and that your attempt to claim theism as the 'optimum' choice in life, otherwise known as Pascal's Wager, wasn't shown by objective reasoning to be the flawed fallacy it clearly was.

Atheists hate religion since in most religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc) God cares whether people believe in him or not, and rewards believers (Hebrews 11:6 - "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him"), at the same time inexorably punishing those who do not believe (Romans 1: 18 - "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people"). Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Haters gonna hate

Hahahahaaa! Nice! You're just doing the same dumb thing and asserting something without evidence or reason.

You are declaring that atheists hate religion because theists look down on them? ROFL! Not only do you claim such, but you also threw in another arbitrary declaration, namely, that atheists envy theists?

Do you even logic?

What grounds do you declare atheists to be envious of theists?

That was sarcasm, I knew that you would catch at this with a knee-jerk reflex, totally devoid of thought. On a more serious note though, hate is often a flip side of envy, envy which cannot be gotten rid of by reason or faith. The latter atheists apparently lack, so you guess...

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June 03, 2015, 10:54:25 AM
 #625

Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Fallacy here, false dilemma. There are other outcomes, such as the repercussions of discovering you foolishly believed in a false God all along, instead of the real one as explained a few pages back.

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June 03, 2015, 10:57:31 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 11:13:12 AM by deisik
 #626

Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Fallacy here, false dilemma. There are other outcomes, such as the repercussions of discovering you foolishly believed in a false God all along, instead of the real one as explained a few pages back.

As I said previously, this doesn't make the atheist strategy of non-believing losing less. Is it really so hard to understand? In fact, it doesn't even matter, since the question is why atheists hate religion, but not which God is statistically more authentic...

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June 03, 2015, 11:01:57 AM
 #627

Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Fallacy here, false dilemma. There are other outcomes, such as the repercussions of discovering you foolishly believed in a false God all along, instead of the real one as explained a few pages back.

As I said previously, this doesn't make the atheist strategy of non-believing losing less. Is it really so hard to understand?

Only God can answer that one.
We can only wildly speculate the better strategy.

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June 03, 2015, 11:05:54 AM
 #628

well I think it is the same reason as to why religious people hate athiests, they believe they are wrong. .;
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June 03, 2015, 11:06:55 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 11:36:01 AM by deisik
 #629

Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Fallacy here, false dilemma. There are other outcomes, such as the repercussions of discovering you foolishly believed in a false God all along, instead of the real one as explained a few pages back.

As I said previously, this doesn't make the atheist strategy of non-believing losing less. Is it really so hard to understand?

Only God can answer that one.
We can only wildly speculate the better strategy.

Even if there is a perverted God that rewards only those who do not believe in him and punishes the rest of the crowd, atheists would still ultimately be pathetic losers, since all their beliefs and dogmas would turn out to be false in the end...

Wtf, now I understand why they are so hateful, spiteful, and overall vicious deep inside

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June 03, 2015, 11:33:08 AM
 #630

That was sarcasm, I knew that you would catch at this with a knee-jerk reflex, totally devoid of thought.
:rolleyes: Sure, of course it was, totally devoid of thought, you know, what with the fact I pointed out how vapid an assertion it was, which it is but you still thought you'd get away with putting it in there.

On a more serious note though, hate is often a flip side of envy, envy which cannot be gotten rid of by reason or faith. The latter atheists apparently lack, so you guess...

No thanks, I'm still full from your earlier word-salad. This is just more artery-clogging baseless cheesiness.

Pro-tip: You know how theists totally like it when people make bold assertions which sound all very godly and serious and deep and mystical and spiritual and. . .shit . . .? Well theists might be able to get away with routinely pulling it out of their ass to the sound of much murmured approval from other theists, but we atheists tend to like our reality intellectually honest.


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June 03, 2015, 11:40:10 AM
 #631

Even if there is a perverted God that rewards only those who do not believe in him and punishes the rest of the crowd, atheists would still ultimately be pathetic losers, since all their beliefs and dogmas would turn out to be false in the end...

Wtf, now I understand why they are so hateful, spiteful, and overall vicious deep inside

HAHAHAHAaaaaAAAaAAAA!!!

:standing-applause:

Bravo! That truly is *the* single most telling post you have made so far.



Let the hate flow through you . . .

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June 03, 2015, 11:51:42 AM
 #632

Therefore, in the eyes of the followers of these religions (majority), atheists (minority) appear to be total losers, since if their God exists, the believers will be rewarded, if he doesn't, they lose nothing, which instigates hate and envy from the atheists (since the latter psychologically can't ignore the opinion of the majority, whether they like it or not)...

Fallacy here, false dilemma. There are other outcomes, such as the repercussions of discovering you foolishly believed in a false God all along, instead of the real one as explained a few pages back.

As I said previously, this doesn't make the atheist strategy of non-believing losing less. Is it really so hard to understand?

Only God can answer that one.
We can only wildly speculate the better strategy.

Even if there is a perverted God that rewards only those who do not believe in him and punishes the rest, atheists would still ultimately be pathetic losers, since all their beliefs and dogmas would turn out to be false in the end...

Wtf, now I understand why they are so hateful, spiteful, and overall vicious deep inside

Sounds like lots of hate and anger you have bubbling away under the surface. Perhaps have a chat with God to cool off.
Oh.... Make sure you chat with the "correct" one, avoid the false man-made ones at all cost.


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June 03, 2015, 04:11:42 PM
 #633

@deisik

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun of them.

Neither do they have any logic that can contradict the fact that all the deep scientific papers are made up of two major parts. The first part is some major kernel of scientifically proved something or other. The second part is one or more hypothetical points where the kernel might be applied. But the points in the second part often have no basis in science. They are often simply fictional wishes and desires that the scientist would like to exist, but as far as anybody knows, don't exist.

Get down to the basics. The atheists do not know that God does not exist. The evidence in the above mentioned link is but a smattering of strong evidence that suggests that God DOES exist. When people attempt to use the much weaker evidence to prove something opposite of what the much stronger evidence suggests, they are forming a religion.

There will always be question about both, the evidence that suggests that God exists, and the evidence that suggests that He doesn't. Presently, the evidence that suggests He DOES exist, blows the other right out of the water with regard to quantity and quality.

I admire the atheist who has knowledge of the things that I have said here, and yet remains an atheist. Such an atheist has strong faith. If his faith were based in the religion of God rather than the religion of atheism, he would be a powerful missionary... maybe even one who could do miracles like the Bible prophets of old.

Smiley

EDIT: In the event that you didn't understand what this has to do with why atheists hate religion, here it is.

An atheist wants religion to NOT exist so strongly, that when he is faced with the undeniable and overwhelmingly great facts that religion has to exist, he hates the whole idea of religion. And what makes him hate religion even more is when he realizes that the atheism that he spouts is based in non-reality so much more than the theism he opposes, that he, himself, is in a religion called atheism, and so he despises religion even more. Vicious cycle. The more he hates and despises religion, the more it becomes a religion for him, simply because there is far greater evidence for the existence of God than against it.

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June 03, 2015, 04:59:50 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 05:45:36 PM by Buffer Overflow
 #634

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun of them.

Interesting how you've deliberately neglected to point out that the believers in God are also calling BS to this nonsense as well. Actually everybody has! Cheesy

Is dishonestly lying by omission the only card left in your hand to play? Are you now that desperate? Really?

Tsk, tsk. All this dishonesty must be racking you up lots of black marks in Gods little book. Cheesy Oh, dear. Cheesy

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June 03, 2015, 06:03:22 PM
 #635

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun of them.

Interesting how you've deliberately neglected to point out that the believers in God are also calling BS to this nonsense as well. Actually everybody has! Cheesy

Is dishonestly lying by omission the only card left in your hand to play? Are you now that desperate? Really?


This is where you and the other atheists luck out. True believers in God - the Christians - are often more or less blind-faith believers. That is, they think that they have reason to believe in God, but they can't really put their finger on it.

The reason for this is that they don't know their religion anywhere near the way they are supposed to. Even Saint Paul, in Romans chapter 1 agrees with what I say:
Quote
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
In other words, even the Bible acknowledges the things that I say at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395.

Be glad that other Christians don't recognize this, because if they did, you atheists and agnostics would be laughed right out of town because of your stupid, willful ignorance.

The believers are saved based on their faith in God. Faith in God doesn't have anything to do with the scientific knowledge that exists or doesn't exist. It has to do with the way that God uses His Word to hold on to the hearts of the believers.

The scientific evidence that I have shown at my above link is there for you. It is there to show you and the other atheists that your atheism is based in stupidity, so that thereby you might, through its prompting, have occasion to get into the Bible, get the Word into you, so God has something to save you with.

Science saves no-one. Science is way too limited in its scope and breadth and strength to save anyone. Only God can save. The way He does it is through faith in His words, the Word, the Bible. It isn't blind faith. It is "educated" faith. You are badly mistaken in your way. If you don't change, you will ultimately destroy yourself in an everlasting, painful destruction.

Smiley

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June 03, 2015, 06:28:40 PM
 #636

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun of them.

Interesting how you've deliberately neglected to point out that the believers in God are also calling BS to this nonsense as well. Actually everybody has! Cheesy

Is dishonestly lying by omission the only card left in your hand to play? Are you now that desperate? Really?


This is where you and the other atheists luck out. True believers in God - the Christians - are often more or less blind-faith believers. That is, they think that they have reason to believe in God, but they can't really put their finger on it.

The reason for this is that they don't know their religion anywhere near the way they are supposed to. Even Saint Paul, in Romans chapter 1 agrees with what I say:
Quote
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
In other words, even the Bible acknowledges the things that I say at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395.

Be glad that other Christians don't recognize this, because if they did, you atheists and agnostics would be laughed right out of town because of your stupid, willful ignorance.

The believers are saved based on their faith in God. Faith in God doesn't have anything to do with the scientific knowledge that exists or doesn't exist. It has to do with the way that God uses His Word to hold on to the hearts of the believers.

The scientific evidence that I have shown at my above link is there for you. It is there to show you and the other atheists that your atheism is based in stupidity, so that thereby you might, through its prompting, have occasion to get into the Bible, get the Word into you, so God has something to save you with.

Science saves no-one. Science is way too limited in its scope and breadth and strength to save anyone. Only God can save. The way He does it is through faith in His words, the Word, the Bible. It isn't blind faith. It is "educated" faith. You are badly mistaken in your way. If you don't change, you will ultimately destroy yourself in an everlasting, painful destruction.

Smiley

Oh I see. The Christian God is the "correct" God.
Obviously you have studied, in depth, all the other countless false Gods to arrive at that conclusion. I mean you would of had to right?
I'm glad we sorted that one out. Now all you have to do is convince the couple of billion people in the world that disagree with you. Cheesy

I love it when BADecker starts doubting his own faith. You can always tell because he starts snapping and lashing out, like a cornered fox with nowhere to run. Funny. Cheesy

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June 03, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2015, 08:19:55 PM by the joint
 #637

@deisik

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun

You forget awfully quickly.  I referenced the exact logical fallacy(ies) you committed with regards to every single point on there.  The fact that I'm a theist and not an atheist should be especially troubling for you, then.

Not a single thing there provides a shred of evidence for God.  Zip, zero, nada.  If you forgot, I can do it all again.  

Edit:  To clarify, it's actually not so much that every point you mention is provably wrong, but rather it is impossible to prove them correct in terms of being proof of God.  You just think it's proof for God, because you say to yourself, "Oh, this looks like it makes sense!"  

It only makes sense to you because you lack the awareness to know that you are unsoundly filling in gaps which cannot be filled by the merit of the arguments you provided.  Logic doesn't work by saying, "I guess this looks good enough."  A sound argument is one that cannot possibly be overturned by any other theoretical or real consideration.  Every point you mention begs that alternative considerations be examined, and unfortunately none of these other considerations are disproved by the arguments you present.

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June 03, 2015, 11:02:47 PM
 #638

@deisik

None of the atheists has any logic that the things written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395 are false. All they can do is SAY that these things are false and make fun

You forget awfully quickly.  I referenced the exact logical fallacy(ies) you committed with regards to every single point on there.  The fact that I'm a theist and not an atheist should be especially troubling for you, then.

Not a single thing there provides a shred of evidence for God.  Zip, zero, nada.  If you forgot, I can do it all again.  

Edit:  To clarify, it's actually not so much that every point you mention is provably wrong, but rather it is impossible to prove them correct in terms of being proof of God.  You just think it's proof for God, because you say to yourself, "Oh, this looks like it makes sense!"  

It only makes sense to you because you lack the awareness to know that you are unsoundly filling in gaps which cannot be filled by the merit of the arguments you provided.  Logic doesn't work by saying, "I guess this looks good enough."  A sound argument is one that cannot possibly be overturned by any other theoretical or real consideration.  Every point you mention begs that alternative considerations be examined, and unfortunately none of these other considerations are disproved by the arguments you present.

As I have said, proof of anything exists for sure only in the presence of great joy or great pain. Anybody can take any evidence and convince himself that it isn't evidence and that it doesn't prove anything... except in the presence of great joy or great pain.

The point? In a balanced world where one looks at the evidence against God and compares it with the evidence for God, the evidence for God almost entirely outweighs the evidence against God.

I respect your freedom to believe for yourself anything that you can hold your faith in.

Smiley

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June 04, 2015, 02:29:59 AM
 #639

There doesn't have to be a god, there's no use for a god. We could all be in a multiverse, in a dimension that might not stay stable for all of time. But if your idea of god is the result of an earlier civilization that learned much more than us at this point, why would you feel the need to worship their figurehead? You can clearly see there's no works of any god in this world. No real magic can be seen. So why are people so stupid to need to latch on to a religion? Hate the stupid people that have blind faith, because that's all it can ever be. At least until the aliens come and say they are our god.

If there is a god, why did they mess up so badly in biology? Instead of coming up with the best solutions, each descendant on the tree of life had to work with what was living before them. We in essence are remolded fish. If religions thought the truth, no one would believe in a higher being. That's why we should not like religions, on top of of the evil they add to the world.

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June 04, 2015, 04:35:28 AM
 #640

So why are people so stupid to need to latch on to a religion?

When the banks scammed everyone with their financial mis-selling tactics the victims weren't stupid people. The banks were suppose to be trustworthy sound businesses, and people trusted them to make the right decisions and advice. People were lied to and stolen from.

Same with the church. It is supposed to be a trustworthy business and people naturally follow it's advice. That doesn't make them stupid.
The church tells people that xyz will happen when they die. Not might happen, they sell it as fact. Yet as discussed earlier, not a single person on the planet knows what will happen when we die. So clearly the church is lying and mis-selling.

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