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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 870328 times)
Lauda
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May 11, 2015, 02:00:47 PM
 #81

+1, David Hume and Kant had similar views. Humans are rational beings, believing in a "god" without any objective reason(Evidence) to is irrational, and disregards the entire concept of having the ability to reason and think. Theists are quite possibly the dumbest people on the planet. It's almost as if they "want" to give away their ability to reason, like mindless zombies.
I think you missed some of what Hume stated, however.  If Hume concluded that "believing in a 'god' without any [evidence]...is irrational," then he contradicted himself.

Hume rightfully pointed out that Empiricism, and therefore Science, have non-empirical, unscientific foundations.  Specifically, the assumptions that give the Scientific Method validity are entirely philosophical, e.g. how the rules of sound inference and knowledge of the limitations of inductive reasoning give validity to the assumption that we live in a Positivistic Universe, an assumption that is absolutely required for Science to work at all, and for which there is both no evidence nor a means of empirical falsification.

With regards to religion, Hume would say that a lack of evidence is not a strong enough basis (actually, it carries no weight whatsoever) to reject theism specifically because one who does would also be forced to reject the epistemological underpinnings of science itself.  Yes, it is true there is no physical evidence for God, but because there is also no physical evidence for the validity of the scientific method, then we must defer back to Philosophy to establish the validity/invalidity of both. In other words, if one can make a total scientific departure to validate scientific epistemology (note: Science is merely a philosophical subset), then why cannot one make the same departure for theism?

On a side note, it's my personal observation that the unbelievably-vast majority of religious debates are a priori invalid for the aforementioned reasons.  Atheists make bullshit claims that it is silly to believe in God due to a lack of evidence (claims which are often supported by equally-bullshit analogies like the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's Teapot which hold no weight whatsoever), and then theists, thinking that these invalid arguments are actually credible, entertain them and provide bullshit rebuttals by hopelessly trying to cite evidence that supports the existence of God.

When it comes down to it, religious debates set in an empirical context are invalid and a waste of time, and people just spew a bunch of hot air.
You're just interpreting this for your own argument. Did you base your information off of Google?  I actually have partially studies Hume and I have a book lying next to me.
Even though he wrote a lot about religion, his views seem a bit unclear. This is why it is open to interpretation. He stance was agnostic and skeptical. I'm not sure why people brought him up, he was definitely not an atheist. He did claim that reason is not up to the task to be the only guide in our life.
Believing in this "god" is irrational. I'm talking about the "gods" from the current religions. Theists are very deluded.

-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.

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May 11, 2015, 02:09:09 PM
 #82

You have done nothing good in life but just know how to abuse. See the difference between a person who isn't an atheist and a person who is.

Yes, an atheist criticizes you for posting yet another typical theist whine about how you should be respected for your belief and you respond by declaring that he has done nothing good in his life. I do see the difference quite clearly, thank you.

I don't believe in superstitions cause I am literate and not an illiterate dumb person.
Quote
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc

Seems you're not quite as literate as you believe yourself to be.



You don't seem to understand what I said. I don't believe in any religion but I believe in God (the almighty).

:triplefacepalm:

You keep telling me how literate you are, yet you didn't know the meaning of the word 'superstition' and you clearly don't know the meaning of the word 'theism' or 'theist', either.

I'm thinking you clearly believe yourself to be more intelligent than you actually are. Narcissism is prevalent among those who believe themselves to be part of some 'divine plan', so that probably explains it.

I'm open to healthy discussions

No you're not, that's dishonest. What you actually mean is that you're open to discussions that maintain undeserved respect and deference towards your infantile belief system. I'd be lying if I pretended to have respect for your belief system, which I cannot do because it is intellectually dishonest. Are you saying you want me to lie for you?

You haven't done anything good in life besides abusing that's what I meant.

LOL, seriously, that you keep quoting this as though it means something other than you generally condemning me as having done nothing good in my entire life while being utterly absent any information about my life other than the brief moment when you encountered my criticism of you for posting what is typical theist whiny bullshit about expecting respect for your almighty imagination.

There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people.

Quote from: Steven Weinberg
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

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May 11, 2015, 02:17:08 PM
 #83

-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.


Read the statement again: There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people.

When did I call atheists "bad"? You just interpreted the statement as you wanted to. You cannot be good if you are an atheist or bad if you are an atheist. You just have not to believe in doing wrong to others irrespective of your belief.

I guess atheists must be not believing in God right? That again is a belief that God doesn't exist. There's nothing wrong in that belief but just be a Good person if you believe in humanity. I don't generalize good or bad people based on their religion or their ignorant rules because there are many who believe in nothing but doing bad to others.

I know a person who doesn't believe in God and is an atheist but he believes in killing human beings and he killed a person because the person was mentally unstable and dropped his paint bottle. He kept beating him up till he died bleeding on the stairs. No person whether or not they believe in God helped the person while dying. Now what's wrong in the belief? It was because that person who killed the other one was BAD. He believed in killing others and hence his belief of God not existing did not help in anyways.

I also know a person whose mother is a firm believer of God. Her son hung a child of 1 and a half year old on the fan because he was crying. Where did his mother's belief help in that case? Did his religion tell him to hang that innocent child on the fan? He was a BAD person and hence committed a crime.

One just cannot claim that atheists are good or bad and theists are good or bad. They want to do good/bad and hence they do it.


@cryptodevil: I don't wish to argue with you anymore as neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me. I condemned you because you abused me earlier with the F word but I guess you love using such words so go ahead as that gives you peace. The fact that you aren't sorry for the F word, it proves what kind of a person are you. I still won't abuse you no matter you use 1000s of such words because of my upbringing and education. I am still talking to you politely.

I am superstitious, I accept it, as I believe in God that I haven't seen in my life. " good people to do evil things, that takes religion." OK. I believe that person who was an atheist was supposed to be a good person earlier but he turned evil without any religion.

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May 11, 2015, 02:49:45 PM
 #84

+1, David Hume and Kant had similar views. Humans are rational beings, believing in a "god" without any objective reason(Evidence) to is irrational, and disregards the entire concept of having the ability to reason and think. Theists are quite possibly the dumbest people on the planet. It's almost as if they "want" to give away their ability to reason, like mindless zombies.
I think you missed some of what Hume stated, however.  If Hume concluded that "believing in a 'god' without any [evidence]...is irrational," then he contradicted himself.

Hume rightfully pointed out that Empiricism, and therefore Science, have non-empirical, unscientific foundations.  Specifically, the assumptions that give the Scientific Method validity are entirely philosophical, e.g. how the rules of sound inference and knowledge of the limitations of inductive reasoning give validity to the assumption that we live in a Positivistic Universe, an assumption that is absolutely required for Science to work at all, and for which there is both no evidence nor a means of empirical falsification.

With regards to religion, Hume would say that a lack of evidence is not a strong enough basis (actually, it carries no weight whatsoever) to reject theism specifically because one who does would also be forced to reject the epistemological underpinnings of science itself.  Yes, it is true there is no physical evidence for God, but because there is also no physical evidence for the validity of the scientific method, then we must defer back to Philosophy to establish the validity/invalidity of both. In other words, if one can make a total scientific departure to validate scientific epistemology (note: Science is merely a philosophical subset), then why cannot one make the same departure for theism?

On a side note, it's my personal observation that the unbelievably-vast majority of religious debates are a priori invalid for the aforementioned reasons.  Atheists make bullshit claims that it is silly to believe in God due to a lack of evidence (claims which are often supported by equally-bullshit analogies like the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's Teapot which hold no weight whatsoever), and then theists, thinking that these invalid arguments are actually credible, entertain them and provide bullshit rebuttals by hopelessly trying to cite evidence that supports the existence of God.

When it comes down to it, religious debates set in an empirical context are invalid and a waste of time, and people just spew a bunch of hot air.
You're just interpreting this for your own argument. Did you base your information off of Google?  I actually have partially studies Hume and I have a book lying next to me.
Even though he wrote a lot about religion, his views seem a bit unclear. This is why it is open to interpretation. He stance was agnostic and skeptical. I'm not sure why people brought him up, he was definitely not an atheist. He did claim that reason is not up to the task to be the only guide in our life.
Believing in this "god" is irrational. I'm talking about the "gods" from the current religions. Theists are very deluded.

-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.


I pulled this from a combination of .edu and other credible sources.  It's set in the context of his commentary on the Problem of Induction.  My point in referencing his comments wasn't in any way to discuss his personal religious beliefs, which are irrelevant to the discussion, anyway.  Rather, it was simply to correct the poster's statements that it is irrational to believe in something without physical evidence.  Adhering to this point of view must also lead one to the conclusion that it is irrational to believe in the validity of scientific epistemology.

To reach a conclusion that "believing in 'this' god is irrational" requires a philosophical basis.  Because science is a mere philosophical subset, it isn't good enough to assume it has the final say.  We need to defer to Philosophy in a broader sense to determine whether there is a way to determine what is and what is not logically necessary.  If there is a philosophical basis by you can conclude God is logically impossible, or even that it impossible to know whether God exists, then you are free to make that conclusion.  However, the reverse seems to be true, i.e. Intelligent Design is a logical necessity for reality's existence.

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May 11, 2015, 02:54:52 PM
 #85

I invite Atheist to watch this video if they have time or when they get time, Recommended.

Scientific Facts Atheists Must Know Why Islam Is The Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJzIm9v67w8
So you call a Muslim to tell me why Islam is the Truth?  Roll Eyes
How about a tl;dr version. The video is too long. I don't feel like wasting time on "scientific facts".

Yes He is Muslim, But he spoke with Reference you can check Bible chapter 1 to prove whether he is wrong or right? If you found that he wrong then let me inform here.



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May 11, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
 #86

Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

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May 11, 2015, 03:03:56 PM
 #87

Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley

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May 11, 2015, 03:07:13 PM
 #88

I pulled this from a combination of .edu and other credible sources.  It's set in the context of his commentary on the Problem of Induction.  My point in referencing his comments wasn't in any way to discuss his personal religious beliefs, which are irrelevant to the discussion, anyway.  Rather, it was simply to correct the poster's statements that it is irrational to believe in something without physical evidence.  Adhering to this point of view must also lead one to the conclusion that it is irrational to believe in the validity of scientific epistemology.

To reach a conclusion that "believing in 'this' god is irrational" requires a philosophical basis.  Because science is a mere philosophical subset, it isn't good enough to assume it has the final say.  We need to defer to Philosophy in a broader sense to determine whether there is a way to determine what is and what is not logically necessary.  If there is a philosophical basis by you can conclude God is logically impossible, or even that it impossible to know whether God exists, then you are free to make that conclusion.  However, the reverse seems to be true, i.e. Intelligent Design is a logical necessity for reality's existence.
I see. Could you please clearly state your stance towards the topic? I do not want to be mistaken. I concur; currently there is nothing that is good nor developed enough to have a final say in things.

Yes He is Muslim, But he spoke with Reference you can check Bible chapter 1 to prove whether he is wrong or right? If you found that he wrong then let me inform here.
Without a tl;dr version I'm not going to do anything.

Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley
Are you referring to dogs loving nobody except themselves? If this is the case, then this is wrong.
Or are you referring to the people?

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May 11, 2015, 03:08:02 PM
 #89

Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley

Ah, so what your saying is that we are all capable of great love and hate because that is what humans can do? And just as only some Christians hate dogs, some atheists see religion as a positive social force?  Makes sense to me.

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May 11, 2015, 03:15:15 PM
 #90

Are you referring to dogs loving nobody except themselves? If this is the case, then this is wrong.

I'm referring to the people  Undecided


Ah, so what your saying is that we are all capable of great love and hate because that is what humans can do? And just as only some Christians hate dogs, some atheists see religion as a positive social force?  Makes sense to me.

Yeah, makes sense to me too. I haven't criticized atheists for their belief but just criticized those who abuse others because of their belief.

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May 11, 2015, 03:29:16 PM
 #91

@cryptodevil: I don't wish to argue with you anymore as neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me.

I understand you perfectly well and I have conveyed sufficient proof of that understanding so, no, you can't lump me in with your ignorance as an excuse to duck out of the challenge.

I condemned you because you abused me earlier with the F word but I guess you love using such words so go ahead as that gives you peace. The fact that you aren't sorry for the F word, it proves what kind of a person are you.

No it only proves what kind of person you think I am, big fucking difference.


I am superstitious, I accept it, as I believe in God that I haven't seen in my life. " good people to do evil things, that takes religion." OK. I believe that person who was an atheist was supposed to be a good person earlier but he turned evil without any religion.

Yeah, you seem to struggle to be able to comprehend basic reasoning, which isn't much of a surprise given you are a theist, but let me give you a little pointer, if good person does something evil, then he isn't a good person. Do you get it now?

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May 11, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
 #92

Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew


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May 11, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
 #93

Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew

I'll take this one!

Ummm . . . is it because the brain-washing symbolic rituals are carried out far more intensely and regularly than with any other religion?

BTW, if 10% of the EU will be Muslim in 30 years, 70% will be atheists. It's called education.

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May 11, 2015, 03:38:13 PM
 #94

Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew

I'll take this one!

Ummm . . . is it because the brain-washing symbolic rituals are carried out far more intensely and regularly than with any other religion?

BTW, if 10% of the EU will be Muslim in 30 years, 70% will be atheists. It's called education.


your reason is too illogical, what do you mean by Brain washing? who did this brain washing?


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May 11, 2015, 03:39:13 PM
 #95

Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew
My best guess.
Islam is the most modern religion in many ways. In the last 2000 years there has been a shift toward more power for the individual. It has led to a spread of democracy and a movement away from dogmatic religion. Islam does not have priests, just people and God. Prior to the Romanization of Christianity it was also a liberation theocracy. I wonder if it was supplanted because of the addition of official state dogma by the Romans and the following kings of Europe.

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May 11, 2015, 03:41:20 PM
 #96



Yeah, you seem to struggle to be able to comprehend basic reasoning, which isn't much of a surprise given you are a theist, but let me give you a little pointer, if good person does something evil, then he isn't a good person. Do you get it now?

@bold: What should I say now when you have said what I feel and what I was trying to say for such a long time?

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May 11, 2015, 03:46:37 PM
 #97

your reason is too illogical, what do you mean by Brain washing? who did this brain washing?

Most Xtians are actually fairly open to the idea that they might be wrong, once exposed to the 'evil' that is objective reasoning and critical thinking. Muslims, however, are rarely found to even be willing to consider anything other than the fact that their particular brand of 'special' is absolutely and without doubt the 'One True Religion'(tm).

Their unwillingness to even accept when their dogma is successfully challenged is likely behind statistics that show fewer Islamic adherents losing their religion, when compared to other theists. This unwillingness requires a particularly high degree of willful ignorance, the kind that can only be achieved through conditioning a people by way of frequent regular prayer ritual.

Think of the Ultra-Orthodox Jews, the kind that bob rapidly backwards and forwards at the 'Wailing Wall' whilst reciting their magic words over and over again. That kind of conditioning is hard to shift, truly sticky brain-washing.

Islam is the most modern religion in many ways.
Sure, as long as you absolutely ignore EVERY OTHER FUCKING RELIGION that has been created since the sixth century. Scientology, anyone?


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May 11, 2015, 04:23:11 PM
 #98

I pulled this from a combination of .edu and other credible sources.  It's set in the context of his commentary on the Problem of Induction.  My point in referencing his comments wasn't in any way to discuss his personal religious beliefs, which are irrelevant to the discussion, anyway.  Rather, it was simply to correct the poster's statements that it is irrational to believe in something without physical evidence.  Adhering to this point of view must also lead one to the conclusion that it is irrational to believe in the validity of scientific epistemology.

To reach a conclusion that "believing in 'this' god is irrational" requires a philosophical basis.  Because science is a mere philosophical subset, it isn't good enough to assume it has the final say.  We need to defer to Philosophy in a broader sense to determine whether there is a way to determine what is and what is not logically necessary.  If there is a philosophical basis by you can conclude God is logically impossible, or even that it impossible to know whether God exists, then you are free to make that conclusion.  However, the reverse seems to be true, i.e. Intelligent Design is a logical necessity for reality's existence.
I see. Could you please clearly state your stance towards the topic? I do not want to be mistaken. I concur; currently there is nothing that is good nor developed enough to have a final say in things.

I'm saying a few things:

1)  Debate about God's existence cannot be about whether there is or is not physical evidence for His existence, lest it be invalid.  In the same way we defer to broader Philosophy to explore and comment upon the assumptions of Science that fall outside the scope of Empiricism, so, too, we must also defer to broader Philosophy to explore and comment upon God, an entity that by common definition/assumption also falls outside the scope of Empiricism.

2) Hume's personal religious beliefs are irrelevant. However, he is correct about the limitations of inductive reasoning and scientific epistemology, specifically in his acknowledgment of its philosophical foundations.  The implications of his commentary are all-too-often shrugged off by empiricists as impractical of consideration.  This is a huge mistake.

3) Any person who claims it is silly to believe in God without physical evidence is a hypocrite if he also believes that scientific epistemology is valid.

4) There is a correct way to approach a debate about God's existence.  Specifically, the question is one of whether God is logically implicated, logically impossible, or if it is simply impossible to know whether such a thing exists.

5) I personally think that belief in God is rational because He is logically necessary.  Specifically, I believe God exists inasmuch as Intelligent Design is the necessary mechanism by which reality exists, and I believe Intelligent Design exists inasmuch as reality is demonstrably a mental construct.

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May 11, 2015, 04:35:32 PM
 #99

Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew
My best guess.
Islam is the most modern religion in many ways. In the last 2000 years there has been a shift toward more power for the individual. It has led to a spread of democracy and a movement away from dogmatic religion. Islam does not have priests, just people and God. Prior to the Romanization of Christianity it was also a liberation theocracy. I wonder if it was supplanted because of the addition of official state dogma by the Romans and the following kings of Europe.

Yeah May be this could be also in one the reasons:

Concerning to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade and the Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.

100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam 4 females convert to Islam, Why?

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards { Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3} In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the Wife's permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30} One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life with the man who Raped You. The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
8, 6 Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)". Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?

And more
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May 11, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
 #100

Islam is the most modern religion in many ways.
Sure, as long as you absolutely ignore EVERY OTHER FUCKING RELIGION that has been created since the sixth century. Scientology, anyone?

What is the metric by which you measure the degree of modernity in a religion? Is it how recently it was created, or the extent to which they believe in 'magic?' Scientology is more "modern" in the sense that it was created more recently, but I wouldn't consider their dogmatic beliefs any more modern than any other religion.


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