Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[CoinCube]

I was arguing that scriptures are fucked up.  Read before you answer.

...
Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

Christian or Jewish apologetics are the same as Muslim apologetics.  You guys ignore the scriptures and divert the attention to something else.

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


Both scriptures, the Quran and the Bible are clear on the subject. I am not sure what your objection is.

Are you confused?  Frankly, the quality of your responses has been falling considerably.  Are you ok?

You did not even try to counter my argument that destroyed the concept of free will.  Now you babble something that not all Christians follow the Bible because they do not kill gays today.  How is this remotely relevant to the discussion of the content of the scriptures?

Atheists have the easiest job in the world.  They can just open the Bible or the Quran and read.

You, on the other hand, have to resort some mental gymnastics by inventing "proper instantiation", "proper translation", "proper metaphor",
"that is not what the writers meant",  "the scriptures have to be read in the original language they were written", etc.

But the fact is that the scriptures recommend some seriously fucked shit as punishment, every 10-year old who reads it understands it, except you guys.

Admit that the scriptures are seriously fucked up so that we can move on to more important topics.

The problem we have af_newbie is not a decline in the quality of my response but a deeper fundamental divergence. We have adopted different fundamental positions regarding the nature of reality.

We both embrace the scientific method and are able to talk to each other coherently on topics related to fact and experiment. However, the conversation has now entered into the realm of the philosophical (free will vs determinism) and base principles (objective vs subjective morality) where out differences become stark and irreconcilable.

I have answered your argument about free will. You said that “If the world is deterministic, you have no control over what you are going to do next.  Your thoughts are driven by all the cause and effects.”

I replied yes that is true but also irrelevant because you are using the wrong frame of reference to analyze the situation. You are attempting to describe how the universe looks from an all knowing top-down perspective of God. We don’t live in that frame of reference.

It is possible for agents to be free, relative to the fiction that they live in, whilst wholly determined from a God’s eye view. This was demonstrated by Izbicer well over a century ago.

The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

When we speak relative to a fiction, it is true to say that the characters are free, and the meaning of the word ‘free’ doesn’t have to be contorted in the slightest; the concept of freedom is the same concept that we started with. But, when we speak about the fiction, and its writer, we make a semantic ascent, and it is no longer true to talk of the characters as having any sort of independence from the author. But, the freedom that we attribute to the characters, in their world, is a real as anything can be, and it is freedom in precisely the pre-philosophical sense of the word; no definitions have been twisted.

We are free relative to our own limited frame of reference. This makes our freedom as real as anything else in this wondrous creation we find ourselves in.

As for apologetics. I agree that the Bible and any holy text should be understood in the original language and context they were written in. As far as Leviticus 20-13 it is clear that the Ancient Israelites were commanded to assign the death penalty to homosexual acts. However, why isolate that particular passage. There were a whole host of atypical or aberrant sexual behaviors that were similarly assigned the death penalty. Homosexuality was not singled out as special or unique. The death penalty was commanded for a variaty of sexual infractions these included:

Having homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13).

Committing adultery between a man and a woman (Leviticus 20:10-12, Deuteronomy 22:22).

Being the daughter of a priest and practicing prostitution (Leviticus 21:9).

Raping an engaged female virgin (Deuteronomy 22:25).

Being male and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:15).

Being female and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16).

Having sex with your father’s wife (Leviticus 20:20).

Having sex with your daughter-in-law (Leviticus 20:30).

Having incestual sex (Leviticus 20:17).

Marrying a woman and her daughter (Leviticus 20:14).

What’s the common theme here? It is that the human sexual acts must be confined only to traditional marriage between a man and women. Anything that detached the sex act from the bedrock foundation of the family and marriage was deemed so serious that it warranted death.

We’re all these rules necessary? There is a good argument to be made that they were. A strong society is ultimately composed of strong stable family units. The survival of higher civilization in the long run ultimately depends on strong stable family units. This is especially true when that society is under existential outside threat like the ancient Israelites were.

Dennis Prager does a good job of highlighting this here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-epfgG7lI

So no I do not agree that “the scriptures are seriously fucked up”.  Picking and choosing the isolated prohibitions you personally disagree with is pointless. You take issue with Leviticus 18:22. Someone else may think incest should be ok and dislike Leviticus 20:17. A third person may believe animals are on this earth for human consumption and enjoyment and hate Leviticus 20:15.

The reality is there is not a single group of Christians in the world going around and enforcing of the death penalty for Leviticus 18:22. Why not? After all the Bible is the word of God.

The reason at least for Christians is because Christians were also instructed that that we have reached the point in our development when we need to include mercy in the evaluation of sin for we are all grievous sinners to some degree or another. That mercy should extend when possible even to violations of Biblical law.

John 8:7 , “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

You will have a hard time following the importance of this logic because you don’t believe in sin.

[af_newbie]

I was arguing that scriptures are fucked up.  Read before you answer.

...
Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

Christian or Jewish apologetics are the same as Muslim apologetics.  You guys ignore the scriptures and divert the attention to something else.

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


Both scriptures, the Quran and the Bible are clear on the subject. I am not sure what your objection is.

Are you confused?  Frankly, the quality of your responses has been falling considerably.  Are you ok?

You did not even try to counter my argument that destroyed the concept of free will.  Now you babble something that not all Christians follow the Bible because they do not kill gays today.  How is this remotely relevant to the discussion of the content of the scriptures?

Atheists have the easiest job in the world.  They can just open the Bible or the Quran and read.

You, on the other hand, have to resort some mental gymnastics by inventing "proper instantiation", "proper translation", "proper metaphor",
"that is not what the writers meant",  "the scriptures have to be read in the original language they were written", etc.

But the fact is that the scriptures recommend some seriously fucked shit as punishment, every 10-year old who reads it understands it, except you guys.

Admit that the scriptures are seriously fucked up so that we can move on to more important topics.

The problem we have af_newbie is not a decline in the quality of my response but a deeper fundamental divergence. We have adopted different fundamental positions regarding the nature of reality.

We both embrace the scientific method and are able to talk to each other coherently on topics related to fact and experiment. However, the conversation has now entered into the realm of the philosophical (free will vs determinism) and base principles (objective vs subjective morality) where out differences become stark and irreconcilable.

I have answered your argument about free will. You said that “If the world is deterministic, you have no control over what you are going to do next.  Your thoughts are driven by all the cause and effects.”

I replied yes that is true but also irrelevant because you are using the wrong frame of reference to analyze the situation. You are attempting to describe how the universe looks from an all knowing top-down perspective of God. We don’t live in that frame of reference.

It is possible for agents to be free, relative to the fiction that they live in, whilst wholly determined from a God’s eye view. This was demonstrated by Izbicer well over a century ago.

The Izbicer Rebbe and Freewill
http://www.theapj.com/the-izbicer-rebbe-and-freewill-2/

When we speak relative to a fiction, it is true to say that the characters are free, and the meaning of the word ‘free’ doesn’t have to be contorted in the slightest; the concept of freedom is the same concept that we started with. But, when we speak about the fiction, and its writer, we make a semantic ascent, and it is no longer true to talk of the characters as having any sort of independence from the author. But, the freedom that we attribute to the characters, in their world, is a real as anything can be, and it is freedom in precisely the pre-philosophical sense of the word; no definitions have been twisted.

We are free relative to our own limited frame of reference. This makes our freedom as real as anything else in this wondrous creation we find ourselves in.

As for apologetics. I agree that the Bible and any holy text should be understood in the original language and context they were written in. As far as Leviticus 20-13 it is clear that the Ancient Israelites were commanded to assign the death penalty to homosexual acts. However, why isolate that particular passage. There were a whole host of atypical or aberrant sexual behaviors that were similarly assigned the death penalty. Homosexuality was not singled out as special or unique. The death penalty was commanded for a variaty of sexual infractions these included:

Having homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13).

Committing adultery between a man and a woman (Leviticus 20:10-12, Deuteronomy 22:22).

Being the daughter of a priest and practicing prostitution (Leviticus 21:9).

Raping an engaged female virgin (Deuteronomy 22:25).

Being male and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:15).

Being female and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16).

Having sex with your father’s wife (Leviticus 20:20).

Having sex with your daughter-in-law (Leviticus 20:30).

Having incestual sex (Leviticus 20:17).

Marrying a woman and her daughter (Leviticus 20:14).

What’s the common theme here? It is that the human sexual acts must be confined only to traditional marriage between a man and women. Anything that detached the sex act from the bedrock foundation of the family and marriage was deemed so serious that it warranted death.

We’re all these rules necessary? There is a good argument to be made that they were. A strong society is ultimately composed of strong stable family units. The survival of higher civilization in the long run ultimately depends on strong stable family units. This is especially true when that society is under existential outside threat like the ancient Israelites were.

Dennis Prager does a good job of highlighting this here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-epfgG7lI

So no I do not agree that “the scriptures are seriously fucked up”.  Picking and choosing the isolated prohibitions you personally disagree with is pointless. You take issue with Leviticus 18:22. Someone else may think incest should be ok and dislike Leviticus 20:17. A third person may believe animals are on this earth for human consumption and enjoyment and hate Leviticus 20:15.

The reality is there is not a single group of Christians in the world going around and enforcing of the death penalty for Leviticus 18:22. Why not? After all the Bible is the word of God.

The reason at least for Christians is because Christians were also instructed that that we have reached the point in our development when we need to include mercy in the evaluation of sin for we are all grievous sinners to some degree or another. That mercy should extend when possible even to violations of Biblical law.

John 8:7 , “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

You will have a hard time following the importance of this logic because you don’t believe in sin.

You are doing a typical apologetic tap dance.  "Oh, well, those particular laws were given to ancient Israelites, not for us, etc."

Where are the 10 commandments?  Whom were they given to?  Why are you obeying some laws but not the others?

Because you are not a Bronze Age barbarian that is why.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews don't kill gays because of the secular laws are preventing them from doing so.  That is one of the reasons why they do not obey 'God's laws'.  Other reason might be that they are good people and ignore the Bible or Quran, as sane people in the 21st century should.

If we removed the secular laws, and go by the biblical/quranic laws only, we would have a lot of massacres on our hands.

The point is the scriptures are seriously fucked up.  They were written by barbarians for barbarians.  End of story.

Nothing to discuss, move along.

[haseeb ahmed]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong? 

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

[BADecker]

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

But Christian religious laws, and laws of many other religions absolutely tell people not to murder. What rock have you been hiding under for all this while?

[Astargath]

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

But Christian religious laws, and laws of many other religions absolutely tell people not to murder. What rock have you been hiding under for all this while?

God killed everyone with the flood.

Exodus 22:2
“If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.”

Leviticus 24:15–16
“Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death.”

Leviticus 24:17
“Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.”
 
etc. etc.

[BADecker]

^^^ You still don't get it, do you?

Everyone is dead through their flawed genetics. God offers life and salvation from their genetic flaws, through Jesus salvation. You and the pre-Flood people wanted death by not accepting God, and probably even attempting to entirely forget Him out of their lives - just like you are doing.

God simply expedited their general request a little.

However, since God owns everything, there isn't anything wrong with his murdering of anything. If you don't like that idea, you are simply showing your rebellion against your owner.

[af_newbie]

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

But Christian religious laws, and laws of many other religions absolutely tell people not to murder. What rock have you been hiding under for all this while?

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Let me stop you right there before you claim that killing is not murder.  

Gays must be killed according to your Christian/Jewish/Muslim scripture.  If this is not incitement to violence than I don't know what is.

[CoinCube]

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Let me stop you right there before you claim that killing is not murder.  

Gays must be killed according to your Christian... scripture.  If this is not incitement to violence than I don't know what is.

Factually false according to the most definitive authority in Christianity.

John 8:4 - 8:11
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.

Then he stooped down again and continued writing on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

[BADecker]

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

But Christian religious laws, and laws of many other religions absolutely tell people not to murder. What rock have you been hiding under for all this while?

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Let me stop you right there before you claim that killing is not murder.  

Gays must be killed according to your Christian/Jewish/Muslim scripture.  If this is not incitement to violence than I don't know what is.

Why don't you want to get it through your head, that many of the OT laws are governmental laws for the OT nation of Israel. Included is the Bible law you quoted, above.

If a government of today has this law, it should be obeyed. If people don't like it, they should change it, or move out. But the USA certainly doesn't have this law. And there are many European nations, and other nations all over the world that don't have this law.

However, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good law to have. It is homosexually active people who are spreading disease, not carrying out God's desires, living useless lives in their activity rather than having children, and teaching their stupid ways to the youth of today. In addition, if they are reprimanded, most of them become maniacally and vehemently and violently outspoken to the point of marching in violence. But you don't see this kind of outcry among the peaceful people who are straight, except in defense of themselves and their families from the gays.

Why is this? It's because even the highly intelligent gays are essentially brain-dead, or they wouldn't be gays in the first place.

It isn't the Christians and Jews who are violent against the gays... at least not first... but it is the gays who are violent against anybody else. Most of the straight people have moved out of San Francisco, because it has become a pig-stye of gays and druggies... who like to live in the crap they are laying down around themselves. And you like promoting this kind of thing.

No wonder you can't understand religion or God.

[CoinCube]

You are doing a typical apologetic tap dance.  "Oh, well, those particular laws were given to ancient Israelites, not for us, etc."

Where are the 10 commandments?  Whom were they given to?  Why are you obeying some laws but not the others?

Because you are not a Bronze Age barbarian that is why.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews don't kill gays because of the secular laws are preventing them from doing so.  That is one of the reasons why they do not obey 'God's laws'.  Other reason might be that they are good people and ignore the Bible or Quran, as sane people in the 21st century should.

If we removed the secular laws, and go by the biblical/quranic laws only, we would have a lot of massacres on our hands.

The point is the scriptures are seriously fucked up.  They were written by barbarians for barbarians.  End of story.

Nothing to discuss, move along.

Yes those laws were given to the ancient Israelites but the wisdom in them does apply to us. Sin is still sin. We have simply been instructed to use compassion with those struggling with sin and temper justice with mercy whenever possible. We are all sinners in need of mercy and grace.

You accuse me of doing an apologetic tap dance but the only one I see dancing around the real issues here is you. You seem unwilling or unable to face the horrible implications of your philosophy and religion.

You said you value your life tremendously but under your belief system the only thing that gives that life validity and value is the arbitrary and capricious will of the majority. That is why you are presumably ok with abortion as you believe it is the right of majority to decide if a human being is granted “human status” and the right to live.

Presumably you are fine with active euthanasia for the sick and disabled as well if the families agree to it. In some countries the mentality ill are now starting being euthanized for psychological pain. Aren’t we all better off if their just not around anymore? Great strides forward for the humanist.

https://www.lifenews.com/2015/06/22/doctor-will-kill-healthy-24-year-old-in-euthanasia-whos-thought-of-suicide-since-she-was-a-kid/

The leftist parts of the country in the USA are now allowing fully grown babies totally capable of independent survival independently of the mother be killed right up to the moment of birth. Those on the frontlines of “progress” also defend “peaceful” euthanasia of disabled young infants.  The world is crowded already and when push comes to shove what kind of life would a sick or disabled baby have anyways? It better for everyone to speed death along say the moral relativists.

https://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/02/doctors-euthanize-650-babies-under-assisted-suicide-law-in-the-netherlands/

Who are the real Barbarians here? Certainly it’s not the Christians. The real Barbarism is being perpetrated daily on the most vulnerable of society by your fellow moral relativists.

You’ve got the Bible wrong af_newbie. It was written for Bronze Age barbarians. It is the very thing that transformed them into something slightly better. By rejecting it you are not advancing moral progress as you believe but helping take society a great stride backwards in barbarism.

The evidence for this is all around you. Open your eyes set aside your preconceived notions for a moment and look.

[af_newbie]

You are doing a typical apologetic tap dance.  "Oh, well, those particular laws were given to ancient Israelites, not for us, etc."

Where are the 10 commandments?  Whom were they given to?  Why are you obeying some laws but not the others?

Because you are not a Bronze Age barbarian that is why.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews don't kill gays because of the secular laws are preventing them from doing so.  That is one of the reasons why they do not obey 'God's laws'.  Other reason might be that they are good people and ignore the Bible or Quran, as sane people in the 21st century should.

If we removed the secular laws, and go by the biblical/quranic laws only, we would have a lot of massacres on our hands.

The point is the scriptures are seriously fucked up.  They were written by barbarians for barbarians.  End of story.

Nothing to discuss, move along.

Yes those laws were given to the ancient Israelites but the wisdom in them does apply to us. Sin is still sin. We have simply been instructed to use compassion with those struggling with sin and temper justice with mercy whenever possible. We are all sinners in need of mercy and grace.

You accuse me of doing an apologetic tap dance but the only one I see dancing around the real issues here is you. You seem unwilling or unable to face the horrible implications of your philosophy and religion.

You said you value your life tremendously but under your belief system the only thing that gives that life validity and value is the arbitrary and capricious will of the majority. That is why you are presumably ok with abortion as you believe it is the right of majority to decide if a human being is granted “human status” and the right to live.

Presumably you are fine with active euthanasia for the sick and disabled as well if the families agree to it. In some countries the mentality ill are now starting being euthanized for psychological pain. Aren’t we all better off if their just not around anymore? Great strides forward for the humanist.

https://www.lifenews.com/2015/06/22/doctor-will-kill-healthy-24-year-old-in-euthanasia-whos-thought-of-suicide-since-she-was-a-kid/

The leftist parts of the country in the USA are now allowing fully grown babies totally capable of independent survival independently of the mother be killed right up to the moment of birth. Those on the frontlines of “progress” also defend “peaceful” euthanasia of disabled young infants.  The world is crowded already and when push comes to shove what kind of life would a sick or disabled baby have anyways? It better for everyone to speed death along say the moral relativists.

https://www.lifenews.com/2015/01/02/doctors-euthanize-650-babies-under-assisted-suicide-law-in-the-netherlands/

Who are the real Barbarians here? Certainly it’s not the Christians. The real Barbarism is being perpetrated daily on the most vulnerable of society by your fellow moral relativists.

You’ve got the Bible wrong af_newbie. It was written for Bronze Age barbarians. It is the very thing that transformed them into something slightly better. By rejecting it you are not advancing moral progress as you believe but helping take society a great stride backwards in barbarism.

The evidence for this is all around you. Open your eyes set aside your preconceived notions for a moment and look.

You don't understand what I have posted so far.  What do you mean 'validate life'?  Life just is.  It does not need validation.

The majority has nothing to do with it.  Some things are true, no matter the religion or political system.

Actions that cause harm are undesirable, no matter what planet you are on.

What barbarism am I advocating?

PS. The Bible did not transform barbarians.  Secular thought and science did.  Barbarians were burning witches and scientists until the 18th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_for_witchcraft

What did the barbarians do to Giordano Bruno?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

You are simply deluded not only about your belief system but also of what actually happened in history.

[CoinCube]

...
What barbarism am I advocating?
...
You are simply deluded not only about your belief system but also of what actually happened in history.

I described immediately above the logical implications of your stated belief system as it is implemented in the world today and why I consider it a step backwards into barbarism.

In my opinion you lack a fundamental understanding of the primary drivers of progress.

Religion and Progress.

Regardless it is clear we fundamentally and wholeheartedly disagree. Ultimately we will have to let the readers decide for themselves which of our perspectives they agree with for we are clearly nowhere close to consensus nor do we appear to be trending in that direction.

[af_newbie]

...
What barbarism am I advocating?
...
You are simply deluded not only about your belief system but also of what actually happened in history.

I described immediately above the logical implications of your stated belief system as it is implemented in the world today and why I consider it a step backwards into barbarism.

In my opinion you lack a fundamental understanding of the primary drivers of progress.

Religion and Progress.

Regardless it is clear we fundamentally and wholeheartedly disagree. Ultimately we will have to let the readers decide for themselves which of our perspectives they agree with for we are clearly nowhere close to consensus nor do we appear to be trending in that direction.

Except some might argue, myself included, that religions are the source of evil in this world.

The holy scriptures are definitely evil so you might need to work a little bit more on your 'theory of progress'.

[CoinCube]

Except some might argue, myself included, that religions are the source of evil in this world.

The holy scriptures are definitely evil so you might need to work a little bit more on your 'theory of progress'.

Most of the worst religions declare any faith other then their own as the source of all evil.

Your religion is no exception.

[Astargath]

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

But Christian religious laws, and laws of many other religions absolutely tell people not to murder. What rock have you been hiding under for all this while?

Leviticus 20-13
"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Let me stop you right there before you claim that killing is not murder.  

Gays must be killed according to your Christian/Jewish/Muslim scripture.  If this is not incitement to violence than I don't know what is.

Why don't you want to get it through your head, that many of the OT laws are governmental laws for the OT nation of Israel. Included is the Bible law you quoted, above.

If a government of today has this law, it should be obeyed. If people don't like it, they should change it, or move out. But the USA certainly doesn't have this law. And there are many European nations, and other nations all over the world that don't have this law.

However, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good law to have. It is homosexually active people who are spreading disease, not carrying out God's desires, living useless lives in their activity rather than having children, and teaching their stupid ways to the youth of today. In addition, if they are reprimanded, most of them become maniacally and vehemently and violently outspoken to the point of marching in violence. But you don't see this kind of outcry among the peaceful people who are straight, except in defense of themselves and their families from the gays.

Why is this? It's because even the highly intelligent gays are essentially brain-dead, or they wouldn't be gays in the first place.

It isn't the Christians and Jews who are violent against the gays... at least not first... but it is the gays who are violent against anybody else. Most of the straight people have moved out of San Francisco, because it has become a pig-stye of gays and druggies... who like to live in the crap they are laying down around themselves. And you like promoting this kind of thing.

No wonder you can't understand religion or God.

Because straight people dont spread diseases? You are the one arguing against vaccines because you think the government and big pharma (mostly straight white men) are spreading diseases using vaccines

[haseeb ahmed]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

And what about the diseases spreading from this homosexuality thing can you justify that as well. What about AIDS, many people die every year due to this disease and you think homosexuality is right and i consider it as a murder of innocent people from this gay community. You are savages living lives without any clear rules and instructions just living it. What about rape, alcohol, child abuse, murder, terrorism and other many bad deeds from which religions stops human beings.

[af_newbie]

first of all we can not blame whole community just because of few rotten apples. And i think some of them hate religion because they think different religion are the reason of this extremism and radicalization presence in the world, which is true at all. Some people who are not following religion properly are extremist because no religion of world preach extremism.

What does the Bible or Quran say you should do with the gay people?

Religious people are the victims.  The worldview presented in the scriptures is what is wrong with religions.

Not 'few rotten apples' as you put it.  People are born into their religions and become indoctrinated as children.
What happens after that depends on who they associate with.

Religions poison your mind.  All religions are equally evil.

The issue is not with 'few rotten apples', the issue is with 'rotten scriptures'.

Religious apologetics always try to shift the blame on people, away from the scriptures, but the fact is that the scriptures are the root cause of all the problems created by religions.  Not the people who were indoctrinated into the religions of their parents.

its the laws to live, if we live without rules we are savages. Holy religious books do not stops you from any beneficial thing or action it only stops you from what is wrong and harmful for humanity.

Is killing gays wrong or not, in your opinion?

no i think its right.

Where are your morals?  You don't think murdering people is wrong?  

What the fuck is wrong with you?  Are you mentally sick?

than why you people can not hear to religious beliefs where is your freedom of speech. Why the hell you people are blaming religions for all the mess

Are you brain damaged?

Religious laws tell people to murder people for no apparent reason. That is not freedom of speech.  That is hate speech.

Religious laws incite violence.

And what about the diseases spreading from this homosexuality thing can you justify that as well. What about AIDS, many people die every year due to this disease and you think homosexuality is right and i consider it as a murder of innocent people from this gay community. You are savages living lives without any clear rules and instructions just living it. What about rape, alcohol, child abuse, murder, terrorism and other many bad deeds from which religions stops human beings.

Religion does not stop those things.  If anything, it encourages it and/or supports it.

BTW, you can get HIV on your next visit to the dentist.  HIV is spread through the exchange of bodily fluids, you ignoramus.

You are a barbarian.  Do you think you stand on the higher moral ground with your 6th-century wisdom?

You are ignoring centuries of scientific and technological progress we have made as a human race.

You are locked in a time capsule. 

[af_newbie]

Except some might argue, myself included, that religions are the source of evil in this world.

The holy scriptures are definitely evil so you might need to work a little bit more on your 'theory of progress'.

Most of the worst religions declare any faith other then their own as the source of all evil.

Your religion is no exception.

My religion?  WTF?  Talk about delusional.

Not playing sport is not a sport.

[BADecker]

^^^ You are so good. After all, whatever religion a person has, he dies. So, if a person has a religion of selfishness, he still dies.

The trick is finding a religion that allows one to live forever. Obviously, such a religion isn't going to be in this life. Even scientifically, there is too much entropy involved in the universe, to keep the complexity of life from doing anything other than breaking down into death.

This is where God comes in to offer Jesus salvation. And that is what atheists hate. Why do they hate this? They want a religion where they are their own gods, to make their own salvation. Many atheists are dead from this already. Atheism is simply another false religion.