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Author Topic: bitfloor needs your help!  (Read 91931 times)
ErebusBat
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September 04, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
 #121

Thank you for allowing ACH withdrawals.

Could you please allow trading to resume? Then the people who really want to get out will be able to sell their bitcoins (for a fraction of their price outside of bitfloor). And people who are speculating that things will turn out will be able to buy up those bitcoins and potentially make money.

I think this will reduce the amount of customer discontent.

The problem with this is that there isn't enough coins to cover all (any?) withdrawal requests.

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September 04, 2012, 08:34:22 PM
 #122

Sorry to hear about that.
If security is verified by a trusted 3rd party I'd be interested in bonds should you choose to go that way.

+1
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September 04, 2012, 08:38:55 PM
 #123

Thank you for allowing ACH withdrawals.

Could you please allow trading to resume? Then the people who really want to get out will be able to sell their bitcoins (for a fraction of their price outside of bitfloor). And people who are speculating that things will turn out will be able to buy up those bitcoins and potentially make money.

I think this will reduce the amount of customer discontent.

The problem with this is that there isn't enough coins to cover all (any?) withdrawal requests.

People can withdraw USD.

Say, I had 100 BTC sitting on bitfloor before the hack. You had 100 USD. I give you the claim to my BTC, you give me your USD. I withdraw your USD (since that part was not compromised, right?). You have the claim to the 100 BTC. If, at some point in the future, some or all BTC will be paid out, you will get paid for that claim. If not, you lose. But you went in knowing that it was speculative. So we're both happy (or happier).
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September 04, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
 #124

Thank you for allowing ACH withdrawals.

Could you please allow trading to resume?

Right now, any USD withdrawals are subject to the funds being clawed back if BitFloor is insolvent.    So someone trading and then withdrawing bitcoins is better off (as bitcoin reversals are not reversible) than the party that withdrew USDs.

I hope for Roman's sake he either comes up with sufficient capital or if BitFloor is insolvent he gets legal advice before processing a single withdrawal.

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September 04, 2012, 08:52:02 PM
 #125

Please note that I have taken the website offline. I am consulting legal council about the current situation and will post once I have more details. I want to make sure the matter is handled appropriately given the financial situation the exchange is currently in.

The website was causing too much confusion in the current form and once I have more details I will post a very clear message for all users.
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September 04, 2012, 08:54:49 PM
 #126

Crap, my entire bitcoin holdings down the drain (only 24BTC but still). And to think I was going to withdraw it all yesterday but procrastinated..

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September 04, 2012, 08:59:20 PM
 #127

Maybe if he hired a team of security experts *cough*  Wink or maybe not...
With what money? Bitfloor was netting 0.3% per transaction, and its monthly volume was like 60k BTC. So it was profiting 180 BTC per month. That's not enough to hire even one security expert, let alone a whole team.
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September 04, 2012, 09:07:54 PM
 #128

Personally didn't have enough bitcoins with BitFloor to warrant me pursuing this myself.  

I would be surprised that nobody else cares though.

Technically you are correct.  However I can verify that Roman is in regular contact with his largest depositors, and while I cannot speak for all of them, I do believe this will be resolved without a bankruptcy.  give the guy a chance to make some calls and look at his options to bring in capital.

I am not sure if I could call myself his largest depositor, but I was trading on bitfloor regularly until the incident happened and I second opinion that he always acted in good faith so far (as far as I could tell), and he deserves a second chance

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September 04, 2012, 09:08:19 PM
 #129

Maybe if he hired a team of security experts *cough*  Wink or maybe not...
With what money? Bitfloor was netting 0.3% per transaction, and its monthly volume was like 60k BTC. So it was profiting 180 BTC per month. That's not enough to hire even one security expert, let alone a whole team.

I know. Running an exchange with these financials is untenable. They should team up and go on IPO in order to get proper server infrastructure and staff, and ramp up to cover cost.

If they can't raise enough they shouldn't be running an exchange IMO. The same thing would happen. The standards for exchanges cannot be lowered this much, people expect their money not to go away and solvency to cover possible eventualities.

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September 04, 2012, 09:08:31 PM
 #130

Maybe if he hired a team of security experts *cough*  Wink or maybe not...
With what money? Bitfloor was netting 0.3% per transaction, and its monthly volume was like 60k BTC. So it was profiting 180 BTC per month. That's not enough to hire even one security expert, let alone a whole team.

pretty sure that was a dig on bitcoin consultancy

if not, it should be taken as one
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September 04, 2012, 09:10:06 PM
 #131

pretty sure that was a dig on bitcoin consultancy

if not, it should be taken as one

That as well  Grin

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September 04, 2012, 09:12:38 PM
 #132

pretty sure that was a dig on bitcoin consultancy

if not, it should be taken as one
I don't know anything about "bitcoin consultancy," but I do work in the network security industry, and I will tell you that security experts make six figures (USD).
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September 04, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
 #133

Please note that I have taken the website offline. I am consulting legal council about the current situation and will post once I have more details. I want to make sure the matter is handled appropriately given the financial situation the exchange is currently in.

The website was causing too much confusion in the current form and once I have more details I will post a very clear message for all users.
This is the best option for you. Given the size of the loss (assuming the courts system would hold up a value for the BTC lost if action was taken against you), you're looking at a huge risk if you handle things inappropriately and any one of your users files any sort of legal action against you. We appreciate the notice, but you need to cover your butt, especially if you're in the US. At current exchange rate, a loss of a quarter million U.S. dollars worth of a commodity is gigantic and definitely warrants legal council on how to proceed.

You seem like a nice guy and I really appreciated the service when it was running before all this. Assuming you're not the perpetrator (something that a few members might suggest in speculation), I wish you the best and hope things can be resolved. Your personally liability for this may be incredible compared to any sort of profit you may have realized for providing the service. Looking out for your personal future (not even the future of BitFloor), I would seek immediate legal council.

Sadly, if you seek GOOD legal council... Their first piece of advice would probably to take the site down with a notice and keep as quiet as possible until everything is figured out.

Best of luck.

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September 04, 2012, 09:56:10 PM
 #134

Thank you for allowing ACH withdrawals.

Right now, any USD withdrawals are subject to the funds being clawed back if BitFloor is insolvent.    So someone trading and then withdrawing bitcoins is better off (as bitcoin reversals are not reversible) than the party that withdrew USDs.

I hope for Roman's sake he either comes up with sufficient capital or if BitFloor is insolvent he gets legal advice before processing a single withdrawal.

I'm sorry your bitcoins were stolen, but please stop trying to steal my Bitfloor USD to make up for it.  

Segregated accounts are segregated.  Your endorsement of MFGlobal style account pooling is unethical and shameful!

To Hell with your communist bankster logic and the (rare) corrupt courts that recognize it.  500 years of organic common law disagree.

Those are my USD, not yours, so please STFU about clawing back what was never your property to begin with.

My USD did not magically become your property just because your bitcoins were stolen.  That's freaking asinine, you should know better!

Holding our USD without our consent is illegal.  BitFloor must start accepting and processing USD withdrawals ASAP.

"Current payment systems simply can’t compete with bitcoin’s fees, security and convenience.  Why spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on bank fees per year and lose hair as money transfers bounce from bank to bank during a wire transfer sometimes taking days to reach its destination, when it can clear within minutes and for mere pennies?  As a currency, no sovereign can match it.  As a payment system, no financial institution can compete with it.  As a distributed network, no government can stop it."     -Chris Horlacher
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September 04, 2012, 10:02:37 PM
 #135

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Those are my USD, not yours . . .

This is not at all clear under US law, which would presumably apply given Bitfloor's ties to the US.
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September 04, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
 #136

Doesn't anyone learn a goddamned thing from previous hacks? Christ.

I run http://mail-to-jail.com. I am "thebaron-btc" on Bitcoin-OTC.
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September 04, 2012, 10:03:27 PM
 #137

Holding our USD without our consent is illegal.  BitFloor must start accepting and processing USD withdrawals ASAP.
Unfortunately for those of us who had significant USD balances at Bitfloor, what others are saying is correct: Roman must now cease all activity — even activity that many of us would consider "the right thing to do" — and seek legal counsel. Assuming everything is handled sanely in the court system (a big assumption), we might expect a refund of our USD balances in a few months — either all or in part, depending on whether the balances were legally segregated and allocated, which I doubt they were.
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September 04, 2012, 10:15:22 PM
 #138

Quote
Those are my USD, not yours . . .

This is not at all clear under US law, which would presumably apply given Bitfloor's ties to the US.

Au contraire, US law is perfectly clear on the matter:

Quote
No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


"Current payment systems simply can’t compete with bitcoin’s fees, security and convenience.  Why spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on bank fees per year and lose hair as money transfers bounce from bank to bank during a wire transfer sometimes taking days to reach its destination, when it can clear within minutes and for mere pennies?  As a currency, no sovereign can match it.  As a payment system, no financial institution can compete with it.  As a distributed network, no government can stop it."     -Chris Horlacher
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September 04, 2012, 10:20:35 PM
 #139

Quote
Those are my USD, not yours . . .

This is not at all clear under US law, which would presumably apply given Bitfloor's ties to the US.

Au contraire, US law is perfectly clear on the matter:

Quote
No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Actually, that clause is exactly the problem.  Until due process of law, it is not legally clear whether any of the USD controlled by bitfloor is the property of those who had BTC on deposit, the property of bitfloor, or solely the property of those who have USD on deposit with bitfloor.  Bitfloor therefore cannot legally give USD to anyone until due process determines exactly whose property each and every $0.01 is.

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September 04, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
 #140

Oh wow I nearly missed that one.

Nice "hack"

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