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Author Topic: bitfloor needs your help!  (Read 91890 times)
davout
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December 09, 2012, 05:34:28 PM
 #681

Right, and for all of us doing dollar cost averaging increase in price means decrease in volume.
Haha, smart!

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December 10, 2012, 06:51:31 PM
 #682

I received a little over 1.7% of my held balance back.

If the exchange rate goes up much more that would make it harder on BitFloor.  It is like taking out a  BTC loan and then having to repay from dollar-based income.

No, because the transaction fees are a percentage so it scales up. The only way to make it harder or easier for Bitfloor to pay back its debts is to change its volume.

Right, and for all of us doing dollar cost averaging increase in price means decrease in volume.
OTOH, if Bitcoin goes to $1,000, you can bet on there being a lot higher volume, just because an increase in price generally correlates with an increase in interest.

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January 10, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
 #683

Apparently that 1.5% satisfied everyone. I wonder what he has in store next. It'd be nice to see some kind of indicator that "fills up" until the threshold is reached.
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January 10, 2013, 07:21:12 AM
 #684

Apparently that 1.5% satisfied everyone. I wonder what he has in store next. It'd be nice to see some kind of indicator that "fills up" until the threshold is reached.
Well, it's better than nothing in that it shows SOME progress...

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January 10, 2013, 07:31:58 AM
 #685

I keep rough tabs on the intake in terms of revenue for bitfloor to guess about how long it'll take to be paid back. I'm still a little surprised they were able to make the payment they did, but certainly grateful for it. I think outside investment might have been or be involved. On a relatively high-volume day like today, they make ~ 5BTC. It would take 13 years of days like today's to provide enough revenue to cover the debt.

My hope is that they can become an exchange to rival Gox. If they split Gox's current market share and there wasn't additional growth, then they could pay their debt with 1.5 years worth or revenue.

We'll see. One thing is certain: they need to continue to communicate and find ways to make deposits quicker/easier. I appreciate their approach, and am probably about a month of stability away from starting to use them again, though this time with a lot less BTC floating on the exchange.

I'm selling great Minion Games like The Manhattan Project, Kingdom of Solomon and Venture Forth at 4% off retail starting June 2012. PM me or go to my thread in the Marketplace if you're interested.

For Settlers/Dominion/Carcassone etc., I do email gift cards on Amazon for a 5% fee. PM if you're interested.
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January 10, 2013, 10:40:32 AM
 #686

Ok this summarizes it pretty well. Data is from: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/bitfloorUSD.html


http://i47.tinypic.com/107uql0.png

This R script will generate the above updated according to the bitcoin charts schedule. If someone knows how to host it and have it update in this thread automatically that would be cool:
Code:

#Set the estimated proportion payed back
est.payed.back<-.017

#Get Data from bitcoincharts
bitfloor<-read.table("http://bitcoincharts.com/t/trades.csv?symbol=bitfloorUSD&start=0",
                     sep=","
)

##Convert Times from Unix
times=matrix(nrow=nrow(bitfloor), ncol=6)
time.string=NULL
for(i in 1:nrow(bitfloor)){
  timeStamp<-ISOdatetime(1970,1,1,0,0,0) + bitfloor[i,1]
  
  date<-strsplit(as.character(timeStamp), " ")[[1]][1]
  yr<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][1])
  mo<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][2])
  day<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][3])
  
  ToD<-strsplit(as.character(timeStamp), " ")[[1]][2]
  hr<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][1])
  min<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][2])
  sec<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][2])
  
  times[i,]<-cbind(yr,mo,day,hr,min,sec)
  time.string<-rbind(time.string,as.character(timeStamp))
}

bitfloor<-cbind(times,bitfloor)
colnames(bitfloor)<-c("Yr","Mo","Day","Hr","Min","Sec","UnixT","Price","Vol")

##Set First Timestamp bitfloor was open after hack
post.hack.open.time<-as.numeric(head(
  bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==2012 & bitfloor[,2]==9 & bitfloor[,3]==21),],
  1)[7])

##Divide into pre and post hack data
pre.hack.bitfloor<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,7]<post.hack.open.time),]
post.hack.bitfloor<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,7]>(post.hack.open.time-1)),]

#Generate cumulative volume and fees
pre.hack.bitfloor<-cbind(pre.hack.bitfloor,
                         cumsum(pre.hack.bitfloor[,8]*pre.hack.bitfloor[,9]),
                         cumsum(pre.hack.bitfloor[,8]*pre.hack.bitfloor[,9])*.005
)
colnames(pre.hack.bitfloor)[10:11]<-c("cumUSD.Vol","cumFee")

post.hack.bitfloor<-cbind(post.hack.bitfloor,
                          cumsum(post.hack.bitfloor[,8]*post.hack.bitfloor[,9]),
                          cumsum(post.hack.bitfloor[,8]*post.hack.bitfloor[,9])*.003
)
colnames(post.hack.bitfloor)[10:11]<-c("cumUSD.Vol","cumFee")
#

##Set Timestamp of first payout
payback.time.one<-as.numeric(head(
  bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==2012 & bitfloor[,2]==12 & bitfloor[,3]==1),],
  1)[7])

##Split into pre and post payout
pre.payout.one<-post.hack.bitfloor[which(post.hack.bitfloor[,7]<payback.time.one),]
post.payout.one<-post.hack.bitfloor[which(post.hack.bitfloor[,7]>(payback.time.one-1)),]

#Generate cumulative volume and fee data
pre.payout.one[,10:11]<-cbind(
  cumsum(pre.payout.one[,8]*pre.payout.one[,9]),
  cumsum(pre.payout.one[,8]*pre.payout.one[,9])*.003
)

post.payout.one[,10:11]<-cbind(
  cumsum(post.payout.one[,8]*post.payout.one[,9]),
  cumsum(post.payout.one[,8]*post.payout.one[,9])*.003
)
#

##Get months from unix timestamps
month.labels=data.frame()
for(y in 2012:2013){
  for(m in 1:12){
    unixT<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==y & bitfloor[,2]==m),7][1]
    month.labels<-rbind(month.labels,cbind(unixT,month.name[m]))
  }
}
month.labels<-month.labels[which(!is.na(month.labels[,1])),]
month.labels<-month.labels[2:nrow(month.labels),]

##Misc
Total.Value.Stolen<-25000*tail(bitfloor[,8],1)
Total.Value.Payed<-est.payed.back*Total.Value.Stolen

##Make Plots
dev.new()
layout(matrix(c(1,1,1,3,2,2,2,4), 2, 4, byrow = TRUE))
plot(bitfloor[,7],bitfloor[,8], type="n", xaxt="n",
     xlab="Time",
     ylab="USD/BTC",ylim=c(0,(max(bitfloor[,8])+5)),
     main="Bitfloor Price History"
)
axis(1,at=as.numeric(as.matrix(month.labels[,1])),
     labels=as.character(month.labels[,2]))
lines(pre.hack.bitfloor[,7],pre.hack.bitfloor[,8], col="Green")
lines(pre.payout.one[,7],pre.payout.one[,8], col="Red")
lines(post.payout.one[,7],post.payout.one[,8], col="Blue")
abline(v=payback.time.one)

plot(pre.hack.bitfloor[,7],pre.hack.bitfloor[,11], xaxt="n",
     xlab="Time",
     ylab="Cumulative Fees Generated (USD)",
     xlim=c(min(bitfloor[,7]),max(bitfloor[,7])),
     type="l", lwd=3, col="Green",
     main=c("Bitfloor Cumulative Fee Revenue",
            "Before Hack Rate= 0.5%,   After Hack= 0.3%")
)
axis(1,at=as.numeric(as.matrix(month.labels[,1])),
     labels=as.character(month.labels[,2]))
lines(pre.payout.one[,7],pre.payout.one[,11],
      type="l", lwd=3, col="Red"
)
lines(post.payout.one[,7],post.payout.one[,11],
      type="l", lwd=3, col="Blue"
)
abline(v=payback.time.one)

barplot(c(
  Total.Value.Stolen,
  Total.Value.Payed
),
        ylab="USD", ylim=c(0,1.1*Total.Value.Stolen),
        names.arg=c(paste("Value Stolen=", Total.Value.Stolen),
                    paste("Value Payed=",Total.Value.Payed)),
        col=c("Red","Green"),
        main=paste("Estimated Payed Back=",100*est.payed.back,"%")
)

barplot(c(
  max(pre.payout.one[,11]),
  max(post.payout.one[,11])
),
        ylim=c(0,1.1*max(c(max(pre.payout.one[,11]),max(post.payout.one[,11])))),
        ylab="Fees Generated (USD)",
        names.arg=c(paste("Hack to First Payout=", round(max(pre.payout.one[,11]),1)),
                    paste("Since=",round(max(post.payout.one[,11]),1))),
        col=c("Red","Blue"),
        main="Fees Generated Since Hack"
)





It did take some effort so if anyone finds it useful: 13oEWYh1tEM6voFp2XmBoD6CCCbidkk2Xm
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January 12, 2013, 05:57:54 AM
 #687

What is this ING deposit? like a online based company has checking accounts?

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January 12, 2013, 06:19:13 AM
 #688

What is this ING deposit? like a online based company has checking accounts?

ING was the second online-only bank after NetBank, at a time when online banking was somewhat in its infancy, and the general idea was that all banks should have buildings and bank branches. By being entirely online, ING was able so save a lot of money, and offer free checking with lots of free features, as well as savings accounts with the highest interest rates in the country. They also for a time allowed you to use any ATM for free, and even reimbursed you the $1.50 ATM cash withdrawal fees many ATMs charge. Another feature was that they bragged about being able to fire their customers. In other words, if you called and complained too much, or had too many overdrafts, they would cancel your account and kindly ask you to go elsewhere. Basically, they advertised themselves as a bank for tech-savvy, responsible types.
They have gone a little bit downhill since, mainly with their savings rates and such, but I still use them as my main bank. Their ING P2P feature allows you to wire money to anyone else for free, which takes 2 to 3 days for external transfers, and instantly between ING customers. Bitfloor allows you to send them money using your ING account for free, but since they don't have an ING account themselves, it takes 3 days.

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January 12, 2013, 06:23:31 AM
 #689

What is this ING deposit? like a online based company has checking accounts?

ING was the second online-only bank after NetBank, at a time when online banking was somewhat in its infancy, and the general idea was that all banks should have buildings and bank branches. By being entirely online, ING was able so save a lot of money, and offer free checking with lots of free features, as well as savings accounts with the highest interest rates in the country. They also for a time allowed you to use any ATM for free, and even reimbursed you the $1.50 ATM cash withdrawal fees many ATMs charge. Another feature was that they bragged about being able to fire their customers. In other words, if you called and complained too much, or had too many overdrafts, they would cancel your account and kindly ask you to go elsewhere. Basically, they advertised themselves as a bank for tech-savvy, responsible types.
They have gone a little bit downhill since, mainly with their savings rates and such, but I still use them as my main bank. Their ING P2P feature allows you to wire money to anyone else for free, which takes 2 to 3 days for external transfers, and instantly between ING customers. Bitfloor allows you to send them money using your ING account for free, but since they don't have an ING account themselves, it takes 3 days.

They are now a subsidiary of Capital One, but other than that they are great.

Also, Bitfloor should get an ING account.

While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 12, 2013, 05:54:31 PM
 #690

ING doesn't have business checking accounts.

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January 12, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
 #691

They are now a subsidiary of Capital One . . .
Looks like the are going to be re-branded.  No more "ING" or "Electric Orange". Now it will be "Capital One 360" and "360 Checking":

https://home.ingdirect.com/capitalone/product-updates

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January 16, 2013, 05:58:40 PM
 #692

So Bitfloor still takes ING p2p deposits? I was on their site and could not find it.

I am currently at work so I cannot access the page but could someone show me where I go to do this?

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January 16, 2013, 06:00:46 PM
 #693

So Bitfloor still takes ING p2p deposits? I was on their site and could not find it.

I am currently at work so I cannot access the page but could someone show me where I go to do this?
Click on deposit. If you don't see the deposit tab you may need to log in first.

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January 16, 2013, 06:25:03 PM
 #694

So Bitfloor still takes ING p2p deposits? I was on their site and could not find it.

I am currently at work so I cannot access the page but could someone show me where I go to do this?
Click on deposit. If you don't see the deposit tab you may need to log in first.

Yep, deposit->USD->ING P2P

While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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January 19, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
 #695

why can only withdraw via ACH and not ING p2p?

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January 20, 2013, 12:21:07 AM
 #696

why can only withdraw via ACH and not ING p2p?
Because ING does not allow businesses to open accounts with the P2P capability. Bitfloor doesn't have an ING account. They just accept transfers from them.

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January 20, 2013, 02:06:04 AM
 #697

why can only withdraw via ACH and not ING p2p?
Because ING does not allow businesses to open accounts with the P2P capability. Bitfloor doesn't have an ING account. They just accept transfers from them.

owner could just open in his name

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February 15, 2013, 03:38:49 AM
 #698

Any word on the next release of held funds shtylman?
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February 15, 2013, 05:03:45 AM
 #699

Ok this summarizes it pretty well. Data is from: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/bitfloorUSD.html


http://i47.tinypic.com/107uql0.png

This R script will generate the above updated according to the bitcoin charts schedule. If someone knows how to host it and have it update in this thread automatically that would be cool:
Code:

#Set the estimated proportion payed back
est.payed.back<-.017

#Get Data from bitcoincharts
bitfloor<-read.table("http://bitcoincharts.com/t/trades.csv?symbol=bitfloorUSD&start=0",
                     sep=","
)

##Convert Times from Unix
times=matrix(nrow=nrow(bitfloor), ncol=6)
time.string=NULL
for(i in 1:nrow(bitfloor)){
  timeStamp<-ISOdatetime(1970,1,1,0,0,0) + bitfloor[i,1]
  
  date<-strsplit(as.character(timeStamp), " ")[[1]][1]
  yr<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][1])
  mo<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][2])
  day<-as.numeric(strsplit(date, "-")[[1]][3])
  
  ToD<-strsplit(as.character(timeStamp), " ")[[1]][2]
  hr<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][1])
  min<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][2])
  sec<-as.numeric(strsplit(ToD, ":")[[1]][2])
  
  times[i,]<-cbind(yr,mo,day,hr,min,sec)
  time.string<-rbind(time.string,as.character(timeStamp))
}

bitfloor<-cbind(times,bitfloor)
colnames(bitfloor)<-c("Yr","Mo","Day","Hr","Min","Sec","UnixT","Price","Vol")

##Set First Timestamp bitfloor was open after hack
post.hack.open.time<-as.numeric(head(
  bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==2012 & bitfloor[,2]==9 & bitfloor[,3]==21),],
  1)[7])

##Divide into pre and post hack data
pre.hack.bitfloor<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,7]<post.hack.open.time),]
post.hack.bitfloor<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,7]>(post.hack.open.time-1)),]

#Generate cumulative volume and fees
pre.hack.bitfloor<-cbind(pre.hack.bitfloor,
                         cumsum(pre.hack.bitfloor[,8]*pre.hack.bitfloor[,9]),
                         cumsum(pre.hack.bitfloor[,8]*pre.hack.bitfloor[,9])*.005
)
colnames(pre.hack.bitfloor)[10:11]<-c("cumUSD.Vol","cumFee")

post.hack.bitfloor<-cbind(post.hack.bitfloor,
                          cumsum(post.hack.bitfloor[,8]*post.hack.bitfloor[,9]),
                          cumsum(post.hack.bitfloor[,8]*post.hack.bitfloor[,9])*.003
)
colnames(post.hack.bitfloor)[10:11]<-c("cumUSD.Vol","cumFee")
#

##Set Timestamp of first payout
payback.time.one<-as.numeric(head(
  bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==2012 & bitfloor[,2]==12 & bitfloor[,3]==1),],
  1)[7])

##Split into pre and post payout
pre.payout.one<-post.hack.bitfloor[which(post.hack.bitfloor[,7]<payback.time.one),]
post.payout.one<-post.hack.bitfloor[which(post.hack.bitfloor[,7]>(payback.time.one-1)),]

#Generate cumulative volume and fee data
pre.payout.one[,10:11]<-cbind(
  cumsum(pre.payout.one[,8]*pre.payout.one[,9]),
  cumsum(pre.payout.one[,8]*pre.payout.one[,9])*.003
)

post.payout.one[,10:11]<-cbind(
  cumsum(post.payout.one[,8]*post.payout.one[,9]),
  cumsum(post.payout.one[,8]*post.payout.one[,9])*.003
)
#

##Get months from unix timestamps
month.labels=data.frame()
for(y in 2012:2013){
  for(m in 1:12){
    unixT<-bitfloor[which(bitfloor[,1]==y & bitfloor[,2]==m),7][1]
    month.labels<-rbind(month.labels,cbind(unixT,month.name[m]))
  }
}
month.labels<-month.labels[which(!is.na(month.labels[,1])),]
month.labels<-month.labels[2:nrow(month.labels),]

##Misc
Total.Value.Stolen<-25000*tail(bitfloor[,8],1)
Total.Value.Payed<-est.payed.back*Total.Value.Stolen

##Make Plots
dev.new()
layout(matrix(c(1,1,1,3,2,2,2,4), 2, 4, byrow = TRUE))
plot(bitfloor[,7],bitfloor[,8], type="n", xaxt="n",
     xlab="Time",
     ylab="USD/BTC",ylim=c(0,(max(bitfloor[,8])+5)),
     main="Bitfloor Price History"
)
axis(1,at=as.numeric(as.matrix(month.labels[,1])),
     labels=as.character(month.labels[,2]))
lines(pre.hack.bitfloor[,7],pre.hack.bitfloor[,8], col="Green")
lines(pre.payout.one[,7],pre.payout.one[,8], col="Red")
lines(post.payout.one[,7],post.payout.one[,8], col="Blue")
abline(v=payback.time.one)

plot(pre.hack.bitfloor[,7],pre.hack.bitfloor[,11], xaxt="n",
     xlab="Time",
     ylab="Cumulative Fees Generated (USD)",
     xlim=c(min(bitfloor[,7]),max(bitfloor[,7])),
     type="l", lwd=3, col="Green",
     main=c("Bitfloor Cumulative Fee Revenue",
            "Before Hack Rate= 0.5%,   After Hack= 0.3%")
)
axis(1,at=as.numeric(as.matrix(month.labels[,1])),
     labels=as.character(month.labels[,2]))
lines(pre.payout.one[,7],pre.payout.one[,11],
      type="l", lwd=3, col="Red"
)
lines(post.payout.one[,7],post.payout.one[,11],
      type="l", lwd=3, col="Blue"
)
abline(v=payback.time.one)

barplot(c(
  Total.Value.Stolen,
  Total.Value.Payed
),
        ylab="USD", ylim=c(0,1.1*Total.Value.Stolen),
        names.arg=c(paste("Value Stolen=", Total.Value.Stolen),
                    paste("Value Payed=",Total.Value.Payed)),
        col=c("Red","Green"),
        main=paste("Estimated Payed Back=",100*est.payed.back,"%")
)

barplot(c(
  max(pre.payout.one[,11]),
  max(post.payout.one[,11])
),
        ylim=c(0,1.1*max(c(max(pre.payout.one[,11]),max(post.payout.one[,11])))),
        ylab="Fees Generated (USD)",
        names.arg=c(paste("Hack to First Payout=", round(max(pre.payout.one[,11]),1)),
                    paste("Since=",round(max(post.payout.one[,11]),1))),
        col=c("Red","Blue"),
        main="Fees Generated Since Hack"
)





It did take some effort so if anyone finds it useful: 13oEWYh1tEM6voFp2XmBoD6CCCbidkk2Xm

If you can make it output to an image file, I'd be glad to put up a link and a cronjob to update it once a week.

While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
Programmer/Math Nerd
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February 15, 2013, 05:04:58 AM
 #700

Nevermind, I see it generates a pdf.  I can convert that to a png.


While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
Programmer/Math Nerd
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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