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Author Topic: bitfloor needs your help!  (Read 161904 times)
Vod
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September 05, 2012, 10:51:49 PM
 #361

No police report equals an inside job.

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September 05, 2012, 10:54:27 PM
 #362

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want your money to be free from the State, then you can't go running to the State when things don't go your way.
Quoting just because I think it is important.

and as a life long libertarian, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with it. If a state needs to exist at all, it only purpose (edit: if anything else) should be to protect citizens against fraud and violence and resolve civil issues.

Exactly. I will point out there is a difference between peace officers and law enforcement officers.

http://freemanontheland.com/canadian-common-corps-of-peace-officers/

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September 05, 2012, 11:39:55 PM
 #363

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted. 

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
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September 05, 2012, 11:42:53 PM
 #364

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted.  

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.

Our pending ACHs also cleared today.  Not insignificant sums.
For what it is worth we have done a lot of business with Roman and honestly I just don't see him pulling any kind of scam or fake hack.
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September 05, 2012, 11:54:14 PM
 #365

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted. 

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
It's much more dangerous to steal USD than Bitcoins. Also, if it was Roman, how would he explain the missing USD? (Not that I'm saying Roman stole the coins, I'm just saying this reasoning is very flimsy.)

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September 05, 2012, 11:57:50 PM
 #366

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted. 

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
It's much more dangerous to steal USD than Bitcoins. Also, if it was Roman, how would he explain the missing USD? (Not that I'm saying Roman stole the coins, I'm just saying this reasoning is very flimsy.)


Beat me to it. Leave the usd alone. Authorities understand that easily. Not that i am saying he did it but so far i have not read how the hacker got in....
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September 06, 2012, 12:14:14 AM
 #367

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted. 

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
It's much more dangerous to steal USD than Bitcoins. Also, if it was Roman, how would he explain the missing USD? (Not that I'm saying Roman stole the coins, I'm just saying this reasoning is very flimsy.)


Beat me to it. Leave the usd alone. Authorities understand that easily. Not that i am saying he did it but so far i have not read how the hacker got in....

bitfloor was hosted by Lindon, need i say more?

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September 06, 2012, 12:20:57 AM
 #368

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted. 

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
It's much more dangerous to steal USD than Bitcoins. Also, if it was Roman, how would he explain the missing USD? (Not that I'm saying Roman stole the coins, I'm just saying this reasoning is very flimsy.)


Beat me to it. Leave the usd alone. Authorities understand that easily. Not that i am saying he did it but so far i have not read how the hacker got in....

bitfloor was hosted by Lindon, need i say more?
Linode?

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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September 06, 2012, 12:59:28 AM
 #369

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted.  

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.
It's much more dangerous to steal USD than Bitcoins. Also, if it was Roman, how would he explain the missing USD? (Not that I'm saying Roman stole the coins, I'm just saying this reasoning is very flimsy.)


Beat me to it. Leave the usd alone. Authorities understand that easily. Not that i am saying he did it but so far i have not read how the hacker got in....

bitfloor was hosted by Lindon, need i say more?
Linode?

Yes, linode. But even they need a root passwd right? Thus a reset which happened to bitcoinica? Unless can read filesystem with no problems...
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September 06, 2012, 01:06:19 AM
 #370

No police report equals an inside job.
+1

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September 06, 2012, 02:05:37 AM
 #371

Is this going to be yet another theft which doesn't get reported to the police?

yeah go run to the daddy/god/state

"oooh look, the bitcoin kiddies need their diapers changed again"

Sounds like stealing bitcoins IS the perfect crime.  Difficult to track the attacker, commodity is easily convertible into the currency of the attacker's choice, and the police (in every country) don't care.  If it's an inside job then even better.  Just declare the hax0rz got the goodies and close up shop.

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September 06, 2012, 02:26:34 AM
 #372

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted.  

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.

Our pending ACHs also cleared today.  Not insignificant sums.
For what it is worth we have done a lot of business with Roman and honestly I just don't see him pulling any kind of scam or fake hack.

I can +1 this.

I've met Roman many times, and lives/works not far from our NYC office.

I dont see him pulling any scams...but you never know!

-Charlie

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Rassah
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September 06, 2012, 03:14:09 AM
 #373

Regarding reporting this to police, other than covering his butt and adding to their list of crimes, I just don't think police have the resources to track this theft down. If it's through an anonymous proxy, from Russia, and in a currency that's easily "mixed," there's really noting they can do. Not even sure the FBI would have the resources to track this down.

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September 06, 2012, 03:31:46 AM
 #374

FYI - I had some ACH (USD) transactions from the weekend pending when bitfloor went down that *did* complete this afternoon.

As Roman promised these transactions were not stopped/interrupted.  

I would assume that had he been the culprit these monies would also have disappeared.

Our pending ACHs also cleared today.  Not insignificant sums.
For what it is worth we have done a lot of business with Roman and honestly I just don't see him pulling any kind of scam or fake hack.

I can +1 this.

I've met Roman many times, and lives/works not far from our NYC office.

I dont see him pulling any scams...but you never know!

-Charlie
I can say that funds I pulled on Sunday did show up as normal.  Funds I pulled Tuesday during that small window of time are on hold.  Wish I had pulled my coins too on Sunday.

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September 06, 2012, 04:13:12 AM
 #375

Seems like you'd want to be insured.  Insurance Co likes police reports.  In general, having a police report isn't a bad idea.  It can't work against you.  If they will take a report, one should be filed.  Not to suggest they'll do anything about it, but at least there is a record that a crime occurred.

Is there any reason a police report should not be filed?
Stephen Gornick
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September 06, 2012, 04:36:05 AM
 #376

Is there any reason a police report should not be filed?

Those with USDs will likely get most / all of their funds back, so them filing a complaint with the police is not probably seen as being necessary.

Those with BTCs were there for a variety of reasons.  Some might have just been using BitFloor as a hosted (shared) EWallet  (there aren't many options for EWallets like BitFloor's which have one-time password protection and no fees)  Others had funds there for doing market timing trades, without ever intending to withdraw USDs.  They may not even be from the U.S.  Filing a complaint with the police would require providing identity, which is not always desirable.  Others had amounts too small to bother trying to recover by going to the police.

So that might explain why no customers might be filing a complaint.  As far as why the operator doesn't?  There's really no upside.  The coins are gone.  Nobody has ever been charged with a crime, even those holding customer's funds that didn't use cold storage. Also, BitFloor's operator is out of the country.

The Bitcoinica lawsuit is the first publicly known lawsuit regarding breach of contract, negligence, etc., and that hasn't been decided or settled yet so there's no great worry about covering your ass by filing a complaint with the police.

[Edit: There may be laws in BitFloor's jurisdiction that could require contacting the police or federal agency in cases of theft of customer funds, I've no idea]

blakdawg
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September 06, 2012, 05:09:48 AM
 #377

As far as why the operator doesn't?  There's really no upside.  The coins are gone.  Nobody has ever been charged with a crime, even those holding customer's funds that didn't use cold storage. Also, BitFloor's operator is out of the country.

One upside would be potential identification or incapacitation of the criminals, even if the stolen funds cannot be recovered. This would be good for everyone but the criminals; it would be especially good for Roman because it would help address suspicions that this was an inside job.

On the other hand, if the operator of a business that has experienced the mysterious disappearance of other people's property decides not to involve law enforcement, I would certainly be more inclined to imagine they were complicit in the crime, or that they were afraid that investigation of the crime would reveal other misbehavior with serious consequences.

I am more sympathetic to the "it's the operator's choice" argument if the operator is in a position to make good the customer losses out of his own funds - but if his story for his customers is "I can't be bothered to cooperate with the police in tracking down the people who stole your stuff, also the loss of your stuff is not my problem, too bad for you!", well, that doesn't leave a very nice taste in anyone's mouth.

"It's too much trouble to talk to the police" sounds pretty hollow next to the loss of $250K of other people's money.
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September 06, 2012, 05:23:23 AM
 #378

"It's too much trouble to talk to the police" sounds pretty hollow next to the loss of $250K of other people's money.

Anyone owed even a single satoshi can file a complaint.   Has anyone?
* Stephen Gornick listens to sound of crickets ...

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September 06, 2012, 05:29:17 AM
 #379

"It's too much trouble to talk to the police" sounds pretty hollow next to the loss of $250K of other people's money.

Anyone owed even a single satoshi can file a complaint.   Has anyone?
* Stephen Gornick listens to sound of crickets ...

Time not worth the $20USD I "lost."

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September 06, 2012, 05:40:00 AM
 #380

"It's too much trouble to talk to the police" sounds pretty hollow next to the loss of $250K of other people's money.

Anyone owed even a single satoshi can file a complaint.   Has anyone?
* Stephen Gornick listens to sound of crickets ...

Time not worth the $20USD I "lost."

Which is why it would make a lot of sense for the person(s) last entrusted with the funds before they were stolen to make the report, and cooperate with the investigation.

It's not going to look very good for Bitfloor if someone else (with a loss big enough to attract attention) makes the first report, and the Bitfloor operators were too busy with other projects to take care of business.

If this were a bike store, and there were a lot of customer bikes in the back room being worked on, and someone picked the lock to the back door and stole all of the customers' bikes, but the bike store owner just shrugged and said "oh, the police never do anything anyway, I'll let someone else call if they really care" then they don't seem like a very trustworthy merchant to me.

The lack of law enforcement involvement in the previous hacks didn't leave me with a very good impression of those exchange operators. Ignoring for a moment the possibility of inside jobs, it's possible that there's one guy/crew doing all of these hacks, and they're going to keep going until they're caught.
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