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Author Topic: bitfloor needs your help!  (Read 92565 times)
whitslack
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September 05, 2012, 12:50:49 AM
 #221

Following from my previous post, here's an interesting idea. Roman Shtylman, please read this and consider...

What if Bitfloor went public on the GLBSE and distributed 100% ownership of the company to the users who lost BTC in the heist, proportionally according to their lost BTC balances. For example, issue ~24,000,000 shares (one share for each 0.001 BTC that was stolen), and distribute the shares proportionately to the users whose BTC was stolen. Then Bitfloor would pay 100% of its operating profits (revenues minus operating expenses) proportionately to its shareholders. The new shareholders could either sit on their newly granted shares, sell them to recoup whatever money they could get, or buy more shares from others who are unloading theirs.
+1 but I would want Roman to maintain some percentage of the company because we would need someone to run the show and we would want him to stay stay motiviated to continue the process.  With no motiviation I might as well invest in the post office or the government.

He would be able to purchase shares in Bitfloor on the GLBSE. If he doesn't want to, and if he doesn't want to continue operating Bitfloor, the shareholders could oust him from the company and vote in a new CEO.
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unclemantis
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September 05, 2012, 12:52:31 AM
 #222

I am pretty sure my order did not go through. Just ACH me the amount that I deposited the other day.

Thank you.
Unlikely to occur unless/until BitFloor's legal counsel advises them to proceed.  There is a possibility that this will go to courts to determine what BitFloor's liabilities are and how much (if anything) you will get.

If my order never went through then the money is still 100 percent mine.

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September 05, 2012, 12:52:46 AM
 #223

I go to the site and it reads this (which it still reads)

Bitfloor Website
Is currently offline.

It will be back shortly.

I check back later and its up. So I sent 136 coin to my deposit address.

Anyone else think the message on the site should read

DO NOT SEND ANY COIN TO US WE HAVE BEEN HACKED!!!!!

or something of that nature. I only keep my money in coin for less than 24 hours before converting it and got screwed. Guess I stop taking bitcoin cause its too risky.
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September 05, 2012, 12:54:39 AM
 #224

I am pretty sure my order did not go through. Just ACH me the amount that I deposited the other day.

Thank you.
Unlikely to occur unless/until BitFloor's legal counsel advises them to proceed.  There is a possibility that this will go to courts to determine what BitFloor's liabilities are and how much (if anything) you will get.

If my order never went through then the money is still 100 percent mine.
You can hope so, but until the Terms Of Service are reviewed and all legal options are considered BitFloor isn't likely to agree with you.

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September 05, 2012, 12:55:11 AM
 #225

I go to the site and it reads this (which it still reads)

Bitfloor Website
Is currently offline.

It will be back shortly.

I check back later and its up. So I sent 136 coin to my deposit address.

Anyone else think the message on the site should read

DO NOT SEND ANY COIN TO US WE HAVE BEEN HACKED!!!!!

or something of that nature. I only keep my money in coin for less than 24 hours before converting it and got screwed. Guess I stop taking bitcoin cause its too risky.

Speaking like a true Junior.

Imagine how Bitfloor feels right now.

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September 05, 2012, 12:56:15 AM
 #226

Roman wants to work to make it 100% right in the long-term, but the court wants the short-term compromise at the expense of making the long-term restitution impossible.

What court?  He hasn't even got legal advice yet and is - wisely - suspending the service until he has done so.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent someone who goes through formal insolvency proceedings from paying back every one of their creditors in full even decades later - that's a personal choice, not a legal requirement.

People willing to wait can also not file a claim against the insolvent estate - that would mean those who want quick and certain payment would be paid  out to the extent allowed by the assets while others could seek a different form of, longer term, repayment.


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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September 05, 2012, 12:56:24 AM
 #227

I am pretty sure my order did not go through. Just ACH me the amount that I deposited the other day.

Thank you.
Unlikely to occur unless/until BitFloor's legal counsel advises them to proceed.  There is a possibility that this will go to courts to determine what BitFloor's liabilities are and how much (if anything) you will get.

If my order never went through then the money is still 100 percent mine.

you really need to read the whole thread, unless you had a USD transfer out pending your funds are likely to be tied up in court

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
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September 05, 2012, 12:56:50 AM
 #228

Following from my previous post, here's an interesting idea. Roman Shtylman, please read this and consider...

What if Bitfloor went public on the GLBSE and distributed 100% ownership of the company to the users who lost BTC in the heist, proportionally according to their lost BTC balances. For example, issue ~24,000,000 shares (one share for each 0.001 BTC that was stolen), and distribute the shares proportionately to the users whose BTC was stolen. Then Bitfloor would pay 100% of its operating profits (revenues minus operating expenses) proportionately to its shareholders. The new shareholders could either sit on their newly granted shares, sell them to recoup whatever money they could get, or buy more shares from others who are unloading theirs.
+1 but I would want Roman to maintain some percentage of the company because we would need someone to run the show and we would want him to stay stay motiviated to continue the process.  With no motiviation I might as well invest in the post office or the government.

He would be able to purchase shares in Bitfloor on the GLBSE. If he doesn't want to, and if he doesn't want to continue operating Bitfloor, the shareholders could oust him from the company and vote in a new CEO.

Who would understand his code better than him?

It makes no sense to let him sell the 100% just for covering the loss and then, knowing it makes a measly 2K US$ a month and that it will be shared in dividends, pretend he will be motivated to work or that someone capable will work for wages low enough for the company to turn a profit.

The IPO should be for about 300% of the losses so infrastructure can be improved from the start, and at least a partner can be hired (a 1-man exchange is asking for trouble). It all depends on how much do people value a properly operating Bitfloor in the long term. I think 75K+ is fair, maybe 100K+.

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unclemantis
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September 05, 2012, 12:57:17 AM
 #229

I am pretty sure my order did not go through. Just ACH me the amount that I deposited the other day.

Thank you.
Unlikely to occur unless/until BitFloor's legal counsel advises them to proceed.  There is a possibility that this will go to courts to determine what BitFloor's liabilities are and how much (if anything) you will get.

If my order never went through then the money is still 100 percent mine.
You can hope so, but until the Terms Of Service are reviewed and all legal options are considered BitFloor isn't likely to agree with you.

That is bullshit. I have a lot of money held up in this MISTAKE. I am trying really hard not to be one of the bad buys but it is a lot of money Sad In my eyes that is.

Also I TRUST BITCOIN. Just the coin.

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September 05, 2012, 12:57:21 AM
 #230

. . .Guess I stop taking bitcoin cause its too risky.
Your first mistake was getting involved with bitcoin without understanding what the risks are and determining if those risks exceeded your risk tolerance.

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September 05, 2012, 12:58:14 AM
 #231

. . .Guess I stop taking bitcoin cause its too risky.
Your first mistake was getting involved with bitcoin without understanding what the risks are and determining if those risks exceeded your risk tolerance.

I trust bitcoin. it is the human factor that is RISKY.

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whitslack
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September 05, 2012, 12:58:23 AM
 #232

Following from my previous post, here's an interesting idea. Roman Shtylman, please read this and consider...

What if Bitfloor went public on the GLBSE and distributed 100% ownership of the company to the users who lost BTC in the heist, proportionally according to their lost BTC balances. For example, issue ~24,000,000 shares (one share for each 0.001 BTC that was stolen), and distribute the shares proportionately to the users whose BTC was stolen. Then Bitfloor would pay 100% of its operating profits (revenues minus operating expenses) proportionately to its shareholders. The new shareholders could either sit on their newly granted shares, sell them to recoup whatever money they could get, or buy more shares from others who are unloading theirs.
Nice idea, but what if someone who had a lot of BTC on deposit with BitFloor believes that they have a better chance in the courts than they do selling of shares of BitFloor?  How do you convince everybody to go along with your plan?
Maybe it's not necessary to convince everybody. Let it go to court. Let the settlements be decided. Then give each plaintiff the choice of whether to be paid out in USD or in Bitfloor stock. Ownership in the company would then be divided proportionately among all those who opted for stock. The dollars remaining in Bitfloor's coffers would be distributed proportionately to all those who opted for money. It would be up to the court to decide whether to distribute all of the USD to those requesting the monetary compensation option or to hold back an amount in proportion to the balances of those who opted for stock compensation and then issue a one-time dividend of that remaining amount to the new shareholders.
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September 05, 2012, 12:58:49 AM
 #233

Following from my previous post, here's an interesting idea. Roman Shtylman, please read this and consider...

What if Bitfloor went public on the GLBSE and distributed 100% ownership of the company to the users who lost BTC in the heist, proportionally according to their lost BTC balances. For example, issue ~24,000,000 shares (one share for each 0.001 BTC that was stolen), and distribute the shares proportionately to the users whose BTC was stolen. Then Bitfloor would pay 100% of its operating profits (revenues minus operating expenses) proportionately to its shareholders. The new shareholders could either sit on their newly granted shares, sell them to recoup whatever money they could get, or buy more shares from others who are unloading theirs.

So Roman would work eternally for 0% equity?  I don't see that being viable.

He would be much better off under Bankruptcy protection.

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September 05, 2012, 12:59:08 AM
 #234

He has a responsibility to let people know not to send bitcoin to hacked addresses. We will be back could be server maintenance ect.... I have checked the site all day and nothing so he waiting for how many trades to take place or api trades to take place before starting a thread on bitcointalk.org honestly I think bitfloor is the JR on this one. I'm in business to make money taking a thousand dollar hit on one of the most used trading sites can I really be blamed as feeling uneasy on my fourth bitcoin payment for my services being lost due to negligence.
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September 05, 2012, 01:01:16 AM
 #235

He has a responsibility to let people know not to send bitcoin to hacked addresses. We will be back could be server maintenance ect.... I have checked the site all day and nothing so he waiting for how many trades to take place or api trades to take place before starting a thread on bitcointalk.org honestly I think bitfloor is the JR on this one. I'm in business to make money taking a thousand dollar hit on one of the most used trading sites can I really be blamed as feeling uneasy on my fourth bitcoin payment for my services being lost due to negligence.

Making money by pushing money around is risky.

You want to take zero risk? Open a coffee shop.

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September 05, 2012, 01:01:29 AM
 #236

The IPO should be for about 300% of the losses so infrastructure can be improved from the start, and at least a partner can be hired (a 1-man exchange is asking for trouble). It all depends on how much do people value a properly operating Bitfloor in the long term. I think 75K+ is fair, maybe 100K+.
+1
I think Bitfloor has enormous growth potential. My opinion is that Bitfloor is vastly technologically superior to Mt. Gox, modulo today's failing. I suspect, with a proper treatise on the security failure and security architecture plan for moving forward, Bitfloor could raise enough in an IPO to pay everyone back and resume operations with an improved platform.
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September 05, 2012, 01:02:43 AM
 #237

Making money by pushing money around is risky.

You want to take zero risk? Open a coffee shop.
LoL! Spoken like a total n00b! The only risk-free business is borrowing from the Federal Reserve at 0% and lending out at 5%+, and only Too-Big-To-Fail banks get to do that.
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September 05, 2012, 01:04:21 AM
 #238

The IPO should be for about 300% of the losses so infrastructure can be improved from the start, and at least a partner can be hired (a 1-man exchange is asking for trouble). It all depends on how much do people value a properly operating Bitfloor in the long term. I think 75K+ is fair, maybe 100K+.
+1
I think Bitfloor has enormous growth potential. My opinion is that Bitfloor is vastly technologically superior to Mt. Gox, modulo today's failing. I suspect, with a proper treatise on the security failure and security architecture plan for moving forward, Bitfloor could raise enough in an IPO to pay everyone back and resume operations with an improved platform.

So he has no responsibility and anyone who did business with him is just an idiot? I understand that I took a risk with bitfloor regardless you dont think its crap the HE STILL HAS NOTHING on the site about not sending payments to hacked accounts? I know anyone who sends money there is dumb and taking a huge risk but regardless he has zero responsibility in your eyes?
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September 05, 2012, 01:05:46 AM
 #239

it seems likely that BTC sent in AFTER the hack announcement may be set aside in an eventual settlement

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
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September 05, 2012, 01:07:17 AM
 #240

I am pretty sure my order did not go through. Just ACH me the amount that I deposited the other day.

Thank you.
Unlikely to occur unless/until BitFloor's legal counsel advises them to proceed.  There is a possibility that this will go to courts to determine what BitFloor's liabilities are and how much (if anything) you will get.

If my order never went through then the money is still 100 percent mine.
You can hope so, but until the Terms Of Service are reviewed and all legal options are considered BitFloor isn't likely to agree with you.

That is bullshit. I have a lot of money held up in this MISTAKE. I am trying really hard not to be one of the bad buys but it is a lot of money. . .
I can understand your frustration.  Unfortunately your point of view isn't the only point of view in this matter.  As such, BitCoin has done the only thing they can to protect themselves, they've engaged legal counsel.  After that, what happens will depend a lot more on how the lawyers interpret the Terms Of Service and current law than what you want to have happen.

For your sake I hope that the lawyers quickly determine that BitFloor is required to immediately pay back all USD on deposit.  Somehow, I doubt that will be the case though.

Such are the risks of handing over your money to an unregulated, uninsured, un-audited company.

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