Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[Inaba]

You would be incorrect. I have answered many of his questions (even went on BTC-E chat to talk to him) and he's still badgering me.  Most of his stuff is fabricated, so it's hard to even have a conversation with him.

[smoothie]

You would be incorrect. I have answered many of his questions (even went on BTC-E chat to talk to him) and he's still badgering me.  Most of his stuff is fabricated, so it's hard to even have a conversation with him.

Okay so does Nasser run the day to day in USA or not?

Yes or NO?

[smoothie]

on this note id like INABA to confirm nasser is the CEO and takes a active role in the BFL offices. and is not just a back seat passenger with a glossy name badge while sonny takes the reigns and does the driving?

no waffle please, no insults .. just one straight forward answer for once. take a sip of coffee before u reply INABA, stay relaxed and just answer the question in a diplomatic and mature way.

is nasser CEO .. and does he play an active role in the BFL offices and is not a back seat passenger while someone else is in the driving seat?

What Babbling?

I simply wanted the information out there for all to see and felt that Off-topic was the best place to present my findings so not to derail any ongoing threads. Was just trying to be considerate.

Considerate?  Really?  I'll let poor Josh Wepman know you were just trying to be "considerate."

Franky1: Please shut up.  Your inane babbling is almost as bad as Mem's ridiculously childish insults.  Are you related to him or something?  You do know he's declared mentally handicapped by Australian law, right?  You are striving to be equal to a mentally challenged person, please rise above that level at least.

I did not read any babbling from Franky1. He calmly asked you a straight and simple question. What's the problem?

Yes or no?

[franky1]

is nasser the in house CEO that runs the day to day duties in the company??

[smoothie]

is nasser the in house CEO that runs the day to day duties in the company??

+1

I don't see what's so difficult in a yes or no question.

[Rassah]

I think I'm going to have to make some calls, or even some visits, before making my purchase. Inaba, yeah, he may be a crazy troll, but your lack of simple answers are making me uncomfortable, too 

[smoothie]

I think I'm going to have to make some calls, or even some visits, before making my purchase. Inaba, yeah, he may be a crazy troll, but your lack of simple answers are making me uncomfortable, too 

I can be a troll too. But to ignore a simple question like this gives many reason to believe inaba has something to hide.

Yes or no Inaba? You know the question...

[franky1]

without waffle i will counteract INABA's theory that i fabricated the evidence of BFL's address being an apartment block called chambers loft in that pastebin. heres my source

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg597832#msg597832

crazy troll.. im only deemed crazy as INABA says my evidence is fiction.. shame its INABA's evidence.

i had high hopes for INABA's open-ness back at the start of august when he took the job. shame its resorted to insults with no substance from him.

now back to the question about nasser

[smoothie]

without waffle i will counteract INABA's theory that i fabricated the evidence of BFL's address being an apartment block called chambers loft in that pastebin. heres my source

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg597832#msg597832

crazy troll.. im only deemed crazy as INABA says my evidence is fiction.. shame its INABA's evidence.

i had high hopes for INABA's open-ness back at the start of august when he took the job. shame its resorted to insults with no substance from him.

now back to the question about nasser

I know wasn't he touting the new position he took on in August?

Now what? False accusations of babbling of "fictional evidence".

His silence speaks volumes. You all hear that?

I sure hope those who invested with BFL get their money's worth.

[Cluster2k]

Meh, I have a small order with BFL and still expect delivery within the next few months.  I won't be declaring it a scam if I don't have my order by the end of October.  I'm a programmer and realise deadlines do often slip.

Do these revelations about the CEO's past concern me?  You bet.  But BFL does have a track record of delivering products so I think it's premature to call BFL an elaborate scam.

I paid for my order by credit card through PayPal.  If on the off chance BFL decides to take the money and run I have two avenues of legal recourse.  The much hyped lack of charge backs when paying via bitcoin would be a definite disadvantage here.

[tvbcof]

...

I paid for my order by credit card through PayPal.  If on the off chance BFL decides to take the money and run I have two avenues of legal recourse.  The much hyped lack of charge backs when paying via bitcoin would be a definite disadvantage here.

IIRC you've got something like 45 days from the purchase date.  But that (or something like it) is for me and I have only payed from an account which I keep charged with fiat (not using a credit card.)

I've harped on this before, but I hope people realize what a dis-advantage Bitcoin is at by not having the ability to do charge-backs.  A second-best solution would be to be able to nullify transaction, or at least part of them (such that the value goes into the ether.)  Perhaps on some sort of a pro-rated schedule.  In this way, someone who scams someone else would at least not be able to profit (which would drastically reduce the incentive to scam, of course.)  There would be relatively little reason for an otherwise happy customer to nullify a transaction for shits-n-giggles I feel.  But if that were a problem, a very simple rating registry would help a lot.

[smoothie]

Meh, I have a small order with BFL and still expect delivery within the next few months.  I won't be declaring it a scam if I don't have my order by the end of October.  I'm a programmer and realise deadlines do often slip.

Do these revelations about the CEO's past concern me?  You bet.  But BFL does have a track record of delivering products so I think it's premature to call BFL an elaborate scam.

I paid for my order by credit card through PayPal.  If on the off chance BFL decides to take the money and run I have two avenues of legal recourse.  The much hyped lack of charge backs when paying via bitcoin would be a definite disadvantage here.

Who called it a scam? Link? Quote?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Meh, I have a small order with BFL and still expect delivery within the next few months.  I won't be declaring it a scam if I don't have my order by the end of October.  I'm a programmer and realise deadlines do often slip.

Do these revelations about the CEO's past concern me?  You bet.  But BFL does have a track record of delivering products so I think it's premature to call BFL an elaborate scam.

I paid for my order by credit card through PayPal.  If on the off chance BFL decides to take the money and run I have two avenues of legal recourse.  The much hyped lack of charge backs when paying via bitcoin would be a definite disadvantage here.

Who called it a scam? Link? Quote?

Noone did, but a lot of ppl think so.

[greyhawk]

Who called it a scam? Link? Quote?

Noone did, but a lot of ppl think so.

How do you know what people are thinking? Are you a CIA agent?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Who called it a scam? Link? Quote?

Noone did, but a lot of ppl think so.

How do you know what people are thinking? Are you a CIA agent?

They think what I want them to think, muahahahaha...

EDIT: If seriously, it's obvious what ppl think. There were so many scams in Bitcoin world...

[elux]

Reply to comment https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112263.msg1222342#msg1222342 in the thread So I got an interview with Sonny Vleisides from BFL, crossposted here.

That's a corporate registration. They are rarely in the same state where the actual business resides, and are typically set up in states with best tax laws and lowest annual fees.
As for the business, check the address. On good street view, you can actually see their names on the side of the building where they do their thing.

Do you have a link for this street view of their address of operations? Their business name is visible?

This is probably the place you're referring to, dunno if it's their actual place of business / factory / offices:







Imgur album: http://imgur.com/a/y5Djk


Note: Since their address is simply a P.O Box, this could very well be the wrong location.

If so, perhaps Inaba could be so kind as to post a Google Maps link to the actual place of business?

Inaba had some trouble finding their place of business himself last year, before he joined BFL, as you can see:

So I just walked across the street to closer inspect it.  Zaina is 25 Walnut Ste 105 and the Lofts are just 25 Walnut.  

Here's a couple pictures.  There is no way into the lofts without an access card and it does not look in any way, shape or form setup for any business.  No intercom on the outside, etc...

Zaina dose not serve FPGA's, for bitcoin or otherwise.





https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg597832#msg597832

So yeah, Inaba went in person to the Google Maps location on http://www.butterflylabs.com/contact/ and found a Mediterranean Restaurant.

Kinda funny!

[Rassah]

i have done alot of research on BFL. read every single message ever posted by inaba and others.
checked state records, u named it i done it. and each piece of info had at the time also been found by second parties.


the FPGA chips have finally been confirmed as being made by altera not BFL.

and the asics..
guess who
http://www.altera.com/products/devices/hardcopy-asics/hardcopy-stratix/hst-index.jsp

If bfl actually from day one simply said they were on a similar par to what sapphire xfx, BFG and PNY are to ATI..

Considering BFL repeatedly stated that their parts manufacturing is outsourced, that the reason for delays in spring were due to inventory problems from their parts providers, and that they just now finally got their own Pick-and-Place machine to assemble the electronics instead of doing everything by hand, I'm not sure how anyone would assume that they make their electronics and processors in-house, by themselves.
Regarding the current ASICs chips, if they found compatible ones from Altera, great! If their CEO used his engineering skills to design one from scratch, and they commissioned another company to make them for BFL, even if that company is Altera, great too! I fail to see what the evil conspiracy is, since there hasn't been proof one way or the other as to who did the ASIC design. Nor does it really matter, does it?

as what BFL is to altera.. things would be rosey. but every comment from BFL representatives has been shady.

also i know sonny is the 'team leader' 'head honcho' 'top dog' of BFL. i just want to hear it from the horses mouth, and if he does not say the right words i want to see him back track his statements when i show him the evidence.

How do you know he is the 'head honcho?' How do you know Sonny is not just the main rep, the guy who does the talking and assembling of a business group, and, say, Chris is not the 'head honcho' who runs the business from behind the scene?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg631047#msg631047
nasser works in paris and is really into the FPGA ASIC quantum computing stuff..
he was the engineer he was chatting to on skype while he had a face to face with sonny at the chambers loft address. yep sonny is in america running things, while nasser is the distant party.

Why is Nasser living in France relevant? Is something wrong about having your engineer/CEO doing things from far away? How is that different from other companies that outsource?

a hint to the future
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97269.msg1141030#msg1141030
yes nasser is currently looking into quantum computing.. check out his facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/nasser.ghoseiri for verification the 'likes' page shows quantum computer.. so its on the agenda.

I'm pretty sure everyone is already aware of quantum computers, and that we likely won't have any working ones that could hash for at least another 10 years. Why is this relevant? (BTW, to me this only proves that Nasser knows his chip hardware and cryptography really well).

im just waiting for INABA's openness to shine through.. as so far its shadier then the dark side of the moon

i do like how cheap he ended up selling out to the darkside after reading this quote from him in 2011
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48863.msg630930#msg630930

There's still no conclusive proof that there is a dark side. The only thing that was conclusively proven is that Sonny has a criminal history, and that BFL is somewhat secretive about their business practices, which have since been exposed, albeit in Sonny's own words. As for Inaba's openness and him dodging your questions, first, you're not even asking the right questions. A lot of them are irrelevant, and have no bearing on whether BFL can deliver a product that does what they say it will, and for the price they charge. And second, judging by the way you ask, you have already clearly indicated that you do not trust the person you are actually asking. So, why would Inaba, or anyone else, answering your questions convince you, if you don't trust them to begin with?

[Syke]

You would be incorrect. I have answered many of his questions (even went on BTC-E chat to talk to him) and he's still badgering me.  Most of his stuff is fabricated, so it's hard to even have a conversation with him.

Look Inaba, your rants are funny and all, but why can't you answer simple questions that a reputable business would have no trouble answering?

* Who owns BFL?
* Who runs BFL?
* Why does BFL not have a business license?

and on and on...

[greyhawk]

What is it with Bitcoin and mediterranian restaurants? That's the third one now after OnlyOneTV-MezeGrill and Bitcoin London-Antalya Restaurant.

[Rassah]

* Who owns BFL?
Inaba said it's a shareholder owned LLC, and that Sonny is not the majority shareholder

* Who runs BFL?
Inaba and Sonny said that Nasser is the CEO, and Chris, Sonny's stepfather, is the President

* Why does BFL not have a business license?
Inaba confirmed that BFL is a registered Limited Liability Corporation, registered in Wyoming. What license are you asking for?

I'm not shilling for BFL, it's just that all this has already been answered.