Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[tvbcof]

...
I'm not shilling for BFL, ...

Sure you are.  The only real question is why, and why with such gusto?  I guess we'll find out eventually.  Or not...it's not terribly important one way or another.  Just one more thing in a countless list of observations of the world around us.

[Inaba]

I approve of the above message.

[Bitinvestor]

I'm a BFL pessimist but I won't put it in my sig.

[niko]

I approve of the above message.

You forgot to add the category to your signature. Also, you forgot to answer several sensible questions in this thread. Also, you promised we were going to have answers in the Town Hall thread. Just reminding you.

[the_thing]

I think you are mistaking the facts I posted for me feeling sorry for Sonny. I do not feel sorry for him.

I think you are mistaking your opinions for facts.

I simply believe the solution for those who have paid their debts to society is NOT to have the unproductive fill up our streets and steal our tax money through welfare programs instead truly producing.

I agree to a certain degree. However, society should take some precautions. Pedophiles shouldn't work in a kindergarten. Scammers shouldn't handle large sums of money, because chances are they might not be able to resist the urge to take money again.

I simply believe in people and in their ability to reform their ways.

I believe people are tempted to defraud money in an environment where scammers don't get caught. Even more so if they already defrauded money in an environment where scammers usually do get caught.

Please self-disclose your alignment in your sig.

I'm neutral to BFL. I won't put it in my sig, because it could look like an advertisement for someone who didn't read your post.

[Rassah]

...
I'm not shilling for BFL, ...

Sure you are.  The only real question is why, and why with such gusto?  I guess we'll find out eventually.  Or not...it's not terribly important one way or another.  Just one more thing in a countless list of observations of the world around us.

I'm a BFL+ (optimist) at most. Not getting any pay from them, have not made my order yet, and don't even know any of the guys working there. Not even Inaba.

[tvbcof]

...

BFL$ = shill/employee
BFL<3 = fanboy
BFL++ = advocate
BFL+ = optimist
BFL = neutral
BFL- = pessimist
BFL-- = opponent
BFL> = hater
BFL●～* = agitator

Please self-disclose your alignment in your sig.

I'll have to take the liberty of rolling my own.

  BFL...hmmm... = very skeptical observer.

Even if I didn't feel that sigs are for douche-bags, BFL is nowhere nearly important enough to warrant a spot in one.  My skepticism has built quickly due in part to BFL's actions/in-actions after the Sonny thing popped up to capture my attention.

There is some chance that I'll be interested in ASIC down the road if/when they are developed a bit and I get a better read on the trajectory of Bitcoin itself.  That is why I'm even an interested observer.  But there is no way I'll be investing a dime in something which is closed-source for a bunch of reasons.  The simplest being that open-source tends to garner the mindshare to make a successful product in this space.  With closed source we have to put up with buggy shit from people who don't have much incentive (not to mention skill) to support their product.  And again, in the case of BFL I'll be fairly surprised if they have anything at all in ASIC-land and much more surprised if they get anything out even remotely close to schedule.  I've been surprised before, though, so I certainly don't rule it out.

[greyhawk]

...
I'm not shilling for BFL, ...

Sure you are.  The only real question is why, and why with such gusto?  I guess we'll find out eventually.  Or not...it's not terribly important one way or another.  Just one more thing in a countless list of observations of the world around us.

Rassah has been playing apologist for anyone that looks shady and is being asked sensible questions since, oh, at least since Bruce Wagner and logansryche. No one knows why, maybe he has a criminals fetish or something.

[tvbcof]

...
I'm not shilling for BFL, ...

Sure you are.  The only real question is why, and why with such gusto?  I guess we'll find out eventually.  Or not...it's not terribly important one way or another.  Just one more thing in a countless list of observations of the world around us.

Rassah has been playing apologist for anyone that looks shady and is being asked sensible questions since, oh, at least since Bruce Wagner and logansryche. No one knows why, maybe he has a criminals fetish or something.

I was under the impression that he was an SA goon for a long time.  I guess on the basis of his initial icon thingy (I never can remember what those are called.)  I go back-n-forth on it.  It would be a pretty high-quality goon-ish achievement to embed as deeply as he and influence people to get conned.  That would be good for some lulz so you've swung me to considering the 'is-SA' hypothesis once again.  It's hard to imagine anyone expending such an effort, but everybody has their callings in life I guess so it seems possible.

[reeses]

I'm neutral to BFL. I won't put it in my sig, because it could look like an advertisement for someone who didn't read your post.

Fair dinkum.

I started a separate topic on this in Newbieland, and created a doc hosted on github.

Feel free to leave anything about BFL out. :-)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113795.0

[Rassah]

Rassah has been playing apologist for anyone that looks shady and is being asked sensible questions since, oh, at least since Bruce Wagner and logansryche. No one knows why, maybe he has a criminals fetish or something.

How about a Devil's Advocate fetish? Or at least a facts-based justice fetish. When people bring up facts, and then jump to their own conclusions, it sort of bugs me.

I was under the impression that he was an SA goon for a long time.  I guess on the basis of his initial icon thingy (I never can remember what those are called.)  I go back-n-forth on it.  It would be a pretty high-quality goon-ish achievement to embed as deeply as he and influence people to get conned.  That would be good for some lulz so you've swung me to considering the 'is-SA' hypothesis once again.  It's hard to imagine anyone expending such an effort, but everybody has their callings in life I guess so it seems possible.

I frikin' hate SA with a passion, and consider them basement dwelling, mouth-breathing, bottom feeders. If I ever said that Bruce Wagner, or Sonny and BFL were innocent, I'd love for you to point that out. Hell, if I ever said that BFL is a legit business, is definitely not a scam, and people should preorder their products, I'd love for you to point that out, too. I'm fairly certain I've been careful to stick to facts and use things like "according to what so and so said" or "we only have their word to go on." That alone makes me pretty much the exact opposite of SA goons, since if you troll their forums, you'll notice they are VERY quick to jump to conclusions and demonize everything and everyone.

[repentance]

I was under the impression that he was an SA goon for a long time.  I guess on the basis of his initial icon thingy (I never can remember what those are called.)  I go back-n-forth on it.  It would be a pretty high-quality goon-ish achievement to embed as deeply as he and influence people to get conned.  That would be good for some lulz so you've swung me to considering the 'is-SA' hypothesis once again.  It's hard to imagine anyone expending such an effort, but everybody has their callings in life I guess so it seems possible.

Poe's law.

[tvbcof]

I was under the impression that he was an SA goon for a long time.  I guess on the basis of his initial icon thingy (I never can remember what those are called.)  I go back-n-forth on it.  It would be a pretty high-quality goon-ish achievement to embed as deeply as he and influence people to get conned.  That would be good for some lulz so you've swung me to considering the 'is-SA' hypothesis once again.  It's hard to imagine anyone expending such an effort, but everybody has their callings in life I guess so it seems possible.

I frikin' hate SA with a passion, and consider them basement dwelling, mouth-breathing, bottom feeders. If I ever said that Bruce Wagner, or Sonny and BFL were innocent, I'd love for you to point that out. Hell, if I ever said that BFL is a legit business, is definitely not a scam, and people should preorder their products, I'd love for you to point that out, too. I'm fairly certain I've been careful to stick to facts and use things like "according to what so and so said" or "we only have their word to go on." That alone makes me pretty much the exact opposite of SA goons, since if you troll their forums, you'll notice they are VERY quick to jump to conclusions and demonize everything and everyone.

Ya, on second look your picture thing isn't as SA-like as I  remembered.  I'm not abandoning my hypothesis, but consider it fairly weak.

As for SA, I've got nothing much against them.  I appreciate the work they've done on certain scammers in the past, and it's work that Bitcoiners should have been doing.  The SA population has about the same percentage of imbeciles as we have here which is not surprising.  They have some comedy talent, but much of it has wandered off.

'good_citizen' had about 50% of the SA talent to himself, but he's gone.  I almost had him talked into taking a BTC position once I think.  IIRC, it was at a time when he would now be up 4x or so.  I hope he did and capitalized because 'He so funny; he make me laugh long time!'  The guy's work on logansyriche(sp) and his 'large land mammal' still make me chuckle.

[repentance]

'good_citizen' had about 50% of the SA talent to himself, but he's gone. 

FuriousxGeorge's PinkiePie troll deserves an honourable mention.

[tvbcof]

'good_citizen' had about 50% of the SA talent to himself, but he's gone. 

FuriousxGeorge's PinkiePie troll deserves an honourable mention.

That was OK, but a little to over the top and obvious, much like Rarity.

IIRC, FAtlas was just straight-up troll and effective in part because a lot of his material tended to have some basis in truth which nobody could really deny.  That is my personal definition of a high quality trawl (since it tends to work the best and also tends to implant interesting and potentially valuable thought patterns within the 'victims'.)  I don't think I was alone in appreciating FAtlas's contributions...seems like he had to put some effort into detaching himself because even some of the forum staff seemed to have some affinity to him.  I think that 'greyhawk' (who is the same guy on both forums I assume) is doing an acceptable job of carrying the banner, and I appreciate his work more than Pinky or Rarity, but FAtlas left some big shoes to fill IMHO.  I guess I've got a man-crush on the guy or something.

But jeez are we a ways off-topic!  Maybe someday I'll try to get some sort of Bitcon<->SA interface going in the off-topic board.  Cannot join SA because they don't (yet) accept BTC...and I'd probably loose my $10(equiv) within seconds for not  communicating 100% orthodox thought patterns.  On top of that, the Bitcoin discussions there are mostly pretty boring at this time.

[makomk]

In addition to whats already been said, they are small in size, automatic plug and play, requires no knwoledge from the user when working with intelligent mining software, cost much less electricity to hash, and very quiet in comparison to any other mining hardware I know of.

I'd never go back to GPU, much like I wouldnt go back to CPU from GPU.

I would say BFL Singles are indeed revolutionary in many ways.

They kinda suck in the "plug and play" department too from what I can tell; apparently you either have to keep trying to flash different speeds of firmware on them until you get one that works acceptably well, or run a really slow program that does it for you and then have to do it again once the weather warms up. As grotty as the interface is on Ztex's kit, at least it has automatic speed control. (Originally they didn't even have that option, leaving some early adopters in warmer areas cursing and desperately trying to get more cooling to they actually ran reliably.)

[Inaba]

They kinda suck in the "plug and play" department too from what I can tell;

You can't tell much then, can you?

[evanesce]

I do not like Inaba's attitude, nor his "split personality disorder" he's developed since starting to work for BFL.  He feels that if he hides behind one forum ID he can be a complete asshole, and on the other ID he can be nice and customer service oriented.  I cancelled my preorder and I expect a refund.  If a refund is not sent, I will be even more concerned that this whole operation is a long con scam.

[the_thing]

I do not like Inaba's attitude, nor his "split personality disorder" he's developed since starting to work for BFL.  He feels that if he hides behind one forum ID he can be a complete asshole, and on the other ID he can be nice and customer service oriented.  I cancelled my preorder and I expect a refund.  If a refund is not sent, I will be even more concerned that this whole operation is a long con scam.

Finally a customer eager to test his vendor. Thank you.

[Jutarul]

Can I get a refund on my pre-order?...

According to Inaba, people got refunded.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1210787#msg1210787