Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[tvbcof]

Inaba did confirm, see OP:

Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees.  One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism.  If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it.

Heh.  Libertarians.  Speak up.  Is mail fraud scamming old people (admittedly the victims being not so bright) in the Libertarian playbook?  I must have missed that chapter.

From what I've been able to pick up out of the playbook without actually studying it, it seems that senile oldsters are weak and it is the place of the weak to be devoured by the strong in order for the world to work as it should.

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[foggyb]

Inaba did confirm, see OP:

Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees.  One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism.  If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it.

Heh.  Libertarians.  Speak up.  Is mail fraud scamming old people (admittedly the victims being not so bright) in the Libertarian playbook?  I must have missed that chapter.

From what I've been able to pick up out of the playbook without actually studying it, it seems that senile oldsters are weak and it is the place of the weak to be devoured by the strong in order for the world to work as it should.

Been reading Mein Kampf, have we?

[tvbcof]

Inaba did confirm, see OP:

Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees.  One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism.  If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it.

Heh.  Libertarians.  Speak up.  Is mail fraud scamming old people (admittedly the victims being not so bright) in the Libertarian playbook?  I must have missed that chapter.

From what I've been able to pick up out of the playbook without actually studying it, it seems that senile oldsters are weak and it is the place of the weak to be devoured by the strong in order for the world to work as it should.

Been reading Mein Kampf, have we?

No.  Just reading a portion of bitcointalk.org forum over the last year or so.  Prior to that a decade or so dead-space of actually working, but before that some time running across Libertarian prattle on usenet.

[foggyb]

Libertarian my ass. This is Nazism.

Code:

Because, once propagation as such has been limited and 
the number of births reduced, the natural struggle for 
existence, that allows only the very strongest and healthiest 
to survive, is replaced by the natural urge to 'save' at any 
price also the weakest and even sickest, thus planting the 
germ for a succession that is bound to become more and 
more miserable the longer this derision of Nature and of 
her will is continued. 

But the result will be that one day existence in this 
world will be denied such a people; because man may 
certainly defy the eternal law of the will to continue, but 
nevertheless revenge will come, sooner or later. A stronger 
generation will drive out the weaklings, because in its ulti- 
mate form the urge to live will again and again break the 
ridiculous fetters of a so-called * humanity' of the indi- 
vidual, so that its place will be taken by the 'humanity' of 
Nature which destroys weakness in order to give its place 
to strength. 

He who, therefore, would secure the German people's 
existence by way of a self-restriction of its increase robs it 
of its future. 

Excerpt from Mein Kampf, Hitler. He was obsessed with the "natural" dominance of strong over weak. Mein Kampf word count:

power, powerful: 442
old: 225
weak, weakling, weakness: 189

young: 148
strong: 107

freedom: 96
honor: 65
love: 48
justice: 35
morality: 18
liberty: 16
wealth: 13
mercy: 7
compassion: 1

[greyhawk]

Sounds more like Rand to me.

[tvbcof]

Libertarian my ass. This is Nazism.

Code:

Because, once propagation as such has been limited and 
the number of births reduced, the natural struggle for 
existence, that allows only the very strongest and healthiest 
to survive, is replaced by the natural urge to 'save' at any 
price also the weakest and even sickest, thus planting the 
germ for a succession that is bound to become more and 
more miserable the longer this derision of Nature and of 
her will is continued. 

But the result will be that one day existence in this 
world will be denied such a people; because man may 
certainly defy the eternal law of the will to continue, but 
nevertheless revenge will come, sooner or later. A stronger 
generation will drive out the weaklings, because in its ulti- 
mate form the urge to live will again and again break the 
ridiculous fetters of a so-called * humanity' of the indi- 
vidual, so that its place will be taken by the 'humanity' of 
Nature which destroys weakness in order to give its place 
to strength. 

He who, therefore, would secure the German people's 
existence by way of a self-restriction of its increase robs it 
of its future. 

Excerpt from Mein Kampf, Hitler.

Thanks for pointing out the remarkable overlap.

[WITRcenter]

I don't think I like BFL. And they seems really have done something serious immoral and illegal. But this time, to do some ASIC mining business is really profitable and realistic.  Why should they scam this time? They can earn more this time than they have earned in the previous scam.

Maybe we have to wait until the end of Oct to see whether they are scamming again this time or they decided to renew themselves. I heard other forum member told me that the CEO of BFL does not like to disclose his full name, maybe he is worrying about other people knowing about his past.  Since most of the miners has already paid their money, why not just calm down and  pray that they will be trying to be good guy.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

What a tangled web weaved.

http://www.indymtb.com/showthread.php?27584-BitCoin-Very-interesting

We used to do business with some folks in Costa Rica, who had created their own currency. The group was called Laissez Faire City. There's not much left of the organization on the net. James Orlin Grabbe was the brains behind their currency. You can research him if you like.

We dealt with them in the 90s. They lived in the former Nicaraguan (read Soviet) Embassy. Had a couple of former KGB agents working for them. Crazy fuckers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1958.msg40255#msg40255

You bet. I spotted via the Orlin Grabbe memorial website, http://orlingrabbe.com/, which is worth following for any number of reasons.

[greyhawk]

The KGB?

Great, now we're back to "Bitcoin is a massive SHA-256 brute force cracker botnet". Everyone was tooling for THE STAAAATE all along. 


Serioustalk:
Good find, Phinn.

[niko]

Inaba stated that that preorders were not used to fund development and that outside investments (VC, etc) were taken.

Ah. Hmm, there goes that theory I guess! :-)

Unless the "VC" actually means his own savings from a scam...?

A likely theory. It's a good way to launder some money I guess. You take pre-orders, but finance the production with dirty money. This way all the scam money is hidden as working capital and eventually extracted as clean profits.

I cannot figure it out, but hopefully some can: how much of the alleged 25M has been recovered?

[OneEyed]

Sure, that would be great.  The best choice would be our lead engineer in Paris, France or me.  I'm based out of Kansas City, Missouri.  Either of us would be happy to give you a quick demo when the product is ready for review.

I had a look at LinkedIn to check if the "lead engineer in Paris" happens to be a former student of mine, but I could not find anyone listing "Butterfly Labs" or "ButterflyLabs" as their company. Do they run by another name?

[nedbert9]

Sure, that would be great.  The best choice would be our lead engineer in Paris, France or me.  I'm based out of Kansas City, Missouri.  Either of us would be happy to give you a quick demo when the product is ready for review.

I had a look at LinkedIn to check if the "lead engineer in Paris" happens to be a former student of mine, but I could not find anyone listing "Butterfly Labs" or "ButterflyLabs" as their company. Do they run by another name?

BF Labs, Inc.

[Darktongue]

Question!!!!


So with ANY high dollar scammer today comes a good lawyer. If they are a scam... Minus the credit card transactions that can be reversed.. And the payment gateways that cab fight for your money back.. What of the bitcoin? Who's to say a good defence team for any of these bastards couldn't get them off?

Everyone including myself has asked the question.. is Bitcoin and crypto money real of It's not governed by the feds? Will a supreme court fight for it? THE AWNSER IS FUCK NO!! This project and the community behind it needs a fucking lawyer. I'm sorry as legitimate as some of us may be. As much as we can squak at the FBI and fed all day and night. We lack validation that millions have actually been handed out.

Also who's willing to admit to the fed they spent 15k of untaxed money? I sure as hell wouldn't..

But like a couple of coiners said.. we just have to wait... thumb up the ass sucking on the other thumb waiting for a shoe to fall.

[SysRun]

colorful and unproductive. to answer one of your many questions, wire fraud is well defined.

[OneEyed]

Sure, that would be great.  The best choice would be our lead engineer in Paris, France or me.  I'm based out of Kansas City, Missouri.  Either of us would be happy to give you a quick demo when the product is ready for review.

I had a look at LinkedIn to check if the "lead engineer in Paris" happens to be a former student of mine, but I could not find anyone listing "Butterfly Labs" or "ButterflyLabs" as their company. Do they run by another name?

BF Labs, Inc.

I haven't been luckier with this one.

[Darktongue]

How is it fraud of the currency isn't considered real? Sorry it seems I'm not tickleing anyone's noodles here.

The keyword that sticks out like a sore thumb.. and has for me since day one is "Experiment". use your imagination here.

Bitcoin is nothing more then elaborate very very neat software. It has a chain of shit along with it that keeps it going. in the case of BFL they have promised experimental hardware and have been mostly paid with said experimental money. A good lawyer though he or she would be an even bigger crook defending these people of they are frauds. could cause us all to shit the bed. These are not idiot facts. It's wordplay.. that's all a defence team really needs.

What proof do we have... experiments in transactions? Really? Maybe the few people who have.paid with fed money can throw the rusty hatchet at there heads but other then that I don't see this working out for the BTC end of things... unless as said some new words are put into play

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Sure, that would be great.  The best choice would be our lead engineer in Paris, France or me.  I'm based out of Kansas City, Missouri.  Either of us would be happy to give you a quick demo when the product is ready for review.

I had a look at LinkedIn to check if the "lead engineer in Paris" happens to be a former student of mine, but I could not find anyone listing "Butterfly Labs" or "ButterflyLabs" as their company. Do they run by another name?

BF Labs, Inc.

I haven't been luckier with this one.

Try this: http://america.webtropy.com/web/Company/Regency%20Black%20Investment%20Funds/Company.aspx

Sonny
Vleisides
Regency Black Investment Funds
sonny@lfcity.com
506 272-4576
506 272-1714
"SECURITY BROKERS, DEALERS & FLOTATION COMPANIES"

lfcity is Laissez Faire City.

[crazy_rabbit]

To  be fair, Butterfly labs other then being a bit slow on orders (which happens to normal companies all the time as a result of various reasons) they have fulfilled all their promises so far, right? They produce high quality  machines,  they show up at the conference, they do research and dev (They showed off a prototype ASIC at the conference).

So perhaps the CEO is a former crook, which yes- sounds terrible, but it feels like the pot calling the kettle black for this community to be so judgemental. :-)

So  far- they've filled their promises: promises  that are more difficult to fill then just returning 7% interest per week.

We should cut them some slack- but yes it's good to know.

[salty]

When is the next delivery date for their ASCI miner?

Code:

                    ___
                 .-' \\".
                /`    ;--:
               |     (  (_)==
               |_ ._ '.__.;
               \_/`--_---_(
                (`--(./-\.)
                `|     _\ |
                 | \  __ /
                /|  '.__/
             .'` \     |_
          bfl     '-__ / `-

Sorry couldn't resist.....

[Gabi]

How is it fraud of the currency isn't considered real? Sorry it seems I'm not tickleing anyone's noodles here

What matter is the value

And right now 1 btc is worth 12.5$ or so. And if i steal 12.5$, police will put me in the jail!