Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[the_thing]

mistake, error, lapse in judgement, crime, whatever. Its all the same in this context as far as I am concerned. Hows about we just agree that its "doing something wrong in the past that makes us concerned, dilligent and watchful, but certainly not forgetful, and we might be able to conditionally overlook or forgive". We all have our own conditions.

I know people who have done wrong in the past and they are good people who can do good things. I also know the opposite. Lets just say that I am an optimist. Dont let me down BFL!

So if I understand this correctly, according to your laws of euphemisms "Did a little boo-boo" is about equivalent to "Shot that dude in the face and pissed in his eye socket."

The guy was a central figure in a scam to bilk the elderly that succeeded to the tune of $19M. That wasn't a mistake, it was exactly what they intended. It just makes him a grade A asshole.

This.
I don't understand how people can advocate a multi-millon fraud as childish shenanigans. I mean, damn, he ripped off hunderds of people, some of them lost their life savings and you just say 'Don't let me down BFL!'? Fucking 19 million dollars. He didn't even bother to let us know. And when we found out he didn't even bother to come here and talk to his customers. Instead, he sent Inaba to call you idiots in all of his posts. Wake up, he's already fucking you in the ass!

'..we might be able to conditionally overlook or forgive'? Seriously? You just close your eyes and pretend nothing happened and hope everything will be alright? Oh, let's just release Manson and Breivik. They're good guys, after all. Made a few mistakes, but hey, we're going to be diligent and watchful and we might be able to overlook and forgive. Conditionally, of course!

Inaba was right all along. You are idiots.

[MPOE-PR]

This.
I don't understand how people can advocate a multi-millon fraud as childish shenanigans. I mean, damn, he ripped off hunderds of people, some of them lost their life savings and you just say 'Don't let me down BFL!'? Fucking 19 million dollars. He didn't even bother to let us know. And when we found out he didn't even bother to come here and talk to his customers. Instead, he sent Inaba to call you idiots in all of his posts.

This'd be a little problematic.

Euphemisms. Am I doing it Rite?

[Rassah]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

[niko]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

Not refer to it as "colorful background in off-shore libertarianism"

[Bitinvestor]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

Clean toilets somewhere, not run a company that makes "washing machines" and handles millions of dollars.

[The_Duke]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

Be honest about what happened, instead of hiding it. But honesty isn't one of his core traits, as we have discovered.

[Jutarul]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

Spending jail time does not prove change of character. There is only one way such a person can regain the trust of their peers: Someone has to vouch for him. Preferably someone with a huge stake in their reputation.

Any volunteers?

[Bitinvestor]

Spending jail time does not prove change of character. There is only one way such a person can regain the trust of their peers: Someone has to vouch for him. Preferably someone with a huge stake in their reputation.

Any volunteers?

You mean like what Meni Rosenfeld did with Alberto Armandi (or vice versa)? LOL, that worked well!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0

I didn't follow the story closely, but I think Alberto is a serial scammer who got Meni to vouch for him and then ran off.

Edit: Here is Meni's summary:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1204361#msg1204361

[the_thing]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

So he spent two years in jail for a multi-million scam and then he somehow became an honest man. Magic! I wonder how it works.

Spending jail time does not prove change of character. There is only one way such a person can regain the trust of their peers: Someone has to vouch for him. Preferably someone with a huge stake in their reputation.

Any volunteers?

Matthew will be glad to do that.

[Jutarul]

Spending jail time does not prove change of character. There is only one way such a person can regain the trust of their peers: Someone has to vouch for him. Preferably someone with a huge stake in their reputation.

Any volunteers?

You mean like what Meni Rosenfeld did with Alberto Armandi (or vice versa)? LOL, that worked well!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0

I didn't follow the story closely, but I think Alberto is a serial scammer who got Meni to vouch for him and then ran off.

Edit: Here is Meni's summary:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1204361#msg1204361

Well - usually reputable people are careful about whom they vouch for. Problem is there's never a 100% guarantee.
The more systematic form of vouching is insurance. But I don't think anybody wants to offer insurance against a potential BFL scam? Is there?

[the_thing]

Spending jail time does not prove change of character. There is only one way such a person can regain the trust of their peers: Someone has to vouch for him. Preferably someone with a huge stake in their reputation.

Any volunteers?

You mean like what Meni Rosenfeld did with Alberto Armandi (or vice versa)? LOL, that worked well!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0

I didn't follow the story closely, but I think Alberto is a serial scammer who got Meni to vouch for him and then ran off.

Edit: Here is Meni's summary:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1204361#msg1204361

Well - usually reputable people are careful about whom they vouch for. Problem is there's never a 100% guarantee.
The more systematic form of vouching is insurance. But I don't think anybody wants to offer insurance against a potential BFL scam? Is there?

Well, it depends on the terms. Statistically, there is a certain chance that BFL is a scam and a chance that it is not a scam. How much and under what conditions are you willing to pay me for an insurance?

[Bitinvestor]

Well - usually reputable people are careful about whom they vouch for. Problem is there's never a 100% guarantee.
The more systematic form of vouching is insurance. But I don't think anybody wants to offer insurance against a potential BFL scam? Is there?

Yes, there is: Never invest more than you can afford to lose.

[Jutarul]

Well, it depends on the terms. Statistically, there is a certain chance that BFL is a scam and a chance that it is not a scam. How much and under what conditions are you willing to pay me for an insurance?

I didn't invest in BFL. But if I had I'd gladly pay a 10%-20% extra for my peace of mind.

[repentance]

He did spend two years in jail for it. What more should he do?

Not refer to it as "colorful background in off-shore libertarianism"

This.

[Jutarul]

The only way for a felon ex-convict to make it these days is to be an entrepreneur, because few if any will employ him for anything more than unskilled labor wages regardless of his actual skills or use of them on the job.

Makes me want to look at the CV of the guy... especially the vision statement.

[Viceroy]

I've read through this thread with great enthusiasm, you see I want to buy several Butterfly Labs Super Computers.  So here's the offer, Inaba and BFL_Sonny...

I will purchase (35) BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems if I can pick them up at your facility.  I can provide cash, a check or bitcoins upon delivery, whichever you prefer.  You can PM me here.

I tried the number on your website but it appears to be a 'google voice' phone number, so I'm sure the wires got crossed somewhere between Colorado and your facility.

To confirm I will spend $1,050,000 with your company today if you can deliver on your promised specs on 35 of the BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems.  I'd expect you'd include the rack but if not I can use one of my own, please provide rack mounting specifications before my pick-up.

I need to know the estimated delivery date and the location of your facility.  Please contact me directly or have your VP of sales contact me right away.  Thanks!

[dust]

I've read through this thread with great enthusiasm, you see I want to buy several Butterfly Labs Super Computers.  So here's the offer, Inaba and BFL_Sonny...

I will purchase (35) BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems if I can pick them up at your facility.  I can provide cash, a check or bitcoins upon delivery, whichever you prefer.  You can PM me here.

I tried the number on your website but it appears to be a 'google voice' phone number, so I'm sure the wires got crossed somewhere between Colorado and your facility.

To confirm I will spend $1,050,000 with your company today if you can deliver on your promised specs on 35 of the BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems.  I'd expect you'd include the rack but if not I can use one of my own, please provide rack mounting specifications before my pick-up.

I need to know the estimated delivery date and the location of your facility.  Please contact me directly or have your VP of sales contact me right away.  Thanks!

Bullshit.  This is the guy who was asking for 25BTC to form an LLC to start a bank for medical marijuana sellers. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106562.msg1170935#msg1170935

[Desolator]

I've read through this thread with great enthusiasm, you see I want to buy several Butterfly Labs Super Computers.  So here's the offer, Inaba and BFL_Sonny...

I will purchase (35) BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems if I can pick them up at your facility.  I can provide cash, a check or bitcoins upon delivery, whichever you prefer.  You can PM me here.

I tried the number on your website but it appears to be a 'google voice' phone number, so I'm sure the wires got crossed somewhere between Colorado and your facility.

To confirm I will spend $1,050,000 with your company today if you can deliver on your promised specs on 35 of the BitForce Mini Rig 'SC' systems.  I'd expect you'd include the rack but if not I can use one of my own, please provide rack mounting specifications before my pick-up.

I need to know the estimated delivery date and the location of your facility.  Please contact me directly or have your VP of sales contact me right away.  Thanks!

So besides the fact that their website says "Butterfly Labs is a manufacturing facility and is not setup for product pickup" and besides that fact that you're probably lying, their page for the info about the ASIC release says:

Will you limit supply to would be 51% attackers? We absolutely will not knowingly sell hardware to a client if we feel they pose a threat to any network (and 32 rigs is too many for 1 person to own).

And several people have posted their address already lol.

Also...

Bullshit.  This is the guy who was asking for 25BTC to form an LLC to start a bank for medical marijuana sellers. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106562.msg1170935#msg1170935

lol!

[punningclan]

I'm glad to hear it from the OP since it from probably means that all these new THashes don't exist either.

[repentance]

Unless you believe in the death penalty for crimes like Sonny did, you pretty much need to believe in the possibility of rehabilitation.

I absolutely agree with you.  That doesn't mean that rehabilitation should be assumed without evidence, though.  When someone is still trying to minimise and justify their past transgressions, I have concerns about the extent to which their attitude towards criminality has changed and whether they're going to operate from a basis of whatever they can get away with.

BFL could fail for reasons totally unrelated to Sonny.  It's a high risk venture in and of itself.  Unfortunately, the spin which BFL employees have put on Sonny's "colourful past" makes me question whether their statements regarding their actual products and the basic health of the company are also primarily spin.