Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[elux]

To be added:

8 ) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204375.0;all

It's not like there's a top bitcoin pool in Kansas City or anything... oh wait...
Dhenson: consummate idiot.
Feel like defending your intelligence now?

I'm sorry, but the coincidence is just too great to ignore.  Of all the 30,000+ cities in the United States, the largest concentration of U.S. hashing is situated in your backyard and yet we are to believe that you aren't involved?  Really?

You didn't even bother to deny it, you simply jumped straight to the personal attack.  This is a well known tactic used by companies all over the world to discourage dissent in online forums.  You sir do, it well.

It simply isn't possible for Josh to spout off like this and keep his job if he didn't have the consent of his boss(es).  Why would the company support this flagrant behavior if not to discourage dissent whilst continuing to ram the proverbial hashing rod deep within our collective rectum?

Why would I try to convince anyone that I'm not involved with that node? (It's actually a set of nodes)  Are you serious?

9 ) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207331.0;all

Orders 2030, 2158, 1000033476 - Paid for via BTC - 4 x Single SC 60GH/s units

---


On May 16, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Butterfly Labs Inc wrote:

Dear Christian,

It has been relayed to me that you are unhappy with our company and I was asked to cancel your orders. If you would send me a PayPal address I will send your money back to you ASAP.

Jody
BF Labs, Inc.

----

My response;

---

I am sorry, but that is erroneous.

I have never asked for, nor do I wish to receive a refund.

I have been patiently waiting for over 11 months now, and still have faith Butterfly Labs will deliver product.

Regards,

Well, what do you know, butterflies in jackboots...

Since BFL's ASIC announcment last summer, Bitcoin as appreciated by almost ~20X.
Assuming you bought a minirig for about half a million dollars at today's exchange rate,
and you dare complain, and it displeases them, they can arbitrarily cancel your order,
refund 30000 USD and keep the ~5000BTC difference.

Attn. Josh & Sonny:

please go and Die In A Fire.

Sincerely,
-elux.

(On behalf of the silent victims.)

[MooC Tals]

lol I believe we need an advertising campaign. Create a foundation and start advertising bfl's practices. Bring awareness to world.

On second thought is it not the responsibility of the bitcoin foundation to look after the well being of its herd?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

To prove what I've stated earlier: (from Nov. 6, 2011) http://kc.asmpstage.org/kcma/wp/?m=20111106

Thanks to presenters:  John Mutrux, Chris Vleisides, Jeff Evrard and Jeremy Ruzich and  to board members Tom Elfter and  Robin Lorenson for helping with the logistics.

Jody Drake lives with John Mutrux and cleans the chicken coop together.

From 7/4/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.buddha.short.fat.guy/1YbzhqvjQKY

Jody Drake (jo...@mutrux.com)

[MooC Tals]

To prove what I've stated earlier: (from Nov. 6, 2011) http://kc.asmpstage.org/kcma/wp/?m=20111106

Thanks to presenters:  John Mutrux, Chris Vleisides, Jeff Evrard and Jeremy Ruzich and  to board members Tom Elfter and  Robin Lorenson for helping with the logistics.

Jody Drake lives with John Mutrux and cleans the chicken coop together.

From 7/4/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.buddha.short.fat.guy/1YbzhqvjQKY

Jody Drake (jo...@mutrux.com)

I seem to have trouble connecting dots if there are any was this a response to my post? How is it any connection to what I have said? Is Chris Vleisides the connection here?

[Xian01]

Nice thread !

[Phinnaeus Gage]

To prove what I've stated earlier: (from Nov. 6, 2011) http://kc.asmpstage.org/kcma/wp/?m=20111106

Thanks to presenters:  John Mutrux, Chris Vleisides, Jeff Evrard and Jeremy Ruzich and  to board members Tom Elfter and  Robin Lorenson for helping with the logistics.

Jody Drake lives with John Mutrux and cleans the chicken coop together.

From 7/4/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.buddha.short.fat.guy/1YbzhqvjQKY

Jody Drake (jo...@mutrux.com)

I seem to have trouble connecting dots if there are any was this a response to my post? How is it any connection to what I have said? Is Chris Vleisides the connection here?

It's related to the topic of this thread and not necessarily to any of your recent post(s), but relative to Chist Vleisides who is Sonny's step dad. Sonny was all too familiar with the following prior to taking off to Italy where he got arrested: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2010/03/toward-private-digital-economy.html

In April 2004, Wavyhill and Andre Goldman published a landmark achievement in the movement towards anonymous digital cash entitled, "Toward A Private Digital Economy: Trusted Transactions in an Anonymous World". The video presentation from DEF CON 12 can be seen here. It is significant in that it is one of the few written pieces that anticipates the forced closure of digital-issuing mints by the authorities. What is explored is the establishment of a trusted central mint that operates anonymously and therefore can remain operational in the face of direct governmental threats and assaults. From the abstract:

Once extradited to the US, he was slapped with a $100 USD fine probation of which some claim he has broken by being affiliated with BFL.

AnonymousMarch 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM
the best audit is getting your value back

http://pktp.co.cc is working towards a distributed system

Reply

Quick aside: I found something via what was mentioned as a comment (directly above) to the text I linked further above: http://web.archive.org/web/20120316073652/http://pktp.co.cc/

A long time ago on a slightly different internet...
I had a dream, a passion, a belief that we could all trade safe, secure and privately.

This dream has been trodden on kicked, assulted and stolen. It is still alive and a passion that I will always keep. For a brief while transactions flourished in different safe havens, commerce would develope, ideas would take tangeable form and goods and services would flow. These periods came under attack when fears of money laundering and neferious activities prompted the siezure of assets and the crippling of trade with extreme 'know your customer' regulations.

I firmly stand against any criminal behaviour. Transactions should be honest, trustable and private. One day I am sure that an electronic transaction system will be in place that replaces the majority of cash transactions. If an electronic transactional system is developed by corporations or governments as a more cash like version of EFTPOS, I feel that it is bound to violate the rights and privacy of all who use it. It is my purpose to try to develop such a system that protects the rights of the transacting parties.

My vision is a distributed public key infrastructure based transactional signing system that provides secure settlement, confidence in the transaction and a high degree of privacy.

I am developing this as I undertake an electronic and communications degree. I hope to be able to produce an opensource chip design (written in IEEE-VHDL) that can be used for a smart card as an electronic wallet.

As this is an ongoing project, please do not consider this as an existing form of money, a place to launder your ill gotten gains or a great medium for your next HYIP or Ponzi plan. I am looking for people willing to test, probe for weaknesses or just enjoy the prototype systems.

Probably not Satoshi due to the myriad of grammatical errors (in yellow)... unless that's what he wants us to believe.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Since this thread is about Sonny, and a connection has already been established with J. Orlin Grabbe, let's further dig deeper to see what we can find.

WHOIS for http://dmt.orlingrabbe.com

Address:

Grabbe, Orlin
350 South Center Street
Suite 500
Reno, NV 89501
USA

Phone: +1-775-333-1139

President:   Robert S. Michaels
 

Director NAS Europe:   Martin U. Schlaepfer
 
Headquarters:

 Northamerican Sureties, Ltd.
350 South Center Street, Suite 500
Reno, Nevada 89501
USA


Tel:     1-775-333-1155

http://www.fbi.gov/newark/press-releases/2010/nk100610.htm

TRENTON, NJ—A former California sureties broker was sentenced today to 18 months in federal prison for his scheme to defraud a New Jersey company of approximately $800,000, United States Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced.

Robert S. Michaels, 64, currently of Park City, Utah, previously pleaded guilty to a count of wire fraud before United States District Judge Mary L. Cooper, who also imposed the sentence today in Trenton federal court.

According to documents filed in this case and statements made in court:

In June 2002, Michaels was a principal of a company called North American Sureties (“NAS”) located in Los Angeles. NAS was in the business of obtaining surety bonds for customers to guarantee commercial loans, among other purposes.

Michaels offered to obtain a surety bond on behalf of an individual identified in court documents as “J.V.” who owned a business called Phoenix World Wide Limited (“Phoenix”) in Monmouth County, N.J.

The following is the J.V. mentioned above: http://www.app.com/article/20120701/NJBIZ/307010012/1003/BUSINESS&source=rss?nclick_check=1

Joseph Venables had lost $800,000 in a business deal that soured, when the man who defrauded him cut a deal with the judge. The man said he knew of a massive tax fraud. He would file a whistle-blower claim with the IRS. And he would share the reward with Venables.

More than four years later, the man is out of prison and Venables remains in limbo. The Internal Revenue Service won't tell him - or any of his elected representatives - the claim's status. And he's beginning to wonder if the hours he has spent pursuing this money has been a waste of time.

"They give you gobbledygook," Venables, 79, of Wall,

[MooC Tals]

To prove what I've stated earlier: (from Nov. 6, 2011) http://kc.asmpstage.org/kcma/wp/?m=20111106

Thanks to presenters:  John Mutrux, Chris Vleisides, Jeff Evrard and Jeremy Ruzich and  to board members Tom Elfter and  Robin Lorenson for helping with the logistics.

Jody Drake lives with John Mutrux and cleans the chicken coop together.

From 7/4/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/alt.buddha.short.fat.guy/1YbzhqvjQKY

Jody Drake (jo...@mutrux.com)

I seem to have trouble connecting dots if there are any was this a response to my post? How is it any connection to what I have said? Is Chris Vleisides the connection here?

It's related to the topic of this thread and not necessarily to any of your recent post(s), but relative to Chist Vleisides who is Sonny's step dad. Sonny was all too familiar with the following prior to taking off to Italy where he got arrested: http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2010/03/toward-private-digital-economy.html

In April 2004, Wavyhill and Andre Goldman published a landmark achievement in the movement towards anonymous digital cash entitled, "Toward A Private Digital Economy: Trusted Transactions in an Anonymous World". The video presentation from DEF CON 12 can be seen here. It is significant in that it is one of the few written pieces that anticipates the forced closure of digital-issuing mints by the authorities. What is explored is the establishment of a trusted central mint that operates anonymously and therefore can remain operational in the face of direct governmental threats and assaults. From the abstract:

Once extradited to the US, he was slapped with a $100 USD fine probation of which some claim he has broken by being affiliated with BFL.

AnonymousMarch 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM
the best audit is getting your value back

http://pktp.co.cc is working towards a distributed system

Reply

Quick aside: I found something via what was mentioned as a comment (directly above) to the text I linked further above: http://web.archive.org/web/20120316073652/http://pktp.co.cc/

A long time ago on a slightly different internet...
I had a dream, a passion, a belief that we could all trade safe, secure and privately.

This dream has been trodden on kicked, assulted and stolen. It is still alive and a passion that I will always keep. For a brief while transactions flourished in different safe havens, commerce would develope, ideas would take tangeable form and goods and services would flow. These periods came under attack when fears of money laundering and neferious activities prompted the siezure of assets and the crippling of trade with extreme 'know your customer' regulations.

I firmly stand against any criminal behaviour. Transactions should be honest, trustable and private. One day I am sure that an electronic transaction system will be in place that replaces the majority of cash transactions. If an electronic transactional system is developed by corporations or governments as a more cash like version of EFTPOS, I feel that it is bound to violate the rights and privacy of all who use it. It is my purpose to try to develop such a system that protects the rights of the transacting parties.

My vision is a distributed public key infrastructure based transactional signing system that provides secure settlement, confidence in the transaction and a high degree of privacy.

I am developing this as I undertake an electronic and communications degree. I hope to be able to produce an opensource chip design (written in IEEE-VHDL) that can be used for a smart card as an electronic wallet.

As this is an ongoing project, please do not consider this as an existing form of money, a place to launder your ill gotten gains or a great medium for your next HYIP or Ponzi plan. I am looking for people willing to test, probe for weaknesses or just enjoy the prototype systems.

Probably not Satoshi due to the myriad of grammatical errors (in yellow)... unless that's what he wants us to believe.

Well its not a far stretch however ever since the 70's everyone has been talking about a cashless society from what I have been hearing. Judging how CIA work to infiltrate everything they can get their hands into I can see Satoshi being the Jesus Christ figure to create the new religion called bitcoin. After all you can't destroy an Idea when its time has come right?

or am I off base here? I would not put anything past those super criminals.

[elux]

Another point to be moved to the OP for visibility...

10 ) "Oh but it was just an innocent unsanctioned lottery, and everyone knows what happens when you cross the gov't."

Hum, could it be that his only "crime" was defying the state monopoly on lotteries? (what is not a real crime at all)
If the letters sent didn't lie about how the prizes would be (amounts and everything), then there's no fraud actually.

But anyways, even if there's no real crime, one may still question this guy's moral character.

If the DOJ testimony is accurate, then this was clearly not merely unsanctioned gambling:

Some of the money was spent on furthering the criminal activity.

Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings.

The rest of the money was paid out to the co-schemers and others for their own use.

VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent.

The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.

This directly contradicts Inaba/BFL_Josh's story, though not necessarily the story he was originally told.

In conclusion, there was NO WAY investors could win. It was massive, organized fraud and the theft of old ladies savings.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Well its not a far stretch however ever since the 70's everyone has been talking about a cashless society from what I have been hearing. Judging how CIA work to infiltrate everything they can get their hands into I can see Satoshi being the Jesus Christ figure to create the new religion called bitcoin. After all you can't destroy an Idea when its time has come right?

or am I off base here? I would not put anything past those super criminals.

But it's not too far of a stretch to connect Sonny's involvement with Laissez Faire City and the lottery scam he helped mastermind with his late real father.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.docstoc.com%2Fdocs%2F141098769%2FAmerican-Companies-Business-Directory&ei=ueGXUfuqJ6fDywGwooBQ&usg=AFQjCNHp96MYbrpkeCfqQIdtNcrrAIrk4Q&sig2=Mri9vD0pzCAK9Q-0-uZRPA&bvm=bv.46751780,d.aWc

Sonny Vleisides Investment Funds sonny@lfcity.com

It's all connected: The Laissez Faire City scam, DMT and the lottery scam. There's at least two other members on this forum directly connected with the Laissez Faire City episode who can shed more light on this subject, but they're not talking.

Laissez Faire City Founders looking for revenge?

http://web.archive.org/web/20000301124449/http://zolatimes.com/V3.44/dmt1.html

This article describes an Internet-based anonymous banking project, known as The Digital Monetary Trust, Ltd. The Digital Monetary Trust (hereafter: DMT) is a proposed financial trust (which may be optionally viewed as a mutual fund, or a money market fund) all of whose assets will be invested in cash, commodities (such as gold), and high-quality (low credit-risk) securities denominated in various national currencies. DMT is a Laissez Faire City corporation.

THE SUNDAY TIMES
News: page 6
HEADLINE: Laissez Faire City:  Queue forms for capitalist utopia

"It is an amazing adventure, aimed at freeing the potential of the
world's entrepreneurs from the vice of collectivism," said Sonny Vleisides,
a computing consultant who is among the founders.

No taxes or bureaucracy in planned libertarian paradise

"Some of them have been sending us unsolicited money, which is more than we asked for," said Sonny Vleisides, editor of the Laissez Faire City Times, the newsletter sent to every prospective founder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe#Laissez_Faire_City_Times

In November 1997, Orlin Grabbe was invited to edit an online weekly newspaper called the Laissez Faire City Times. The newspaper was loosely connected to the Laissez Faire City project based in Costa Rica. Grabbe relocated to Costa Rica the following year.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

More from Laissez Faire City Founders looking for revenge?

By: Simon Jester

The Laissez Faire City programmers <of which Sonny Vleisides was one>, in essence the paid friends of James Ray Houston <Sonny's real dad> and his live in companions at the fake "Consulado " in San Jose, Costa Rica, are the architects and designers of DMT.

Half of all founders "grants" were funneled to the developement of DMT, that amounts to 3 grand per and none of the outside( as opposed to the "inside" group) founders were aware of this until the end, just before James Ray Houston looted the_ secure_online ATM ( also a product of LFC programmers).

J. Orlin Grabbe was known to take credit for the invention of Laissez Faire City, though it was always represented to founders as the brainchild of James Ray Houston. Under the pseudo nym of Midas Mulligan. Houston had many names, nyms and aliases.

Certainly Mr. Houston controlled the money, set up the trust with fraudulent signatures, rented the "consulado", named an employee as the trustee, made agreements to pay Ian Fraser(as well as others) a percentage of the suckers he could steer to LFC <Josh Zerlan plays the role of Ian Fraser> and Mr. Houston and his cocaine habit were blamed for the downfall of the
brilliantly conceived but "somehow" it just did not work out business plan.
The banking information trail says Houston and family collected the funds. <Sonny was family>

Grabbe has less and less to say about his part in LFC as it becomes more and more clear how big a scam it was.

DMT shares were SUPPOSED to be given to founders to make up for the money lost or outright stolen, and this carrot was held out to keep founders quiet. The DMT shares have "somehow" not been distributed. Just after Houston ran off with the money, the founders were told to buy DMT til it hurt, keep the value up.
I think I have copies of those posts, really funny, [yellow=red,2,300]the convoluted logic would cause holes in the space time continuum.[/glow]

First, read this post here at KYC News/Offshore Business:
http://www.offshorebusiness.com/message_board_detail.asp?id=10811&page=1

Note these resources mentioned there that identify the techniques of a disinformation/smear artist:

[1] Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth:
The Rules of Disinformation
(Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist)
by H. Michael Sweeney
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/disinfo.htm

[2] How to Recognize a Skunk
Or
Why Most Americans Can't Think -- But You Can
By Aaron Zelman and Claire Wolfe
http://www.jpfo.org/skunk.htm

Posted: 10/23/2003 11:03:09 PM

By: Is this OUR Johann Gevers?

From: http://www.adaptiveai.com/news/oldnews.htm

"Plus, we now have another investor supporting our project: Johann Gevers – a futurist and friend – has made an initial contribution, and is increasing his holding on a monthly basis."

Is this our financial auditor throwing around some cash?

Making investments to hit the big time? Using OUR money?

From: http://www.adaptiveai.com/news/oldnews.htm

Friends of a2i2,

This time:

Meet Michael,
Overview of our technical status,
Another call for additional team members.
Plus, we now have another investor supporting our project: Johann Gevers - a futurist and friend - has made an initial contribution, and is increasing his holding on a monthly basis.

<snip>

Finally, we may be getting close to actually being able to use some remote, part-time help with specific aspects of our system (such as vision, sound, virtual world, etc.). Please subscribe to our tech list, if you are potentially interested in participating: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a2i2Tech

Please contact me for further details - peter@optimal.org

Towards Increased Intelligence,

Peter Voss

Anybody heard of this Peter Voss?

You folks need to read the whole page in its entirety and in content, for I'm only pulling out some nuggets: http://mail.kycnews.com/Forums.aspx?g=posts&t=37042

14 - Meanwhile, the "staff" were busily consuming
pizzas, drinking in the City Club, etc. Seemingly,
doing everything except work. (my observations, I was
there). "Staff" had yet to produce any workable
products. <Sounds like Butterfly Labs with Sonny at the helm.>

16 - Well, one day, Dino apparently started looking at
the code and the "staff" decided it was a piece of
junk and had to be rewritten using their new jim-dandy
techniques that they had been reading about on the web
and their magazines. <He's talking about what Sonny wrote.>

The "staff" considered me sort of a "cowboy,
renegade, whatever". <LMAO>

I even heard
predictions about how Mailvault was going to put
Hotmail out of business, etc. <Think Avalon.>

20 - Well, after about two of these fluff dinners, I
began asking questions (embarassing ones) of all the
"staff". Things like, does it have attachments?, are
there any filters?, are the servers really
distributed?.
21 - Well, this enflamed the "staff" to such a degree
that these dinners became shouting matches. JOG and
Code Crusader were there. This was before they took
over the "staff".
22 - It even became so bad at one point that I was
theoretically "fired" for voicing my opinion of
"staffs" competence. <Sonny is at the table.>

49 - Well, one day, I get a knock on my door and there
is Trusty, looking like a wet dog. Seems he could not
cover ATM withdrawals because Rex had all the money
tied up in various bank accounts... Surprise,
surprise... <Rex, is Sonny's real dad. Image the same scenario playing out at Butterfly Labs. Which one of the principals do you think has supreme control over the coffer(s)?>

Editorial comment.... You may not believe this,
but my take on the whole situation is .

a. - The whole LFCity thing was a "half baked",
idealist idea that never really had a chance to
succeed because it was plagued with "non achievers",
glad handers, pseudo-gurus, etc.

b. - I really do not think Rex was out to "scam"
anybody. <Just like some will say that Sonny was not really out to scam anybody, but...> It is just his nature to play the big time
banker, Hollywood producer, big shot, etc.
It just got out of hand and he could not cover his
debts.
Granted, he should not have been playing with ATM,
LFCity money the way he was, but he was warned many
times about it.
JOG, CC, Robert, JSE, etc. were all well aware of what
was going on, but they continued to ride the gravy
train. As soon as they stopped getting paid, they
screamed like stuck pigs. <Image Josh doing the same thing sometime in the future.> JOG and CC screamed
because founder positions stopped coming in. (JOG got
1/2 of every $6000 position).

c. - The MAIN reason LFC failed is simply because
there were too many years of non-performance and
non-delivery of products to make it "real". <akin to ASIC-based mining rigs by BFL> The gravy
train was parked at the dock, come on down, you do not
really have to do anything, just smile and slap me on
the back... etc... <The gravy train has left the station, but those still waiting, make sure you don't give up your queue in line in case she comes back around.>

<snip>

Steve

FUN FACT: Would it surprise you to learn that the majority of the above quoted was from a fellow Bitcoiner? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49706

[MPOE-PR]

Well its not a far stretch however ever since the 70's everyone has been talking about a cashless society from what I have been hearing. Judging how CIA work to infiltrate everything they can get their hands into I can see Satoshi being the Jesus Christ figure to create the new religion called bitcoin. After all you can't destroy an Idea when its time has come right?

or am I off base here? I would not put anything past those super criminals.

But it's not too far of a stretch to connect Sonny's involvement with Laissez Faire City and the lottery scam he helped mastermind with his with late real father.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.docstoc.com%2Fdocs%2F141098769%2FAmerican-Companies-Business-Directory&ei=ueGXUfuqJ6fDywGwooBQ&usg=AFQjCNHp96MYbrpkeCfqQIdtNcrrAIrk4Q&sig2=Mri9vD0pzCAK9Q-0-uZRPA&bvm=bv.46751780,d.aWc

Sonny Vleisides Investment Funds sonny@lfcity.com

It's all connected: The Laissez Faire City scam, DMT and the lottery scam. There's at least two other members on this forum directly connected with the Laissez Faire City episode who can shed more light on this subject, but they're not talking.

Laissez Faire City Founders looking for revenge?

http://web.archive.org/web/20000301124449/http://zolatimes.com/V3.44/dmt1.html

This article describes an Internet-based anonymous banking project, known as The Digital Monetary Trust, Ltd. The Digital Monetary Trust (hereafter: DMT) is a proposed financial trust (which may be optionally viewed as a mutual fund, or a money market fund) all of whose assets will be invested in cash, commodities (such as gold), and high-quality (low credit-risk) securities denominated in various national currencies. DMT is a Laissez Faire City corporation.

THE SUNDAY TIMES
News: page 6
HEADLINE: Laissez Faire City:  Queue forms for capitalist utopia

"It is an amazing adventure, aimed at freeing the potential of the
world's entrepreneurs from the vice of collectivism," said Sonny Vleisides,
a computing consultant who is among the founders.

No taxes or bureaucracy in planned libertarian paradise

"Some of them have been sending us unsolicited money, which is more than we asked for," said Sonny Vleisides, editor of the Laissez Faire City Times, the newsletter sent to every prospective founder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe#Laissez_Faire_City_Times

In November 1997, Orlin Grabbe was invited to edit an online weekly newspaper called the Laissez Faire City Times. The newspaper was loosely connected to the Laissez Faire City project based in Costa Rica. Grabbe relocated to Costa Rica the following year.

I'm kinda curious about all that myself.

[MooC Tals]

More from Laissez Faire City Founders looking for revenge?

By: Simon Jester

The Laissez Faire City programmers <of which Sonny Vleisides was one>, in essence the paid friends of James Ray Houston <Sonny's real dad> and his live in companions at the fake "Consulado " in San Jose, Costa Rica, are the architects and designers of DMT.

Half of all founders "grants" were funneled to the developement of DMT, that amounts to 3 grand per and none of the outside( as opposed to the "inside" group) founders were aware of this until the end, just before James Ray Houston looted the_ secure_online ATM ( also a product of LFC programmers).

J. Orlin Grabbe was known to take credit for the invention of Laissez Faire City, though it was always represented to founders as the brainchild of James Ray Houston. Under the pseudo nym of Midas Mulligan. Houston had many names, nyms and aliases.

Certainly Mr. Houston controlled the money, set up the trust with fraudulent signatures, rented the "consulado", named an employee as the trustee, made agreements to pay Ian Fraser(as well as others) a percentage of the suckers he could steer to LFC <Josh Zerlan plays the role of Ian Fraser> and Mr. Houston and his cocaine habit were blamed for the downfall of the
brilliantly conceived but "somehow" it just did not work out business plan.
The banking information trail says Houston and family collected the funds. <Sonny was family>

Grabbe has less and less to say about his part in LFC as it becomes more and more clear how big a scam it was.

DMT shares were SUPPOSED to be given to founders to make up for the money lost or outright stolen, and this carrot was held out to keep founders quiet. The DMT shares have "somehow" not been distributed. Just after Houston ran off with the money, the founders were told to buy DMT til it hurt, keep the value up.
I think I have copies of those posts, really funny, [yellow=red,2,300]the convoluted logic would cause holes in the space time continuum.[/glow]

First, read this post here at KYC News/Offshore Business:
http://www.offshorebusiness.com/message_board_detail.asp?id=10811&page=1

Note these resources mentioned there that identify the techniques of a disinformation/smear artist:

[1] Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth:
The Rules of Disinformation
(Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist)
by H. Michael Sweeney
http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/disinfo.htm

[2] How to Recognize a Skunk
Or
Why Most Americans Can't Think -- But You Can
By Aaron Zelman and Claire Wolfe
http://www.jpfo.org/skunk.htm

Posted: 10/23/2003 11:03:09 PM

By: Is this OUR Johann Gevers?

From: http://www.adaptiveai.com/news/oldnews.htm

"Plus, we now have another investor supporting our project: Johann Gevers – a futurist and friend – has made an initial contribution, and is increasing his holding on a monthly basis."

Is this our financial auditor throwing around some cash?

Making investments to hit the big time? Using OUR money?

From: http://www.adaptiveai.com/news/oldnews.htm

Friends of a2i2,

This time:

Meet Michael,
Overview of our technical status,
Another call for additional team members.
Plus, we now have another investor supporting our project: Johann Gevers - a futurist and friend - has made an initial contribution, and is increasing his holding on a monthly basis.

<snip>

Finally, we may be getting close to actually being able to use some remote, part-time help with specific aspects of our system (such as vision, sound, virtual world, etc.). Please subscribe to our tech list, if you are potentially interested in participating: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a2i2Tech

Please contact me for further details - peter@optimal.org

Towards Increased Intelligence,

Peter Voss

Anybody heard of this Peter Voss?

You folks need to read the whole page in its entirety and in content, for I'm only pulling out some nuggets: http://mail.kycnews.com/Forums.aspx?g=posts&t=37042

14 - Meanwhile, the "staff" were busily consuming
pizzas, drinking in the City Club, etc. Seemingly,
doing everything except work. (my observations, I was
there). "Staff" had yet to produce any workable
products. <Sounds like Butterfly Labs with Sonny at the helm.>

16 - Well, one day, Dino apparently started looking at
the code and the "staff" decided it was a piece of
junk and had to be rewritten using their new jim-dandy
techniques that they had been reading about on the web
and their magazines. <He's talking about what Sonny wrote.>

The "staff" considered me sort of a "cowboy,
renegade, whatever". <LMAO>

I even heard
predictions about how Mailvault was going to put
Hotmail out of business, etc. <Think Avalon.>

20 - Well, after about two of these fluff dinners, I
began asking questions (embarassing ones) of all the
"staff". Things like, does it have attachments?, are
there any filters?, are the servers really
distributed?.
21 - Well, this enflamed the "staff" to such a degree
that these dinners became shouting matches. JOG and
Code Crusader were there. This was before they took
over the "staff".
22 - It even became so bad at one point that I was
theoretically "fired" for voicing my opinion of
"staffs" competence. <Sonny is at the table.>

49 - Well, one day, I get a knock on my door and there
is Trusty, looking like a wet dog. Seems he could not
cover ATM withdrawals because Rex had all the money
tied up in various bank accounts... Surprise,
surprise... <Rex, is Sonny's real dad. Image the same scenario playing out at Butterfly Labs. Which one of the principals do you think has supreme control over the coffer(s)?>

Editorial comment.... You may not believe this,
but my take on the whole situation is .

a. - The whole LFCity thing was a "half baked",
idealist idea that never really had a chance to
succeed because it was plagued with "non achievers",
glad handers, pseudo-gurus, etc.

b. - I really do not think Rex was out to "scam"
anybody. <Just like some will say that Sonny was not really out to scam anybody, but...> It is just his nature to play the big time
banker, Hollywood producer, big shot, etc.
It just got out of hand and he could not cover his
debts.
Granted, he should not have been playing with ATM,
LFCity money the way he was, but he was warned many
times about it.
JOG, CC, Robert, JSE, etc. were all well aware of what
was going on, but they continued to ride the gravy
train. As soon as they stopped getting paid, they
screamed like stuck pigs. <Image Josh doing the same thing sometime in the future.> JOG and CC screamed
because founder positions stopped coming in. (JOG got
1/2 of every $6000 position).

c. - The MAIN reason LFC failed is simply because
there were too many years of non-performance and
non-delivery of products to make it "real". <akin to ASIC-based mining rigs by BFL> The gravy
train was parked at the dock, come on down, you do not
really have to do anything, just smile and slap me on
the back... etc... <The gravy train has left the station, but those still waiting, make sure you don't give up your queue in line in case she comes back around.>

<snip>

Steve

FUN FACT: Would it surprise you to learn that the majority of the above quoted was from a fellow Bitcoiner? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49706

Some of the links were 404 but I did get the jest of it. Basically just like pappy just like son.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Breaking news! BFL may, or may not deliver ASIC-based miners within 14 years:

SANTA BARBARA COUNTY MAN LINKED TO INTERNATIONAL LOTTERY SCAM THAT TOOK MORE THAN $25 MILLION
FROM VICTIMS SURRENDERS TO FACE CHARGES

Investigators estimate that victims lost approximately $20 million during the scheme, which ran for more than 15 years until it was shut down by federal agents in July 2006.

The other defendants named in the indictment are:

- Sonny Vleisides, 36, who lived in Costa Rica at the time of the scheme but was arrested in Florence, Italy on a provisional arrest warrant on April 19;

“Whether it's a pension fraud scheme or an illegal foreign lottery, when the U.S. Mail is used to commit fraud, Postal Inspectors are called upon to investigate and bring the perpetrators to justice. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service is committed to keeping our nation's mail system free from criminal misuse."

Fact: The US mail was used to ship product that was not FCC approved.

Fact: The US mail was used to ship ASIC products to a select few to perpetuate what's turning out to be a scam, coupled with there being no proof that pre-order moneys are not being used to develop vaporware or products to be used for themselves in mining bitcoins.

Ergo, the Postal Inspector should be notified immediately before too many people are victimized by a company run by a person who's been convicted of doing similar in the past.

This indictment, and the arrests of the perpetrators of this fraud, is indicative of our resolve to bring those who prey upon innocent investors, for their own financial gain, to justice.”

The 23 counts in the indictment carry a maximum statutory penalty of 460 years in federal prison and fines of up to $8.75 million.

Since Sonny got off lightly with only being charged with 1 count, sentenced to time served, and only had to pay a $100 fine <totally mother fuckin' amazing!>, he figures that he got away with it, thus again teaming up with his ol' cronies (doubt he's going solo) trying it again.

[Rassah]

I saw the mythical miners at the Conference today, along with a very tired and a bit frazzled looking Josh. They were mining, too. And I was told a date of when they hope to start shipping, which I obviously won't mention. For being a scam, they're really doing a good job leading people on.

[smoothie]

It would not surprise me if this is the last conference BFL actually shows up to.

It must sting that Avalon is included in the conference material and not BFL.

Nice shiny displays of ASICs doesn't mean they aren't solely trying to keep their operation going with more "sucker" preorder monies.

All I read on their display is "please give us money this is our dog and pony show".

[Qbert]

..... And I was told a date of when they hope to start shipping, which I obviously won't mention....

Were you told this date in confidence?  Why wouldn't you mention the date.
Not that the information would really mean anything anyways..

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It must sting that Avalon is included in the conference material and not BFL.

Seriously, smoothie? Coupled with receiving a unit from Avalon, TBF may have had serious revelations as to why they preferred to not include BFL within any of their official flyers/documents, making sure to maintain a safe distance just in case an eminent meltdown materializes in their eyes.

[MooC Tals]

It must sting that Avalon is included in the conference material and not BFL.

Seriously, smoothie? Coupled with receiving a unit from Avalon, TBF may have had serious revelations as to why they preferred to not include BFL within any of their official flyers/documents, making sure to maintain a safe distance just in case an eminent meltdown materializes in their eyes.

Well if BFL has gotten away with using pre-order money to RnD and built something that will work I think nothing can be done about that. What makes me concerned is how are they going to pay for the material to build the rest of the units.

Including the 1.5Ths units, with pre-order monies? Could they be using Jala orders and the doubling of prices to keep things going?

Would that be sufficient to build the back log? Josh looked tired at the conference. Did not look like the usual Josh I have seen in previous videos. I was not going to mention this but he does look thinner as well.

I'm just worried about the rest of those orders especially the rigs.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It must sting that Avalon is included in the conference material and not BFL.

Seriously, smoothie? Coupled with receiving a unit from Avalon, TBF may have had serious revelations as to why they preferred to not include BFL within any of their official flyers/documents, making sure to maintain a safe distance just in case an eminent meltdown materializes in their eyes.

Well if BFL has gotten away with using pre-order money to RnD and built something that will work I think nothing can be done about that. What makes me concerned is how are they going to pay for the material to build the rest of the units.

Including the 1.5Ths units, with pre-order monies? Could they be using Jala orders and the doubling of prices to keep things going?

Would that be sufficient to build the back log? Josh looked tired at the conference. Did not look like the usual Josh I have seen in previous videos. I was not going to mention this but he does look thinner as well.

I'm just worried about the rest of those orders especially the rigs.

You would be tired too if you had to lug this from KC to San Jose: