Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[LostDutchman]

If you look at the hashing power and subsequent difficulty increases at the time that BFL started shipping their ASICs, you'd see that their burn testing was insignificant in comparison to the difficulty increase from ASICs actually shipped by them and their competitors. I think they do less than 24 hours of burn testing, on a tiny fraction of the available mining hardware. So I wouldn't get too upset about it.
Also, Josh allows (or used to) for some people to keep their hardware with him and offered them the service of doing the mining for them, instead of shipping the hardware and doing the setup and mining themselves.  I suspect he used his own pool for that purpose. Though I don't really get what the issue is with Josh owning and selling BFL a mining pool.

The term "conflict of interest" mean anything to you?

I don't see the conflict of interest is starting a pool, and selling it to a company you end up working for, or using it as a service for those who don't want to mine in their own homes. Can you elaborate on what the conflict is please?

My friend if you cannot see the conflict of interest on its face, then I cannot help you.

I'm sure you can help me. I see examples of a company buying some smaller company's innovation and hiring the people who invented it all the time. For example, Facebook recently acquired Occulus, and the people who invented Occulus are now working for Facebook. Is that considered a conflict of interest on their part?

Or was the conflict of interest related to something else in BFL's case?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............

You haven't come to the conclusion that the sale was just a small part of the long-term scam?

[Bicknellski]

Meanwhile BFL still holds millions of dollars of "invetomers" money and still they have not shipped the Monarch.

In terms of getting f-overed yet again anyone purchasing BFL has just been bent over again. It is truly amazing that BFL continues to promote product that is so behind the curve on every level and they, after 15 months of work, can't produce a single board with their new chips. It is clear that BFL is a failure at delivering product in a reasonable time frame in a reasonable quantity for the demand. Now the demand for BFL is gone it is clear the BFL will also be gone. That is best news possible for Bitcoin.

Let us put this in perspective and what is the standard practice for shipping units today. Not 1 year ago but today.

What is shipping today. You pay it ships. Not you pay and wait 6 months or more for a refund.

1.0 Th      BFL Imperial Monarch. Not shipping. Not even built or tested to hash. $ $2,939.00 delivery, psu not included, casing not included. Minimum 6 month wait.

1.0 Th      Antminer S2 Bitmain shipping 25th May. $1650 USD delivery included.

1.4 Th      Spondoolies SP10 shipping today. $3200 delivery included.

1.0 Th      A1 28nm Clones shipping today. 2650$ delivery included. Price drops daily.

0.95 Th    BitTech Bitmine A1 Miner shipping today $1750. Bitmine A1 Miner including shipping.

1.0 Th      Dragon 1T shipping today. $2000 delivered today.

Let me borrow that cream for any BFL customers who are still waiting on the 28nm vaporware product and can't get an immediate refund, against FTC rules, that is 2x more expensive, untested and likely to be nearly impossible to cool to get that 1 Th compared to the competition shipping today with proven technology that out strips anything that BFL imagined 15 months ago. We see the pattern. Design Idea > Sales > Design > Fabricate > Test > Refabricate > Ship in 15 months.

It is truly amazing that it takes longer for BFL to refund customers than it does to get a 1 TH+ miner from any of these people listed.



Regarding Eclipse Mining Pool.

1. BFL stated they would mine only on the test net.
2. They bought EMP without letting anyone know.
3. They tested their miners at EMP on the real network.
4. They lied about the testing and it only came out in court they were infact mining on equipment.
5. They counter this and defend BFL in court documents as saying the equipment was not OWNED by customers until the burn in testing was complete.

Weasles.

Let us see REALLY how much burn in testing was done. I don't believe your assessment Rassah as you have not documentation to back up your claims it was a minimal amount of testing. Let us let the court ordered discovery be the bench mark on this. What is clear is that BFL covered up they were mining on machines, they lied about using the test net and mined directly to profit BFL. That alone should give anyone pause about how TRUTHFUL or ETHICAL these people are. If they were hiding that fact could there be more to uncover? I suspect given they hid that at all there is more likely than not to see from the discovery.

[Todamont]

I would like to contact the parole officer of Chris Vleisides, and file a report for a parole violation. Can anyone offer advice on this?

[LostDutchman]

I would like to contact the parole officer of Chris Vleisides, and file a report for a parole violation. Can anyone offer advice on this?

Well, based on this:

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/PressRoom/nr110114.htm

I'd be contacting the FBI or the Postal Inspectors as they are the federal cops and if they don't handle the matter, they will, I'm certain, be kind enough to direct you the right person.

Maybe you get the guy locked up in a "Federal pound me in the ass prison".

But who am I to say what should be done?

[Todamont]

>> But who am I to say what should be done?

Well I'm victim to a crime that he commited while he was on parole, so I feel like I am just the right person to say what should be done.

[LostDutchman]

>> But who am I to say what should be done?

Well I'm victim to a crime that he commited while he was on parole, so I feel like I am just the right person to say what should be done.

Right on brother!

[Rassah]

Regarding Eclipse Mining Pool.

1. BFL stated they would mine only on the test net.
2. They bought EMP without letting anyone know.
3. They tested their miners at EMP on the real network.
4. They lied about the testing and it only came out in court they were infact mining on equipment.
5. They counter this and defend BFL in court documents as saying the equipment was not OWNED by customers until the burn in testing was complete.

Weasles.

That's what I was looking for, thanks.

[LostDutchman]

>> But who am I to say what should be done?

Well I'm victim to a crime that he commited while he was on parole, so I feel like I am just the right person to say what should be done.

Well then get off your ass and get busy!

You have enough info to take to the DA, the Federal Parobation people and abouat nine other agences which can put this guy in a federal pound your ass prison.

[Rassah]

>> But who am I to say what should be done?

Well I'm victim to a crime that he commited while he was on parole, so I feel like I am just the right person to say what should be done.

Well then get off your ass and get busy!

You have enough info to take to the DA, the Federal Parobation people and abouat nine other agences which can put this guy in a federal pound your ass prison.

I believe you owe us $0.02?

[LostDutchman]

>> But who am I to say what should be done?

Well I'm victim to a crime that he commited while he was on parole, so I feel like I am just the right person to say what should be done.

Well then get off your ass and get busy!

You have enough info to take to the DA, the Federal Parobation people and abouat nine other agences which can put this guy in a federal pound your ass prison.

I believe you owe us $0.02?

Dude, I have done so much work on the issue of BFL fraud (And for most of which I have been pilloried as some kind of whiner!) that if BTC is owed, it is owed to me but I do not give a shit.

I would not however take one thin dime or even a single Satoshi for my contribution to the effort to bring down BFL.*

* I got some other shit that could be done but it would cost money and people would have to pony up.

I am very, very good at some of the things that I can do but those things cost money.

Scrapebox.

XRumer.

LostDutchman is the name and money is the game.

Would any of you care to play?

What are YOU willing to do to bring down BFL?

I am hungry like a wolf for the blood of BFL.

[colinistheman]

The owner of Butterfly Labs (Sonny V) had a very interesting and revealing court case in January.

This is the TL/DR version but it has a lot of information regarding Monarchs, Pre-orders, and mis-used of company funds:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682150.msg7737614#msg7737614

[ronskii]

The owner of Butterfly Labs (Sonny V) had a very interesting and revealing court case in January.

This is the TL/DR version but it has a lot of information regarding Monarchs, Pre-orders, and mis-used of company funds:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682150.msg7737614#msg7737614

Thanks for the link! Good read. Makes me feel angry inside. How did they plan to get away with that?

[Viceroy]

To be fair we have been warning against doing business with this company for more than two years.  You did not do your homework.  Still, sorry for your trouble.  More importantly, thank you for your service.

[LostDutchman]

Guys, butterfly labs BFL is nothing but a rotten stinking scam. I ordered a card in Nov of 2013 and still have not gotten out of the mess. While it took months of me chasing them down, they finally broke down and said they would refund me for the 2 cards in 30-45 days. I sent them the bank information, they kept playing games like "Losing it" and "please send again". So when I received the wire it was for only 1 card!!! I asked, where the hell is the refund for the 2nd card. Then they said I had to wait 2 months for the wire for that card. In addition the guys BFL always emailed me, so quick to get me in the " buy another customer's preorder" scam so I wouldn't be eligible. THANK GOD I DIDNT FALL FOR IT!

There is also a 2nd scam, and that is "send us 50% for a 2nd card. The problem is when you try to get refunded for that 2nd card, they will not refund the money.

BTW, I am a US Veteran who works very hard at my job. I walk down the street with my head held high in dignity. BFL is a shameful company who does not keep their word. Please spead the word on the forums that they do not keep their word, that they are dishonest, and anyone working there should leave. I am not afraid to post the truth, because there are many real victims of BFL who lost hard earned money.  That is my story...

There are new chapters to be written.

WeDemandJusticeFromBFL.com

Coming soon to an interweb near you.

By the way, thank you for your service and keep an eye on the "BFL Fucks Us Over Again" thread.

[mrpark]

BFL is now wiring me money for the 2nd card. They banned me for life on the BFL board. A nice way to treat your paying customers.

[MooC Tals]

http://youtu.be/Yz1vrKx2J-U

The ball has begun to travel. BFL's days are numbered. Please do enjoy the sound bite.

[elux]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/240687735/FTC-Lawsuit-Butterfly-Labs

ABOUT DAMN TIME! 

[MooC Tals]

This can go on for years and that kind of money can buy you the best lawyers or in other words a lot of time.

However this effectively cuts the pre-sales con out of the equation. Without their pre-sales income the apparatus can no longer continue.

Go and check out their web site.

[Viceroy]

Bitcoin mining hardware firm Butterfly Labs shuttered by FTC
http://www.zdnet.com/bitcoin-mining-hardware-firm-butterfly-labs-shuttered-by-ftc-7000033997/