Nefario

[keystroke]

However, if Nefario is being compelled to do these things under threat of force (govt), should he still be given the scammer tag? Normally the burden of proof would be on him to prove he's under duress, but what if he's not allowed to, again under threat of force? That was one of my first concerns with the situation with Nefario/Goat, and it still is now.

He was behaving illegally and when he decided to stop being illegal, shit came to a halt.

He's not a scammer because, AFTER he took the money and created a mini Gordian knot of asset exchanges, he decided to go legit, never letting people know he was not legit for months.

So the statute of limitations on being a scammer is...a day, because bitcoin?

The scammer tag is there to remind people not to to business with someone because they are a risk due to factors under their control and refuse to make reparation.  It's not a "punishment" as much as an ostracization.

Maybe we need a new tag -- tried to run a legit-business which couldn't be legit given the regulatory environment and thus exposed all users to exchange-going-down-risk. Someone should leak GLBSE code and then set it up on a TOR hidden service so then we can actually get scammed by a real scammer! What a world.

[k3t3r]

I understand people worries about scams due to bitcoins history. But nothing about glbse situation would add up to it being a scam. there would not be enough bitcoins held to make it worth the while to cut and run, and the perpetual income from trade and listing fees would be more worthwhile to keep the exchange functioning.

[Justin00]

scammer tag is a joke anyways.
The fact people can have it removed like a week (actually a day or 2 is more accurate) later is retarded.

Alice scams Bob. Alice gets scammer tag. Bob finds Alice personal info and Alice pays back. 30 mins later scammer tag is removed.
Yes Alice is changed individual... never to scam again.  

[matthewh3]

I for one have a lot of sympathy toward Nefario, there have been missteps but what he (and other shareholders) were trying to accomplish was out of this world.

And he deserves some support from the community.

+1 running the GLBSE was probably where Nafario made his living.  The GLBSE was his brainchild and he was very passionate about it.  For him to stop trading on the GLBSE must have been a very big and important decision to make.  He wouldn't shut it down for the fun of it and is definitely not trying to steal coins or scam.  So he definitely does not deserve the scammer tag.  Also Theymous its in your interest to make sure Nafario's legal fees get paid over GLBSE matters rather than slandering him and nominating him for a scammer tag from the community.

I for one have a lot of sympathy toward Nefario, there have been missteps but what he (and other shareholders) were trying to accomplish was out of this world.

And he deserves some support from the community.

I do not think so, he deserves to be doxed and haunted for the rest of the time he uses the internet by the online mob.

You are just a troll, probably an adolescent and insecure 

[MPOE-PR]

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

What nonsense. I hold a very small percentage of user funds. 600-800 BTC. He can't even start paying back users without that? And I already said I'd send that part to him. He hasn't given me an address yet.

Quoted for the immense quantity of comedic gold embodied. Is that you, theygoat?!

[jasinlee]

I for one have a lot of sympathy toward Nefario, there have been missteps but what he (and other shareholders) were trying to accomplish was out of this world.

And he deserves some support from the community.

+1 running the GLBSE was probably where Nafario made his living.  The GLBSE was his brainchild and he was very passionate about it.  For him to stop trading on the GLBSE must have been a very big and important decision to make.  He wouldn't shut it down for the fun of it and is definitely not trying to steal coins or scam.  So he definitely does not deserve the scammer tag.  Also Theymous its in your interest to make sure Nafario's legal fees get paid over GLBSE matters rather than slandering him and nominating him for a scammer tag from the community.

I for one have a lot of sympathy toward Nefario, there have been missteps but what he (and other shareholders) were trying to accomplish was out of this world.

And he deserves some support from the community.

I do not think so, he deserves to be doxed and haunted for the rest of the time he uses the internet by the online mob.

You are just a troll, probably an adolescent and insecure 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Although my kids may disagree with your opinion of me. Anyway, I have seen people doxed on here for stealing 20btc. Anyone here lose more than that to nefarios disregard for his own rules, laws, or ethics? The scammer tag in this case would ensure that none of these people would ever choose to do business with someone who so obviously has no regard for their own customers or the standards the pretend to uphold.

[occulta]

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

[unclescrooge]

It will more than time for service providers to either go fully legal or fully alegal (tor hidden service anyone). And that may include this forum.

We all knew Bitcoin was a threat to the power that be, and seems like the time has come for us to face this reality.

I would fully support tor hidden services, but they pose a big trust issue that I don't know how to solve :/

[matthewh3]

I've just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour and even tho someone stated that Nafario had used users money to pay recent GLBSE legal fees is untrue.  He hasn't even paid his solicitor a penny yet. 

[jasinlee]

Did you ask him if we can have the fees back we paid for an IPO he now will not provide since he has turned tail and run away?

[S3052]

I've just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour and even tho someone stated that Nafario had used users money to pay recent GLBSE legal fees is untrue.  He hasn't even paid his solicitor a penny yet. 

+1
Nefario in my p.o.v has a great character and does everything to get this solved in the best way. I don't think this is a guy that would ever run with someone else's money.

[matthewh3]

Did you ask him if we can have the fees back we paid for an IPO he now will not provide since he has turned tail and run away?

If the IPO took place right before the shut-down I would imagine they would be paid back.  You best contacting - support@glbse.com

[Shadow383]

I've just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour and even tho someone stated that Nafario had used users money to pay recent GLBSE legal fees is untrue.  He hasn't even paid his solicitor a penny yet. 

Any chance of a quick run-down of the chat? I think we're all curious to find out what's going on here...

[SebastianJu]

If i would be nefario and would held responsible when glbse lives on i would crash it too. I mean such market isnt worth enough for a person to go to jail. I think no one would decide another way.

But taking user money isnt ok. (Ok, he didnt yet but plans to do so isnt it?) Or maybe is the lawyer not against him in person but against the company? If so it would be correct to defend the company with companies money. But is the money of the users the money of the company? Is the money a investment into the company? I doubt that. So then it would be wrong anyway.

Of course... with the data from glbse the shareholders can get their shares and a new platform could be created. So i think if all is correct that had been said, nefario cant act another way to protect himself. I mean i want to see the person that would hold glbse alive when in exchange you have to go to jail or similar.

@Theymos Do you know someone able to access the database of glbse so that you can make a backup just in case? I dont want to hear at one time that all data is lost or something. Or that i have to join a new platform to get my shares and joining the new platform wouldnt be good for me.
Can you reveal the usernames of the glbse-shareholders? Are they reputated forummembers? Maybe they should say some words too when they know more.

Why are share holders of this operation getting off free here? Are they not also scammers for participating as owners of this shady operation? Just because they lost a few bucks does not mean they are not also responsible for customer's losses?

Scammer tags all around in my mind.

Why should it be a scam? Theymos said there are only 600BTC in glbse in form of btc. Thats not much earning to create a scam this big dont you think?

And what customers losses should they give back? You speak from the money used for lawyer only? Its not spent yet it seems.

There is something bether out there created by vircurex. Its called cryptostocks.com. You can deal not only with BTC securities but allso LTC and DVC.
Im realy glad that im positioned on https://cryptostocks.com
The identity check is optional there.

Again a .com...

As for him stealing funds to pay for his lawyer; getting legal advice certainly sounds like a legitimate business expense to me, one you should have invested in a LONG time ago. Its completely reasonable Nefario would pay that with company funds rather than his own personal funds.

You assume its not him sued but the company. And you assume the customers money is invested in glbse. But it isnt in my opinion. I never got a dividend from glbse itself so i didnt invest in glbse. I moved my money there to buy shares but this doesnt mean its the money of glbse now. So nefario is using money he shouldnt. Am i right?

I refuse to limit myself to documents such as SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934.
Haven't read but I think it's safe to say ~30% of what's written in there is ridiculous and make no sense when applied to a world of bitcoins and global online transactions.

As if this would help. Governments all over the world make acts to restrict internet by using rules from last century. In the name of copyright, terrorism, childporn they try to use ways that worked in the old days but not now anymore. They will use old rules when they can because the think old.

But I cant remember the assets I hold, or even my username it was all autosaved, we need access even if all transactions are locked out in order to get the information.

Does anyone have a list of the issuers?

You should find your username in the browser you stored it in and you should have emails from glbse. So you know the email you used.

You should probably all be aware that Nefario is already planning on creating a legal, regulated Bitcoin stock exchange service (of some sort) once this blows over.

If so he should start to communicate. Otherwise his new platform wont have the trust he need to get investors.

[jasinlee]

Did you ask him if we can have the fees back we paid for an IPO he now will not provide since he has turned tail and run away?

If the IPO took place right before the shut-down I would imagine they would be paid back.  You best contacting - support@glbse.com

Never even got that far, they never answered any emails.

[bigasic]

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish.  He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative.  Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.  

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

lol.

Robbing banks is illegal in the first place. Bitcoin is unregulated and there are no laws in existence to deal with it and glbse never took in fiat. Its  a massive grey area and you cant retroactively change laws and make them apply in the past. Its not clear the same laws apply to bitcoin at all.

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

[Bitinvestor]

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

Please read this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46486

[matthewh3]

I've just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour and even tho someone stated that Nafario had used users money to pay recent GLBSE legal fees is untrue.  He hasn't even paid his solicitor a penny yet. 

Any chance of a quick run-down of the chat? I think we're all curious to find out what's going on here...

Yeah he said ******* has been trying to take control of the GLBSE since before the shutdown (I forget how long for he said maybe a week or two before).  He also said GLBSE will never be returning.  He did say he's working on a way for assets to be able to issue dividends very soon but not for shares to be traded.  He talked about a GLBSE alternative for companies that pay full taxes and follow all regulations.  He also said he would help me move my asset RSM to Cryptostocks if I wanted.  Also that he has a very generous offer of an interested party in buying the source-code.  Plus I heard LTC-Global is selling there source-code.  So lots of alternatives popping up soon.

[senor_coconut]

Hi,

I'm posting out of the sandbox for the first time but don't take straight for a pimple-ridden freakazoid wearing a "BTC" t-shirt.

I've been in contact with support@glbse.com before and they DID answer emails and solved user issues.

I've also already sent an email requesting my ~30 BTC back... hope is the last one to go! but, for what its worth, i got the autoreply so the email was "received" and also could check that the ticket desk is working (zendesk).

...well... waiting for the next relevant post, it's like a soap...

I had a good part of it in puremining, i'll try to have the issuer comment, maybe they know something more...

[gweedo]

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish.  He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative.  Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.  

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

lol.

Robbing banks is illegal in the first place. Bitcoin is unregulated and there are no laws in existence to deal with it and glbse never took in fiat. Its  a massive grey area and you cant retroactively change laws and make them apply in the past. Its not clear the same laws apply to bitcoin at all.

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

S.E.C deals with securities in USD so this has nothing to do with the SEC. Since GLBSE is in UK and doesn't deal with fiat currency, but they decided they would pay taxes. So technically they made themselves illegal but doing that, plus nefario was talking about how he wants to go legit and that would require lawyers and stuff like that. They basically shot themselves in the foot.