Bitcoin Forum
July 26, 2021, 06:02:48 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.21.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1]  (Read 155139 times)
michaelmclees
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 633
Merit: 500


View Profile
December 15, 2012, 07:49:44 PM
 #381

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1627322568
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1627322568

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1627322568
Reply with quote  #2

1627322568
Report to moderator
1627322568
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1627322568

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1627322568
Reply with quote  #2

1627322568
Report to moderator
punin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 500


View Profile WWW
December 15, 2012, 08:25:16 PM
 #382

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

Head of Product Development
Bitfury Group
www.bitfury.com
bce
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 250



View Profile
December 15, 2012, 08:53:50 PM
 #383

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. 
punin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 500


View Profile WWW
December 15, 2012, 09:03:26 PM
 #384

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. 
It was a non-working dummy.

Head of Product Development
Bitfury Group
www.bitfury.com
bce
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 250



View Profile
December 15, 2012, 09:24:10 PM
 #385

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted.  
It was a non-working dummy.

You're a non-working dummy!  Cheesy  (in the current spirit of BFL interactions)
Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1918
Merit: 1562


Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending


View Profile WWW
December 15, 2012, 10:01:15 PM
 #386

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted.  
It was a non-working dummy.

You're a non-working dummy!  Cheesy  (in the current spirit of BFL interactions)

In the spirit of Phinnaeus Gage, I found the hat:

Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
December 15, 2012, 10:21:40 PM
 #387

In the BFL tradition...  Can you please prove you have a hat?  I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats.

I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted.  
It was a non-working dummy.

You're a non-working dummy!  Cheesy  (in the current spirit of BFL interactions)

In the spirit of Phinnaeus Gage, I found the hat:



Here's my prototype,use it free of charge,I want all to prosper with my technology  Cool


"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
mrb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1019


View Profile WWW
December 15, 2012, 11:37:02 PM
 #388

(PS: the number of chips per Avalon is mostly irrevelant to these price estimations. I estimate you will have about 500mm² of die area per Avalon device. Whether it is 10 x 50mm² chips or 20 x 25 mm² chips is irrelevant to my numbers. 500mm² of wafer space will cost $40 regardless.)

Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction:
- each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm)
- BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different)
- an Avalon wafer will therefore provide 4055*.75 = 3040 Ghash/s of mining power
- an Avalon wafer will go into the production of about 50 Avalon devices (~60 Ghash/s each)
- the raw cost of a wafer is $4,xxx per the partially-obscured price in the TSMC document published by the team, let's say $4500, that means $90 of wafer space per Avalon device (up from my prediction of $40)
Mikej0h
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 117
Merit: 100

Life is short, play long


View Profile
December 16, 2012, 12:08:20 AM
 #389

Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction:
- each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm)
- BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different)
<cut>

You do realize that based on your calculation for a single Avalon device, which is advertised as 66Gh/sec, they would need 88 chips.
That sounds very unlikely to me...
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
December 16, 2012, 12:38:21 AM
 #390

It's not unlikely at all... depending on power factors, we estimate between 64 and 128 chips per device.  88 is an odd number (not impossible of course), but given the propensity for the Avalon team to like nice round figures, I suspect a multiple of 8.  My thoughts are they are going to have to go with more than 64 chips to overcome the particular issues they haven't run into quite yet.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
mrb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1512
Merit: 1019


View Profile WWW
December 16, 2012, 12:44:26 AM
 #391

Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction:
- each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm)
- BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different)
<cut>

You do realize that based on your calculation for a single Avalon device, which is advertised as 66Gh/sec, they would need 88 chips.

Yes. Strange, but yes.
nathanrees19
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 12:50:16 AM
 #392

I suppose that will mean they will miss their original goal of 15-30 chips per unit, unless BFL's chips are smaller than they say, or the Avalon chips can be clocked much more aggressively, or Avalon has a much better design.
2112
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128
Merit: 1038



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 01:59:46 AM
 #393

they would need 88 chips. That sounds very unlikely to me...
For a Chinese designers 88 would be a doubly prosperous number or joy number. Sounds likely to me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture#Eight

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
December 16, 2012, 06:03:41 AM
 #394

they would need 88 chips. That sounds very unlikely to me...
For a Chinese designers 88 would be a doubly prosperous number or joy number. Sounds likely to me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture#Eight


Wow good point!  That would be a pretty cool thing to design into/around.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
ab8989
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 209
Merit: 101


FUTURE OF CRYPTO IS HERE!


View Profile WWW
December 16, 2012, 07:19:43 AM
 #395

I am sort of remembering the 7.5*7.5mm number for BFL was the size of the package and not the die size. I am not sure the die size was never revealed but it must be much smaller to fit into the package.
nathanrees19
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 07:39:39 AM
 #396

I am sort of remembering the 7.5*7.5mm number for BFL was the size of the package and not the die size. I am not sure the die size was never revealed but it must be much smaller to fit into the package.

As I recall, the BFL package size was 11mm*11mm.

How would one organise 88 chips? Would it be a good idea to put them all on one PCB, or stack PCBs with 22 or 44 chips?
cedivad
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
 #397

Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
irritant
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 469
Merit: 250


Sodium hypochlorite, acetone, ethanol


View Profile
December 16, 2012, 08:59:24 AM
 #398

Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.

i had to read it two/three times  Cheesy
Unacceptable
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 09:35:56 AM
 #399

Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.

i had to read it two/three times  Cheesy

Thats nothing,Frizzzzzzzzzz has to read most everything 5-6 times  Cheesy

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
bce
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 250



View Profile
December 16, 2012, 10:06:48 AM
 #400

Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.

i had to read it two/three times  Cheesy

Thats nothing,Frizzzzzzzzzz has to read most everything 5-6 times  Cheesy

That's nothing.  I usually read things even more times - lots of times.  It's pretty easy to do, really.  Smiley   <---- positive vibes
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!