|
michaelmclees
|
 |
December 15, 2012, 07:49:44 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
punin
|
|
December 15, 2012, 08:25:16 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. |
|
|
|
|
bce
|
|
December 15, 2012, 08:53:50 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. |
|
|
|
|
|
punin
|
|
December 15, 2012, 09:03:26 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. It was a non-working dummy. |
|
|
|
|
bce
|
|
December 15, 2012, 09:24:10 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. It was a non-working dummy. You're a non-working dummy!  (in the current spirit of BFL interactions) |
|
|
|
|
Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
|
|
December 15, 2012, 10:01:15 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. It was a non-working dummy. You're a non-working dummy! (in the current spirit of BFL interactions) In the spirit of Phinnaeus Gage, I found the hat:  |
|
|
|
|
Unacceptable
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
|
|
December 15, 2012, 10:21:40 PM |
|
In the BFL tradition... Can you please prove you have a hat? I would like to see pictures of your working prototype hat if you do not yet have the final hat design.
That would give out too much valuable information to other people claiming to have hats. I remember seeing a picture of a tin-foil hat someplace, but I think it was deleted. It was a non-working dummy. You're a non-working dummy! (in the current spirit of BFL interactions) In the spirit of Phinnaeus Gage, I found the hat: Here's my prototype,use it free of charge,I want all to prosper with my technology   |
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole." -Raylan Givens Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan  |
|
|
mrb
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
|
|
December 15, 2012, 11:37:02 PM |
|
(PS: the number of chips per Avalon is mostly irrevelant to these price estimations. I estimate you will have about 500mm² of die area per Avalon device. Whether it is 10 x 50mm² chips or 20 x 25 mm² chips is irrelevant to my numbers. 500mm² of wafer space will cost $40 regardless.)
Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction: - each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm) - BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different) - an Avalon wafer will therefore provide 4055*.75 = 3040 Ghash/s of mining power - an Avalon wafer will go into the production of about 50 Avalon devices (~60 Ghash/s each) - the raw cost of a wafer is $4,xxx per the partially-obscured price in the TSMC document published by the team, let's say $4500, that means $90 of wafer space per Avalon device (up from my prediction of $40) |
|
|
|
|
Mikej0h
Member
Offline
Activity: 117
Merit: 100
Life is short, play long
|
|
December 16, 2012, 12:08:20 AM |
|
Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction:
- each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm)
- BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different)
<cut>
You do realize that based on your calculation for a single Avalon device, which is advertised as 66Gh/sec, they would need 88 chips. That sounds very unlikely to me... |
|
|
|
|
Inaba
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 16, 2012, 12:38:21 AM |
|
It's not unlikely at all... depending on power factors, we estimate between 64 and 128 chips per device. 88 is an odd number (not impossible of course), but given the propensity for the Avalon team to like nice round figures, I suspect a multiple of 8. My thoughts are they are going to have to go with more than 64 chips to overcome the particular issues they haven't run into quite yet.
|
If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
|
|
|
mrb
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
|
|
December 16, 2012, 12:44:26 AM |
|
Now that we know there will be 4055 chips per wafer, and that the die area is 16mm², I can refine my math and prediction:
- each Avalon chip will have 1/10th the number of transistors of the BFL chips (16mm² at 110nm vs. 56.25mm² at 65nm)
- BFL chips are 7.5Ghash/s, therefore Avalon chips should do 0.75Ghash/s (approximately, since the clock will be somewhat different)
<cut>
You do realize that based on your calculation for a single Avalon device, which is advertised as 66Gh/sec, they would need 88 chips. Yes. Strange, but yes. |
|
|
|
|
|
nathanrees19
|
|
December 16, 2012, 12:50:16 AM |
|
I suppose that will mean they will miss their original goal of 15-30 chips per unit, unless BFL's chips are smaller than they say, or the Avalon chips can be clocked much more aggressively, or Avalon has a much better design.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Inaba
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 16, 2012, 06:03:41 AM |
|
Wow good point! That would be a pretty cool thing to design into/around. |
If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
|
|
|
ab8989
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 209
Merit: 101
FUTURE OF CRYPTO IS HERE!
|
|
December 16, 2012, 07:19:43 AM |
|
I am sort of remembering the 7.5*7.5mm number for BFL was the size of the package and not the die size. I am not sure the die size was never revealed but it must be much smaller to fit into the package.
|
|
|
|
|
|
nathanrees19
|
|
December 16, 2012, 07:39:39 AM |
|
I am sort of remembering the 7.5*7.5mm number for BFL was the size of the package and not the die size. I am not sure the die size was never revealed but it must be much smaller to fit into the package.
As I recall, the BFL package size was 11mm*11mm. How would one organise 88 chips? Would it be a good idea to put them all on one PCB, or stack PCBs with 22 or 44 chips? |
|
|
|
|
cedivad
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
|
|
December 16, 2012, 08:06:01 AM |
|
Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.
|
My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive: Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers |
|
|
irritant
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 473
Merit: 250
Sodium hypochlorite, acetone, ethanol
|
|
December 16, 2012, 08:59:24 AM |
|
Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.
i had to read it two/three times |
|
|
|
|
Unacceptable
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
|
|
December 16, 2012, 09:35:56 AM |
|
Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.
i had to read it two/three times Thats nothing,Frizzzzzzzzzz has to read most everything 5-6 times |
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole." -Raylan Givens Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan |
|
|
|
bce
|
|
December 16, 2012, 10:06:48 AM |
|
Inaba, when I readed your post I couldn't belive you where not trolling.
I'm really happy of it.
i had to read it two/three times Thats nothing,Frizzzzzzzzzz has to read most everything 5-6 times That's nothing. I usually read things even more times - lots of times. It's pretty easy to do, really. <---- positive vibes |
|
|
|
|
|
