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Author Topic: [ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network  (Read 1200442 times)
jwinterm
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September 13, 2019, 08:58:32 AM
 #10761

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In case of a hard fork voting, the decred code does not allow the existence of 2 blockchains. The "defeated" blockchain "dies".
Hard fork happens automatically and takes everyone in the same direction.
It is impossible for a group to continue on the old blockchain and keep it alive.
It's impossible to happen at Decred what happened to ETH and BTC.
The devs took great care in developing this.
It is one of the main differentials of decred.

This is misleading, imo. If there's a contentious hardfork, the losing party can modify the codebase to allow their chain to continue. They're going to hardfork anyway. There's no magic protection against people making a one off or permanent change to the rules of the system to allow their form to live.

That's my point. There's nothing that can stop a determined minority from splitting away from the main chain. But with Decred, it might be the true community majority made up of small HODLERS who delegate their votes to pools.

With Decred it could be the devs and placeholder capital forcing through any change they want, and the more Decred poor 99.999% forking off as well.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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gembitz
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September 13, 2019, 03:55:50 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2019, 05:55:26 PM by mprep
 #10762

No, the hardfork voting system is fully automatic and without human interference.
The devs are working to all be done automatically in Decred soon  Shocked


aka "SKYNET" *the very moment it's done automatically the real serious hacking begins!!weeeeeeee
===> #EXPECT_BITCOINERZZZ #OCCUPY_CRYPTO




...
In case of a hard fork voting, the decred code does not allow the existence of 2 blockchains. The "defeated" blockchain "dies".
Hard fork happens automatically and takes everyone in the same direction.
It is impossible for a group to continue on the old blockchain and keep it alive.
It's impossible to happen at Decred what happened to ETH and BTC.
The devs took great care in developing this.
It is one of the main differentials of decred.

This is misleading, imo. If there's a contentious hardfork, the losing party can modify the codebase to allow their chain to continue. They're going to hardfork anyway. There's no magic protection against people making a one off or permanent change to the rules of the system to allow their form to live.

That's my point. There's nothing that can stop a determined minority from splitting away from the main chain. But with Decred, it might be the true community majority made up of small HODLERS who delegate their votes to pools.

With Decred it could be the devs and placeholder capital forcing through any change they want, and the more Decred poor 99.999% forking off as well.

the premine is held tightly by a handful of dev-insiders and bittrex exchange cartel...there is no community :-D pfft

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF #XTZ ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
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September 13, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
 #10763

I don't know about bittrex, but with the premine compounded by staking and from what I understand placeholder made a very large investment (now compounded by staking), I'd guess they would be close to being able to push votes through. I'm not saying the system is broken, I'm just not sure this is the best way to do governance on chain (if there is a best way).
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September 13, 2019, 06:13:37 PM
 #10764

I don't know about bittrex, but with the premine compounded by staking and from what I understand placeholder made a very large investment (now compounded by staking), I'd guess they would be close to being able to push votes through. I'm not saying the system is broken, I'm just not sure this is the best way to do governance on chain (if there is a best way).

That's not how it works...  you can't compound by staking with Decred because only 30% goes to POS,  (60% goes to POW) So everyone who had tickets since launch,  today has less tickets.  Unless they are continuously investing new money (either buying more Decred on the market,  or running a sizeable mining operation).  Personally,  I'm down to ~13% of my initial stake.

It is by design and big investors face the same issue.
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September 13, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
 #10765

I don't know about bittrex, but with the premine compounded by staking and from what I understand placeholder made a very large investment (now compounded by staking), I'd guess they would be close to being able to push votes through. I'm not saying the system is broken, I'm just not sure this is the best way to do governance on chain (if there is a best way).

That's not how it works...  you can't compound by staking with Decred because only 30% goes to POS,  (60% goes to POW) So everyone who had tickets since launch,  today has less tickets.  Unless they are continuously investing new money (either buying more Decred on the market,  or running a sizeable mining operation).  Personally,  I'm down to ~13% of my initial stake.

It is by design and big investors face the same issue.


I thought the devs started staking from day one, and there wasn't any stake pool software available for quite some time, and they were staking the premine, so they basically collected all staking rewards for the first six or twelve months. I didn't mean literally compound, just that the premine was 10% and they staked it, partially during a time when very few others and no one with as large a bag was, resulting in it now being significantly more than 10% of the total supply. They don't show that in the pie chart breakdown, but I think the premine effectively extends into a not insignificant portion of the staking rewards pie slice.
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September 13, 2019, 06:49:12 PM
 #10766

LOL the fudders decided to make a coordinated attack.
As has been said a thousand times before, but gembitz e jwinterm ignore, the premine was distributed via airdrop to the community and the other half was not for "the developers" but for the "development fund", which is also used to pay marketing, designers, events, etc.

About the vote, you must also have more than 60% of your total votes for your proposal to be validated.
You may have the most votes "yes", but if many of the other people clicked "no" on your proposal, you will need more votes to reach 60% of the total (yes+no).
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September 13, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2019, 08:32:47 PM by mprep
 #10767

...
In case of a hard fork voting, the decred code does not allow the existence of 2 blockchains. The "defeated" blockchain "dies".
Hard fork happens automatically and takes everyone in the same direction.
It is impossible for a group to continue on the old blockchain and keep it alive.
It's impossible to happen at Decred what happened to ETH and BTC.
The devs took great care in developing this.
It is one of the main differentials of decred.

This is misleading, imo. If there's a contentious hardfork, the losing party can modify the codebase to allow their chain to continue. They're going to hardfork anyway. There's no magic protection against people making a one off or permanent change to the rules of the system to allow their form to live.

That's my point. There's nothing that can stop a determined minority from splitting away from the main chain. But with Decred, it might be the true community majority made up of small HODLERS who delegate their votes to pools.

With Decred it could be the devs and placeholder capital forcing through any change they want, and the more Decred poor 99.999% forking off as well.

the preposterous PREMINE is held tightly by a handful of dev-insiders and bittrex exchange cartel...there is no community :-D pfft



LOL the fudders decided to make a coordinated attack.
As has been said a thousand times before, but gembitz e jwinterm ignore, the premine was distributed via airdrop to the community and the other half was not for "the developers" but for the "development fund", which is also used to pay marketing, designers, events, etc.

About the vote, you must also have more than 60% of your total votes for your proposal to be validated.
You may have the most votes "yes", but if many of the other people clicked "no" on your proposal, you will need more votes to reach 60% of the total (yes+no).

you cannot perpetuate this premine fraud (see fake airdrop) without being noticed by officials from the S.E.C.
===>" dev fund" = lambos, hookers & cocaine!!>_>sure hope they take action whoop ass to put an end to your shenanigans ~ fuck off chump !!

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF #XTZ ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
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September 13, 2019, 06:54:53 PM
 #10768




...


I thought the devs started staking from day one, and there wasn't any stake pool software available for quite some time, and they were staking the premine, so they basically collected all staking rewards for the first six or twelve months. I didn't mean literally compound, just that the premine was 10% and they staked it, partially during a time when very few others and no one with as large a bag was, resulting in it now being significantly more than 10% of the total supply. They don't show that in the pie chart breakdown, but I think the premine effectively extends into a not insignificant portion of the staking rewards pie slice.

The POS started from a specific block. All have been notified about the block number since day 1.
This is easily verified in blockexplorer. The tickets are all registered there.
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September 13, 2019, 07:31:12 PM
 #10769



...


I thought the devs started staking from day one, and there wasn't any stake pool software available for quite some time, and they were staking the premine, so they basically collected all staking rewards for the first six or twelve months. I didn't mean literally compound, just that the premine was 10% and they staked it, partially during a time when very few others and no one with as large a bag was, resulting in it now being significantly more than 10% of the total supply. They don't show that in the pie chart breakdown, but I think the premine effectively extends into a not insignificant portion of the staking rewards pie slice.

The POS started from a specific block. All have been notified about the block number since day 1.
This is easily verified in blockexplorer. The tickets are all registered there.

Ok. So the devs started staking the premine from that block, which was well in advance of the introduction of stake pool software, correct?

Look, I'm not trying to say Decred is a scam, please don't lump me in with gembitz. I'm just saying that a governance system that allows very large holders to push changes through maybe isn't the best way. Maybe it would take the devs, placeholder, bittrex, Poloniex, and Coinbase custody to push something thru, not just devs and placeholder, but there is some small set that exists today, whether it's two or ten entities. If Bitcoin used this system then Barry Silbert would have activated segwit2x in like thirty seconds, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Apparently the market as a whole is skeptical as well that Decred is "bitcoin upgraded" considering it's price versus BTC has dropped by over 50% in the last six months.

Again, please don't lump me in with gembitz. It's basically the worst thing you could do to someone Tongue

But if you give me free coins of course I reserve the right to come here and talk shit about them.
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September 13, 2019, 08:40:32 PM
 #10770



Ok. So the devs started staking the premine from that block, which was well in advance of the introduction of stake pool software, correct?



This is totally inaccurate.  The stake pool software is not required to vote or stake.  It's a third party service which allows users to leave their wallet offline and have a third party relay their vote for them when a ticket gets chosen. Everybody could vote and stake from the beginning,  only by running an online wallet.  Which was available before block 1 even existed.  I know for a fact because I'm not a dev and I did it pretty easily...
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September 13, 2019, 08:49:55 PM
 #10771

What exactly was inaccurate in what I said? I would guess most users that received the airdrop don't have a computer on 24 hours a day with a high reliability internet connection. There's a big spike up in ticket price visible on the all time chart here https://dcrstats.com/ around early 2017 followed by a slight change in slope upwards which would be my guess as to when the stake pool software was released allowing broader participation.
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September 13, 2019, 09:16:02 PM
 #10772

What exactly was inaccurate in what I said? I would guess most users that received the airdrop don't have a computer on 24 hours a day with a high reliability internet connection. There's a big spike up in ticket price visible on the all time chart here https://dcrstats.com/ around early 2017 followed by a slight change in slope upwards which would be my guess as to when the stake pool software was released allowing broader participation.

It's inaccurate to say that devs were the only one able to stake from the start, a basic dsl connection worked just fine. But sure you needed a PC.  I'm not sure which big spike you are referring to but the switch to a more steady slope correspond to the activation of the first change in consensus rules voted to switch the ticket pricing algorithm, (sdiffalgorithm )  which was known for having crazy oscillation. In fact you can see pretty clearly on that chart  that if you remove the spikes caused by that algorithm early on,  the mean price is a pretty linear slope since voting started. You can find the details on the initial algorithm and the proposed change here: https://github.com/decred/dcps/blob/master/dcp-0001/dcp-0001.mediawiki
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September 13, 2019, 09:29:09 PM
 #10773

You're putting words in my mouth.
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September 13, 2019, 09:53:15 PM
 #10774

No you can do it yourself....

I thought the devs started staking from day one, and there wasn't any stake pool software available for quite some time, and they were staking the premine, so they basically collected all staking rewards for the first six or twelve months.

Your argument is basically that nobody but the devs could mine Bitcoin until late 2010, because the was no mining pool.  But all you needed was an online PC and internet access,  just like with Decred.

Anyway,  I guess  you don't really care about any of this,  so I'm out..
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September 13, 2019, 10:06:30 PM
 #10775

No you can do it yourself....

I thought the devs started staking from day one, and there wasn't any stake pool software available for quite some time, and they were staking the premine, so they basically collected all staking rewards for the first six or twelve months.

Your argument is basically that nobody but the devs could mine Bitcoin until late 2010, because the was no mining pool.  But all you needed was an online PC and internet access,  just like with Decred.

Anyway,  I guess  you don't really care about any of this,  so I'm out..

Ok, I was wrong about day one, however they still had a substantial advantage over miners and airdrop receivers by staking the premine from the first available opportunity, at a time when most people without vps wouldn't bother to stake.

My argument is more like Satoshi had a significant advantage over other miners because of the 10% premine he had (or course not) taken.

Anyways, I more think the governance structure kind of sucks regardless of the premine.
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September 13, 2019, 10:48:48 PM
 #10776

The claim to the voting system is not entirely clear. Look at the distribution of DCR coins by wallets - “small” holders can, and without any difficulties, create a group of votes that will easily lead the vote in their favor.

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September 14, 2019, 03:33:31 PM
 #10777

LOL the fudders decided to make a coordinated attack.
As has been said a thousand times before, but gembitz e jwinterm ignore, the premine was distributed via airdrop to the community and the other half was not for "the developers" but for the "development fund", which is also used to pay marketing, designers, events, etc.

About the vote, you must also have more than 60% of your total votes for your proposal to be validated.
You may have the most votes "yes", but if many of the other people clicked "no" on your proposal, you will need more votes to reach 60% of the total (yes+no).
LOL the paid pumpers GOGOGOOOO!! Wink when phishing airdrop 2.0??

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF #XTZ ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
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September 14, 2019, 06:29:57 PM
 #10778

The claim to the voting system is not entirely clear. Look at the distribution of DCR coins by wallets - “small” holders can, and without any difficulties, create a group of votes that will easily lead the vote in their favor.

Not sure what you mean..."small" holders still must lock their DCR for tickets. Only tickets vote, and the price of tickets is tightly associated with how many are currently "live" on the network.
It is not the case that people can "create a group of votes that will easily lead the vote in their favor" without putting in the requisite funds to buy the tickets first.
Skin in the game is what counts here. Smaller holders have less skin in, thus cannot sway results as described.

Grow the Dividend Snek! (pm me if you have questions)
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September 15, 2019, 01:11:42 PM
 #10779

What exactly was inaccurate in what I said? I would guess most users that received the airdrop don't have a computer on 24 hours a day with a high reliability internet connection. There's a big spike up in ticket price visible on the all time chart here https://dcrstats.com/ around early 2017 followed by a slight change in slope upwards which would be my guess as to when the stake pool software was released allowing broader participation.

It's inaccurate to say that devs were the only one able to stake from the start, a basic dsl connection worked just fine. But sure you needed a PC.  I'm not sure which big spike you are referring to but the switch to a more steady slope correspond to the activation of the first change in consensus rules voted to switch the ticket pricing algorithm, (sdiffalgorithm )  which was known for having crazy oscillation. In fact you can see pretty clearly on that chart  that if you remove the spikes caused by that algorithm early on,  the mean price is a pretty linear slope since voting started. You can find the details on the initial algorithm and the proposed change here: https://github.com/decred/dcps/blob/master/dcp-0001/dcp-0001.mediawiki

these "devs" have their heads so far up their own asses that they couldn't even spent 5 minutes to show me how to generate a seed to receive my airdrop coins, now what makes you think they would allow control of the majority of voting power to anyone but themselves and bittrex/poloniex exchange insider overlords..stop and think :\ pfft meh ego gets rekt

===> censorship is key to control this dialog.

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September 15, 2019, 02:17:47 PM
Merited by IncludeBeer (1)
 #10780

If you received the confirmation email, then you already had your seed.
It appeared in the first few steps when you typed the commands into the terminal.
Probably, you didn't read everything and deleted them.
Once deleted it is impossible to recover them and it was written there.
Again: If you have reached the confirmation email, then you received  your seed before together with the wallet address but you didn't see
The fault of having lost is your that did not read all the text that received in the terminal.
Do you want me to draw a picture for you to understand easier?
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