Analysis and list of top big blocks shills (XT #REKT ignorers)

[bargainbin]

... This works well enough, just like zero confirmation does in most retail situations.

Apparently, that doesn't work well either. ... For instance from a few sources I've been told that  has lost tens of thousands from double-spends, but kept quiet for fear of inviting more attacks. (apparently they rather foolishly signed contracts w/ merchants guaranteeing zeroconf payments) shapeshift.io has apparently lost enough that they've mostly turned off zeroconf. I've also known about numerous attacks on unattended ATMs. (often solved with cameras and/or AML/KYC) --Peter Todd
 

[VeritasSapere]

... This works well enough, just like zero confirmation does in most retail situations.

Apparently, that doesn't work well either. ... For instance from a few sources I've been told that  has lost tens of thousands from double-spends, but kept quiet for fear of inviting more attacks. (apparently they rather foolishly signed contracts w/ merchants guaranteeing zeroconf payments) shapeshift.io has apparently lost enough that they've mostly turned off zeroconf. I've also known about numerous attacks on unattended ATMs. (often solved with cameras and/or AML/KYC) --Peter Todd

Well, I accept zero confirmation at the retail store that I am involved with running, this is not a problem for me. I buy most of my food using zero confirmation as well through BitPay. I am familiar with Peter Todd's criticisms of zero confirmation but I do respectfully disagree with his assessment of this feature of Bitcoin.

[watashi-kokoto]

For a final solution to the double spend problem, there is only one answer. Sadly it is centralization.

This is the reason why the Bitcoin exists in the first place.

[bargainbin]

... I accept zero confirmation at the retail store that I am involved with running, this is not a problem for me.

If it's not a problem for you, then it's clearly not a problem. Because anecdotal evidence of something not being compramised is what security is all about

I buy most of my food using zero confirmation as well through BitPay.

Well yeah, "... apparently [payment processors] rather foolishly signed contracts w/ merchants guaranteeing zeroconf payments."
Thanks for not exploiting the exploitable. BitPay, security pros that they are, already got owned pretty hard.

[VeritasSapere]

For a final solution to the double spend problem, there is only one answer. Sadly it is centralization.

This is the reason why the Bitcoin exists in the first place.

The double spend problem has already been solved. It is called Bitcoin, and it was invented more then six years ago. I think all of this pessimistic talk about Bitcoin is wrong, this pessimistic view of Bitcoin is being promoted by Core as well. That we need to give up on all of these features and attributes of Bitcoin, so that we can replace it with third parties build on top of a unnecessarily crippled Bitcoin. I respectfully disagree.

[2112]

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Whether or not a person is a shill is an objective matter of fact. There's nothing subjective about it.

The dictionary definition is out of date with respect to the "without disclosing close relationship" clause.
The modern legally standing definition of shill is something like:

Card game shill: An employee engaged and financed by the licensee as a player for the purpose of starting and/or maintaining a sufficient number of players in a card game.

I quote NGCB because their definitions and rulings are considered authoritative even far away from Nevada, practically everywhere with common law legal system.

Shilling (both openly and surreptitiously) is widely used in the various branches of the entertainment industry. Not only gaming (also called gambling) but also e.g. sales of equipment to musicians or filmmakers.

Again the issue with modern shilling is that one can do shilling in the open: with the disclosure of close relationship.

Could anyone kindly quote this entire reply for posterity? Thanks.

[Fatman3001]

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Whether or not a person is a shill is an objective matter of fact. There's nothing subjective about it.

The dictionary definition is out of date with respect to the "without disclosing close relationship" clause.
The modern legally standing definition of shill is something like:

Card game shill: An employee engaged and financed by the licensee as a player for the purpose of starting and/or maintaining a sufficient number of players in a card game.

I quote NGCB because their definitions and rulings are considered authoritative even far away from Nevada, practically everywhere with common law legal system.

Shilling (both openly and surreptitiously) is widely used in the various branches of the entertainment industry. Not only gaming (also called gambling) but also e.g. sales of equipment to musicians or filmmakers.

Again the issue with modern shilling is that one can do shilling in the open: with the disclosure of close relationship.

Could anyone kindly quote this entire reply for posterity? Thanks.

We are not talking about card game shilling.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Subjective List of Potatos
•Red, CuntChocula
•Mazda
•Horseradish
•The act of standing still
•6 or more people gathered around a small fire

[2112]

We are not talking about card game shilling.

Jeez, dude, read all the way to the end, would ya?

Shilling (both openly and surreptitiously) is widely used in the various branches of the entertainment industry. Not only gaming (also called gambling) but also e.g. sales of equipment to musicians or filmmakers.

Do I need to enlarge the font in the last sentence? Or maybe change color?

[Fatman3001]

We are not talking about card game shilling.

Jeez, dude, read all the way to the end, would ya?

Shilling (both openly and surreptitiously) is widely used in the various branches of the entertainment industry. Not only gaming (also called gambling) but also e.g. sales of equipment to musicians or filmmakers.

Do I need to enlarge the font in the last sentence? Or maybe change color?

I see your words, but all I can find from other sources is that casinos used to hire shills in the correct sense of the word, but that the authorities now demand full disclosure.

That doesn't change the meaning of the word. It creates an industry specific term which is not applicable in other contexts.

In demolition there is a term which makes physicists tear their hair out. It's called a "Building Implosion". Demolition engineers like to explain to people that when they blow up buildings they don't actually explode, they implode. But the fact is that there is no implosion occurring. A "Building Implosion" is a series of timed explosions which causes the building to fall in on itself. The word "implosion" walks away unschated.

[2112]

I see your words, but all I can find from other sources is that casinos used to hire shills in the correct sense of the word, but that the authorities now demand full disclosure.

That doesn't change the meaning of the word. It creates an industry specific term which is not applicable in other contexts.

Yes, the meaning of word "shill" has changed, the dictionaries don't keep up with the evolution of the English language. Shill has mostly lost its negative connotation and isn't going to be an effective insult anymore.

By the way, it wasn't "authorities" who demanded disclosure, the "investors" demanded it.

At the turn of century "shill" may have still been a negative word, e.g. Sony officially called their shills "street marketing teams" or "street marketing representatives". "Shill" is nowadays just another occupation, like a "salesman". Except that nowadays "salesman" sort-of became a nasty word, "salesmen" and "saleswomen" are now "account executives".

In demolition there is a term which makes physicists tear their hair out. It's called a "Building Implosion". Demolition engineers like to explain to people that when they blow up buildings they don't actually explode, they implode. But the fact is that there is no implosion occurring. A "Building Implosion" is a series of timed explosions which causes the building to fall in on itself. The word "implosion" walks away unschated.

This is a controversy only for the schoolmarms amongst the physicists. The saner ones have no problems with the world "implosion" because the well-controlled demolition aims to contain the debris within the narrowest possible perimeter.

Anyway, I don't want this to became a language discussion. I much rather stick to the legal definitions of the word "shill", thus my reference to NGCB instead of a dictionary. My guess is that people who continue to think that "shill" is kind of an insult are English monolinguals. But this website is aiming at a global audience.

[Carlton Banks]

That doesn't change the meaning of the word. It creates an industry specific term which is not applicable in other contexts.

Are you available for parties?

[CuntChocula]

...
In demolition there is a term which makes physicists tear their hair out. It's called a "Building Implosion". Demolition engineers like to explain to people that when they blow up buildings they don't actually explode, they implode. But the fact is that there is no implosion occurring. A "Building Implosion" is a series of timed explosions which causes the building to fall in on itself. The word "implosion" walks away unschated.

A bomb explodes, as the air around it implodes. A submarine implodes, as the water explodes into it.
All a matter of perspective.
http://s17.postimg.org/6niasv1f3/Capture.png
Also In an implosion-type nuclear weapon design, a sphere of plutonium, uranium, or other fissile material is imploded by a spherical arrangement of explosive charges., which is sorta like your building thing.
Or not.
What does his have to do with Bitcoin? Destruction, demolition, doom, helplessness and disease (err... dis-ease).

@2112: You should go and edit Wikipedia, too. They need you!

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

So if I see you as a shill, you're a shill? That's an odd way you have with language.

You're the one who's odd at understanding. I could make up a list of planets in our Solar System that includes Laudaria as the biggest planet. Just because I've created the list, that does not mean that the things on it are true. As far as the subjective list goes, I said it could be created but that it does not mean that people on those list are in fact shills.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Whether or not a person is a shill is an objective matter of fact. There's nothing subjective about it.

Dictionary definition: Appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. Interpretation of "shill" is highly personal and subjective.

You just made my list of Potatos, Mister.

Don't worry tho. It's only a subjective list. Until you prove you aren't a potato.

[Fatman3001]

That doesn't change the meaning of the word. It creates an industry specific term which is not applicable in other contexts.

Are you available for parties?

The word party has several uses...blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla
blablablablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablabl ablablablablabl
ablablablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablab lablablablablablab
lablablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablabla blablablablablabl
ablablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablab lablablablablabla
blablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablabl ablablablablablabl
ablablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablablab lablablablablabla
blablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablablabl ablablablablablab
lablablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablablabla blablablablablabla
blablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablablablablabl ablablablablablab
lablablablablablablab......bleeeeeehhhhhh.....blablablablablablablabla..... Will there be free drinks?

[Fatman3001]

...
In demolition there is a term which makes physicists tear their hair out. It's called a "Building Implosion". Demolition engineers like to explain to people that when they blow up buildings they don't actually explode, they implode. But the fact is that there is no implosion occurring. A "Building Implosion" is a series of timed explosions which causes the building to fall in on itself. The word "implosion" walks away unschated.

A bomb explodes, as the air around it implodes. A submarine implodes, as the water explodes into it.
All a matter of perspective.

no

Also In an implosion-type nuclear weapon design, a sphere of plutonium, uranium, or other fissile material is imploded by a spherical arrangement of explosive charges., which is sorta like your building thing.
Or not.

Nope, the explosion compresses the mass, causing it to implode which leads to the nuclear material achieving critical mass, which leads to messed up hair and eerie tone cluster compositions by poles.

What does his have to do with Bitcoin? Destruction, demolition, doom, helplessness and disease (err... dis-ease).

@2112: You should go and edit Wikipedia, too. They need you!

I hope he embraces his non-offensive interpretation of the word and starts using it consistently. He can report back how long it took before he got punched to the ground.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The Humpty-Dumpty Theory of Language.

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't- till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"

"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

[CuntChocula]

...
no
...

Yes.
http://s27.postimg.org/9o6gdjnkz/werdsly.png

[Fatman3001]

...
no
...

Yes.

Hmmm.... ok then.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

 

What should we shill next u guise? Now that we're all REKT, I mean. We could brigade the climate change Reddit for a while? I guess.