[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[nyanhtet]

Just clear about inflation. If all delegates have full productivity, inflation for first year is 15M or 15% of current supply. Assume that if all delegate dump 15M lisk and we share 15% inflation with current price at this time, Lisk price reduce 15% or 0.023$. It is the condition of 1yr later and just on market price, without development of LiskHQ. It is too low. Don't worry Lisk investors. Inflation of Lisk can't strike on Lisk price too much. It's just FUD here. Because Lisk already complete Foundation, their DPOS is decentralised, they will hire good Devs soon(Janaury). So troll don't have bad facts about LiskHQ no more. So they FUD here about inflation. Ahh... I miss something. They still don't publish whitepaper. Troll on this. So they will work hard on this.

[corsaro]

I agree that centralization of voting weight is not good, but  vast majority of LSK belongs to community and final decision who is active delegate can be made by community if there is a need for it.

risk of centralizations, in lisk is really improbable in my personal opinion, due to dpos characteristics and to intrinsec interest of investors and lisk owners

[corsaro]

Just clear about inflation. If all delegates have full productivity, inflation for first year is 15M or 15% of current supply. Assume that if all delegate dump 15M lisk and we share 15% inflation with current price at this time, Lisk price reduce 15% or 0.023$.

it is interest of serious delegates to not dump lisk price I think due to the fact we invested resources, money, hardware and time. Those of us who are following lisk since the ico, joined the community more then 9-10 months ago, and believe in lisk.
Sincerely I have no evidence actually that most part of forged lisk have been dumped. Same for poolers, probably

[nyanhtet]

Just clear about inflation. If all delegates have full productivity, inflation for first year is 15M or 15% of current supply. Assume that if all delegate dump 15M lisk and we share 15% inflation with current price at this time, Lisk price reduce 15% or 0.023$.

it is interest of serious delegates to not dump lisk price I think due to the fact we invested resources, money, hardware and time. Those of us who are following lisk since the ico, joined the community more then 9-10 months ago, and believe in lisk.
Sincerely I have no evidence actually that most part of forged lisk have been dumped. Same for poolers, probably

Yes, just calculate on bad situation, even all dump, not strike price too hard. Sadness is DPOS system is transform to vote exchange system and faucets. Holders didn't vote for promising delegates. Expect it will correct soon.

[corsaro]

if you want, you can vote for lisk being added on coinbase

https://docs.google.com/a/lisk.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2fiKVGs8bBWSzUols16GjetJ0aWx4N1J10SP0NwhG6rdtfg/viewform

[gigabyted]

Sure! but i dont understand why he has to earn fucking: 12'000 LISK Per month

Because this creates a big competition, which is very good and very needed for the network stability and quality. Because only 101 can become forging delegate, those 12k LSK create a big incentive for delegates to provide top notch quality (powerful servers, good protection, well-thought monitoring tools, big amount of invested time). If a delegate would only earn a few bucks per month, nobody would care about becoming delegate and the network would be much more unstable and vulnerable.
Additionally, the 12k LSK allows the delegates to spend parts of it for pushing app development and supporting the complete Lisk ecosystem.

Lol yeah but its unfair, others are making money and not me, sniff sniff!

Man im so tired of that attitude...

Hell im running a testnet since 6 months and i don't expect to make profit from it (at my own expense) and i didn't even submit a proposal for the mainnet and im not even sure if i will at all!

Same fun on the testnet alot less pressure and competition.  And to me the testnet is alot better to have fun, all the real learning is there, not on the mainnet...

[MrPresident]

Only pools must be in delegates. We don't need other delegates. We need a high-end professionals and best programmers, which will be paid from money collected in the ICO, and will implement the roadmap in full. Max must remove votes from delegates

Have we been eating paint-chips?
Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK!
If you took 3 seconds to look at the statistics, only 1 pool even watches his nodes... robinhood.
If we did what you ask and implement this tinfoil theory, the network would become destabilized and fork all over the place.
It's already bad enough the entire pool of 101 active delegates loses lisk because of unwatched pool nodes without failovers or backups.
Most of the current 101 non-pool delegates have worked hard over the past 10 months helping to stabilize lisk and provide the community with a plethera of handy tools. Lose them, and there is no lisk community.
There are currently only about 90 people who have really even proven they can even manage a lisk node properly.
AND WE ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR MORE
If you have any linux or JS skills and a few lisks, you should try.  

[Virtum]

Only pools must be in delegates. We don't need other delegates. We need a high-end professionals and best programmers, which will be paid from money collected in the ICO, and will implement the roadmap in full. Max must remove votes from delegates

Have we been eating paint-chips?
Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK!
If you took 3 seconds to look at the statistics, only 1 pool even watches his nodes... robinhood.
If we did what you ask and implement this tinfoil theory, the network would become destabilized and fork all over the place.
It's already bad enough the entire pool of 101 active delegates loses lisk because of unwatched pool nodes without failovers or backups.
Most of the current 101 non-pool delegates have worked hard over the past 10 months helping to stabilize lisk and provide the community with a plethera of handy tools. Lose them, and lisk is in trouble.

There are currently only about 90 people who have really even proven they can even manage a lisk node properly.
AND WE ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR MORE
If you have any linux or JS skills and a few lisks, you should try.  

Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK! - it is a blatant lie.
For 40 BTC  is possible to run 1000!!! nodes on 1000 dedicated servers and Max could run nodes without help of fucking delegates.
The vast majority of people, want pools. Only sucking delegates are afraid of pools because those will take their place.

[MrPresident]

Only pools must be in delegates. We don't need other delegates. We need a high-end professionals and best programmers, which will be paid from money collected in the ICO, and will implement the roadmap in full. Max must remove votes from delegates

Have we been eating paint-chips?
Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK!
If you took 3 seconds to look at the statistics, only 1 pool even watches his nodes... robinhood.
If we did what you ask and implement this tinfoil theory, the network would become destabilized and fork all over the place.
It's already bad enough the entire pool of 101 active delegates loses lisk because of unwatched pool nodes without failovers or backups.
Most of the current 101 non-pool delegates have worked hard over the past 10 months helping to stabilize lisk and provide the community with a plethera of handy tools. Lose them, and lisk is in trouble.

There are currently only about 90 people who have really even proven they can even manage a lisk node properly.
AND WE ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR MORE
If you have any linux or JS skills and a few lisks, you should try.  

Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK! - it is a blatant lie.
For 40 BTC  is possible to run 1000!!! nodes on 1000 dedicated servers and Max could run nodes without help of fucking delegates.
The vast majority of people, want pools. Only sucking delegates are afraid of pools because those will take their place.

All this on "its possible"?
The current pool forging record speaks loudly, and your "sucking delegates" are the ones who worked for ten months without any returns.
Without them there is no Lisk community.

You obviously have no idea the bash history of a delegate's node since february or what would happen if 101 nodes were handing out free lisk.

[starmman]

Only pools must be in delegates. We don't need other delegates. We need a high-end professionals and best programmers, which will be paid from money collected in the ICO, and will implement the roadmap in full. Max must remove votes from delegates

Have we been eating paint-chips?
Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK!
If you took 3 seconds to look at the statistics, only 1 pool even watches his nodes... robinhood.
If we did what you ask and implement this tinfoil theory, the network would become destabilized and fork all over the place.
It's already bad enough the entire pool of 101 active delegates loses lisk because of unwatched pool nodes without failovers or backups.
Most of the current 101 non-pool delegates have worked hard over the past 10 months helping to stabilize lisk and provide the community with a plethera of handy tools. Lose them, and lisk is in trouble.

There are currently only about 90 people who have really even proven they can even manage a lisk node properly.
AND WE ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR MORE
If you have any linux or JS skills and a few lisks, you should try.  

Pools are the most unstable of the nodes and cause the most dumping. The bulk of them totally SUCK! - it is a blatant lie.
For 40 BTC  is possible to run 1000!!! nodes on 1000 dedicated servers and Max could run nodes without help of fucking delegates.
The vast majority of people, want pools. Only sucking delegates are afraid of pools because those will take their place.

All this on "its possible"?
The current pool forging record speaks loudly, and your "sucking delegates" are the ones who worked for ten months without any returns.
Without them there is no Lisk community.

You obviously have no idea the bash history of a delegate's node since february or what would happen if 101 nodes were handing out free lisk.

Interesting, hopefully this issue will iron itself out over time, hopefully before too much damage has been caused to the coin.

[Virtum]

The current pool forging record speaks loudly, and your "sucking delegates" are the ones who worked for ten months without any returns.
Without them there is no Lisk community.

You obviously have no idea the bash history of a delegate's node since february or what would happen if 101 nodes were handing out free lisk.

-who worked for ten months without any returns - don't make laugh me, cost of one node 40$ per year...
For Lisk not delegates must work, but professional highly paid programmers and experts.
We have to throw delegates in the trash, people need pools.

[devlin]

I read somewhere (another coin .... don't remember....) standby delegates is allowed to forge .... let's say after 101 delegates forging then allow from next 101 standby delegate to forge 2-5 (or whatever). This will not have a major impact for 101 delegates, but will mentain a more healty network. I think this will have a positive impact for LISK.

[corsaro]

The current pool forging record speaks loudly, and your "sucking delegates" are the ones who worked for ten months without any returns.
Without them there is no Lisk community.

You obviously have no idea the bash history of a delegate's node since february or what would happen if 101 nodes were handing out free lisk.

-who worked for ten months without any returns - don't make laugh me, cost of one node 40$ per year...
For Lisk not delegates must work, but professional highly paid programmers and experts.
We have to throw delegates in the trash, people need pools.

OK, everyone owns a lisk wallet can vote for pools. Dpos system allows everyone to decide. Personally I am voting for some pools too like robinhood (the pool with the best productivity and the best payout), and few others. At some time there are a lot of other delegates that are doing a great work for lisk even not running a pool and that are receiving my vote.

With lisk it is only and only the community (with his wallet weight) who freely decides which delegates runs in 101. There is no other person or entity who could decide: <<just the totality of the wallet weight of each single lisker who decided to vote for his preferred list of 101 delegates>>.



P.S.
if you want, you can vote for lisk being added on coinbase

https://docs.google.com/a/lisk.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2fiKVGs8bBWSzUols16GjetJ0aWx4N1J10SP0NwhG6rdtfg/viewform

[LiskHQ]

The current pool forging record speaks loudly, and your "sucking delegates" are the ones who worked for ten months without any returns.
Without them there is no Lisk community.

You obviously have no idea the bash history of a delegate's node since february or what would happen if 101 nodes were handing out free lisk.

-who worked for ten months without any returns - don't make laugh me, cost of one node 40$ per year...
For Lisk not delegates must work, but professional highly paid programmers and experts.
We have to throw delegates in the trash, people need pools.

One OK node costs about $20 a month (2GB memory, 2 CPU at Vultr), but most of our delegates run a better node for either $40 or $80. This is necessary to A) maintain a secure and durable network and B) survive spikes in network usage. I know for a fact that many of our current delegates have multiple nodes running, most of them 3. This way if one node dies, the other kicks in. However, I also know people who run 4, 6 or 8 nodes. All of this since months since the first version of the testnet.

Now look at the facts, until now about 45,000 LSK were sold from the delegate forging rewards. That's about $7,250 and with over $100,000 in volume in 24h this is sustainable.

Lastly, don't take the current delegate distribution as a static fact. I know a lot of people who are voting accordingly to the transparency reports delegates are writing every now and then. I also know persons who are actively tracking if delegates follow their proposals. Voting is extremely dynamic, in a normal democracy you vote for a chancellor or president for 4 years. In Lisk, a (soft) plutocracy, you vote for a delegate for 17 minutes.

I read somewhere (another coin .... don't remember....) standby delegates is allowed to forge .... let's say after 101 delegates forging then allow from next 101 standby delegate to forge 2-5 (or whatever). This will not have a major impact for 101 delegates, but will mentain a more healty network. I think this will have a positive impact for LISK.

Standby delegates wouldn't be that standby anymore then, he? In the case you described it makes more sense to just increase the number of delegates to let's say 201. That is planned, but need to be done very carefully. We also start with sidechain development soon, therefore we prefer to concentrate on one thing after another.

[cointrader83]

Please vote guys!

if you want, you can vote for lisk being added on coinbase

https://docs.google.com/a/lisk.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2fiKVGs8bBWSzUols16GjetJ0aWx4N1J10SP0NwhG6rdtfg/viewform

[Ankara]

Please vote guys!

if you want, you can vote for lisk being added on coinbase

https://docs.google.com/a/lisk.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2fiKVGs8bBWSzUols16GjetJ0aWx4N1J10SP0NwhG6rdtfg/viewform

I have voted LISK but we should all know the coin that will be added lol

[johhnyUA]

You're great attainment for LISK community, but you dont right with your opinion about delegates.

It's cute how Virtum sent you because you speak better english, but I'm afraid your skill is still not enough for you to properly understand what I written (from your post it's clear that you don't) let alone argue with it. So please send someone better, sooner or later we'll get there I'm sure.

I perfectly understand what you're writing. But your arguments still nonsense in my opinion, sorry.  
If you're working for LISK, Max should pay you from ICO funds or maybe LISK fund (where 4 million LISK). Not from forging.
Could you answer for my question: "Why should i buy more LISK tokens if i dont have anything from that?"

[Kushedout]

Please vote guys!

if you want, you can vote for lisk being added on coinbase

https://docs.google.com/a/lisk.io/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc2fiKVGs8bBWSzUols16GjetJ0aWx4N1J10SP0NwhG6rdtfg/viewform

I have voted LISK but we should all know the coin that will be added lol

Done and done.

[Vega]

I perfectly understand what you're writing. But your arguments still nonsense in my opinion, sorry.  

I highly doubt that, as you replied to this:

Do you even know what you are arguing for? If the 101 would be full of pools it would just mean the well know system of the rich getting richter.

and this

But do you know what's the funny part is? I would make more money that way, doing nothing just a quick voting session, than I'm doing now, running a delegate, and about dozen other things that come with being part of a large delegate community. So maybe I'm secretly rooting for you, it would be totally great for me. Not so much for lisk, but what can you do...

With this

Mr.Vega, it's real world. Rich people become richer, BECAUSE they've bought more than you or delegates. It's real capitalism. Do you want more money from forging? Just buy more LISK  

Meaning you completely missed that 1. I'm completely aware of the rich gets richer is the normal system and would be with pools, but what I'm saying is that the current system is better. 2. that I'm not some moneyless idiot clinging to a paycheck by trying to protect the current state of affairs, but saying what I'm saying because I'm (at least slightly) more interested in a fairer system and most importantly a more secure Lisk network than my own pocket. Something that you and your friends clearly can't claim.

If you're working for LISK, Max should pay you from ICO funds or maybe LISK fund (where 4 million LISK). Not from forging.

I'm not looking for a paycheck, it's been a long time I needed a job. However I'm indent to forge and keep forging by doing a very many things last year (and been doing now, every day) to make that happen. If you don't like it that means very little to me. You are welcome to do the same until you outrank me. Buy more Lisk. Talk to the community, the other delegates, about the strategy of voting, make alliances, deals, agreements. Talk about lisk development, app ideas, how you see the future, what are the problems the improvements needes and already implemented, and a lot of other things. Try to figure out how you can better not just yourself but Lisk as well. Talk about any other thing than how you are entitled to more lisk because you have some lisk. Be part of the Lisk community that is actually doing something, and rise in ranks... or try to push for your pool idea, no matter how that would affect Lisk itself. Good luck with that.

Could you answer for my question: "Why should i buy more LISK tokens if i dont have anything from that?"

Why should you buy bitcoin if the miners doesn't share reward? Why would you buy any PoW coin, nobody is sharing. Same for PoS coins or any other. No you are not entitled to anything by buying Lisk other than the benefit of owning that lisk. You just want more, that's not the same thing.

[LiskHQ]

You're great attainment for LISK community, but you dont right with your opinion about delegates.

It's cute how Virtum sent you because you speak better english, but I'm afraid your skill is still not enough for you to properly understand what I written (from your post it's clear that you don't) let alone argue with it. So please send someone better, sooner or later we'll get there I'm sure.

I perfectly understand what you're writing. But your arguments still nonsense in my opinion, sorry.  
If you're working for LISK, Max should pay you from ICO funds or maybe LISK fund (where 4 million LISK). Not from forging.
Could you answer for my question: "Why should i buy more LISK tokens if i dont have anything from that?"

It's a management strategy. You have a small, excellent core team which is pushing the code and partnerships forward and many, distributed delegates which are pushing the ecosystem (network security, blockchain apps, third party websites, services etc.) forward.

If I would have to manage 101 people it would be A) a huge overhead in management, B) very expensive and C) quite inefficient.


This is however only one side of the coin. The other side is the huge incentive for the most secure and optimal delegate node, making the Lisk network strong and robust.