[ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer

[Bgjjj2016]

Hi, Is PassPhrase the same as the Private Key for the wallet ?

[1714212269]

1714212269

[1714212269]

1714212269

[1714212269]

1714212269

[1714212269]

1714212269

[1714212269]

1714212269

[Dazza]

Just i wonder if something like a 2% Pos a year isnt better ? cause it will keep people interrested and wanting to invest to get some extra.

Well maybe it would.  But we've been crowdfunding on the basis that the coin supply would be fixed, so that is a promise we are morally committed to keeping.  So the only source for the 2% is tx and account maintenance fees, and 2% per annum sounds extraordinarily high to me.  I want our coin to be as attractive as we can make it to people for general purpose trade, so I am consistently advocating for low fees.  I am moving away from the idea of zero fees, because transaction spam is a bad thing, however tolerant the mini-blockchain is to it, and should be supressed, but my feeling is, so long as you aren't buying gold an atom at a time, then the tx fees shouldn't be a worry.

If we make the reference wallet PoS by default, hide the option to turn it off in some obscure submenu, and make the standard exit command not actually shut the program down, but merely reduce it to a tray icon, then I think we'll be OK, though we should warn people that it will be constantly chattering to the internet.

[cryptoheadd]

Just invested 0.18 BTC.

How do I check the no of ELC I'll get?

Can't find my tx in this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

[Evil-Knievel]

Just invested 0.18 BTC.
How do I check the no of ELC I'll get?

Can't find my tx in this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

Just checked, it should be at the very bottom.

[cryptoheadd]

Just invested 0.18 BTC.
How do I check the no of ELC I'll get?

Can't find my tx in this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

Just checked, it should be at the very bottom.

Yes, got it.
What does this mean: "mir_amount": 1358.4115740740742

Thanks

[Evil-Knievel]

Yes, got it.
What does this mean: "mir_amount": 1358.4115740740742

I have no idea why it is called "mir", but this is the amount of Elastic Coins that were given to you.

[cryptoheadd]

Yes, got it.
What does this mean: "mir_amount": 1358.4115740740742

I have no idea why it is called "mir", but this is the amount of Elastic Coins that were given to you.

Great!

Thank you!

[Dazza]

Hey dazza,

Thanks for the explanation i know what PoS does, PoW, PoS, Dpos im know to them i just wondered what the miniblocks were

Then I apologise.  When answering questions I try to guess the questioner's level of tech-savviness and pitch my reply accordingly.  In your case, I guessed wrong.  No matter, you got the answer you wanted in the link to the Cryptonite Wiki, and my answer could be useful to others here.

What is Dpos?

Cause i do wanna support but i really dont wanna get burned cause i do so , hope you guys understand.

I understand, but you must also understand that we can't guarantee success.  At the moment, I think there are two potential problems that might cause the project to fail.

The first, as I said earlier, is that we're going to need more programmers.  If we don't find them, then we could have a problem, so if you know of any who might be interested, or you can program yourself, then they or you would be most welcome.

My second concern is that the inauspicious way the project began, combined with more recent PR problems may translate into lack-of-confidence in the coin, resulting in a rush-to-the-door when the coin is launched.  I think the PR issue has receded.  It's been several days since there's been an update to this thread.

I have a plan to mitigate the effect of any rush-to-the-door when the coin is launched, but I'll talk about that when the time gets nearer.

[Dazza]

Coins will circulate either by contributing work (solving these PoW blocks that we talked about and that do not secure the blockchain themselves) or by collecting fees (generating PoS blocks which are meant to secure the blockchain).

These two sentences illustrate just how confusing the language we are using is making it for people familiar with more traditional coins.  We should drop the expression "PoW" for the computations done by workers for buyers.  This is an Artifact Title which no longer accurately describes what they are doing.

I also suggest we drop the word "miner" for workers running the buyer's programs.  Maidsafe calls them "farmers".  I'm happy with "workers".  We should either drop the word "miner" altogether, or reserve it for those engaging in PoS.

With this change in terminology we can explain what we're doing quite clearly and succinctly as follows: As with other coins, you can earn fees by mining, but with our coin these fees will be very small.  The real money will come from working.  Workers will collect fees paid by buyers.  A participant can be both a miner and a worker at the same time, or he could be a miner and a buyer.  He could even be all three.  One use case for this combination is when a participant is willing to rent out his own computer, but wants to buy processing power from other workers who have different hardware.

[xxxgoodgirls]

Coins will circulate either by contributing work (solving these PoW blocks that we talked about and that do not secure the blockchain themselves) or by collecting fees (generating PoS blocks which are meant to secure the blockchain).

These two sentences illustrate just how confusing the language we are using is making it for people familiar with more traditional coins.  We should drop the expression "PoW" for the computations done by workers for buyers.  This is an Artifact Title which no longer accurately describes what they are doing.

I also suggest we drop the word "miner" for workers running the buyer's programs.  Maidsafe calls them "farmers".  I'm happy with "workers".  We should either drop the word "miner" altogether, or reserve it for those engaging in PoS.

With this change in terminology we can explain what we're doing quite clearly and succinctly as follows: As with other coins, you can earn fees by mining, but with our coin these fees will be very small.  The real money will come from working.  Workers will collect fees paid by buyers.  A participant can be both a miner and a worker at the same time, or he could be a miner and a buyer.  He could even be all three.  One use case for this combination is when a participant is willing to rent out his own computer, but wants to buy processing power from other workers who have different hardware.

Nice suggestion, I support it! Although I wouldn't call them workers but I'd rather refer to their computational tasks. I do like computrons.

ps: 73.43 BTC raised so far

[uhhhhwhat]

Hello,

I used a Bitgo wallet to donate Bitcoin on several different occasions so far.

I was able to find my donations using the transaction number (btc_tx) on the record link: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

The public key is listed differently for each transaction. I am wondering how this will work for  Elastic Coin redemption? I imagine it will be some sort of custom exchange site at first before Elastic Coin makes it on to larger exchanges? This is where I could redeem my Elastic Coin back for Bitcoin or for services from the computer cluster?

I specifically ask because I am thinking about donating more but I am worried about the redemption part. I am worried that Bitgo wallet isn't properly suited for this type of transaction.

Are the different public keys somehow linked(hashed) to my wallet address? The reason why I am worried is that I cannot find any place in the Bitgo wallet interface that lists the public keys matching what I found on the genesis-block link. Also, Bitgo uses a public and private key set for what seems like their own Wallet security, which makes things even more complicated. I can't tell if this is somehow related to the same public key listed on the genesis block link, but probably not.

Thanks.   

[worthyou]

Is it possible send another btc from same address?

[Evil-Knievel]

I was able to find my donations using the transaction number (btc_tx) on the record link: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

The public key is listed differently for each transaction. I am wondering how this will work for  Elastic Coin redemption?

All you need is the private key for that public key.
Maybe you could tell us one of your txid, then we can show you step-by-step how to proceed and backup the required private keys. These are everything you need to get your ELC.

[Evil-Knievel]

Is it possible send another btc from same address?

Yes, absolutely.

[uhhhhwhat]

I was able to find my donations using the transaction number (btc_tx) on the record link: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/elastic-project/genesis-block/master/genesis-block.json

The public key is listed differently for each transaction. I am wondering how this will work for  Elastic Coin redemption?

All you need is the private key for that public key.
Maybe you could tell us one of your txid, then we can show you step-by-step how to proceed and backup the required private keys. These are everything you need to get your ELC.

Here you go: "btc_tx": "7d82c06ab76b2044b3579b092eb329e0f7199d6adccc8ebab9c94a839516e669",

[Evil-Knievel]

Here you go: "btc_tx": "7d82c06ab76b2044b3579b092eb329e0f7199d6adccc8ebab9c94a839516e669",

Ah, I see. This is a multi sig wallet that you are sending from.

It is not yet sure how exactly those multisig wallets will be redeemed, but you can be sure that there will be a way to redeem them.
The easiest way is to export all private keys (or in your case the master private key that all your child keys are derived from) and keep them safe.

But I have thought that it might be good to offer an easier redeem service.
My thought: You only have to prove that you have access to that address. So if you do not want to hassle with all those private keys you can request a small amount of BTC being sent to your BTC address and you have to sent it back. This alone is enough to prove that you are the rightful owner of the ELC and transfer them right into a fresh, new ELC wallet. Shouldn't be that hard to implement, but this is something the community must decide as a central authority (here, the ELC redeem helper) would be allowed to access the funds in the genesis block (and only in the genesis block and nowhere else) arbitrarily. Not everyone likes that I think, and if this idea does not find consensus we will have to stick to the good ol' private keys.

Most importantly it is just that under no circumstance you should lose all private key backups AND access to your bitcoin address / BitGo account. Then, it is impossible to prove that you are the person behind the BTC address that your donation came from. Otherwise I see no problem in claiming your ELC.

This is no guarantee, please give me some time to check out BitGo and if they offer any private key backup possibility.

[uhhhhwhat]

Here you go: "btc_tx": "7d82c06ab76b2044b3579b092eb329e0f7199d6adccc8ebab9c94a839516e669",

Ah, I see. This is a multi sig wallet that you are sending from.

It is not yet sure how exactly those multisig wallets will be redeemed, but you can be sure that there will be a way to redeem them.
The easiest way is to export all private keys (or in your case the master private key that all your child keys are derived from) and keep them safe.

But I have thought that it might be good to offer an easier redeem service.
My thought: You only have to prove that you have access to that address. So if you do not want to hassle with all those private keys you can request a small amount of BTC being sent to your BTC address and you have to sent it back. This alone is enough to prove that you are the rightful owner of the ELC and transfer them right into a fresh, new ELC wallet. Shouldn't be that hard to implement, but this is something the community must decide as a central authority (here, the ELC claim helper) would be allowed to access the funds (and only the funds) in the genesis block arbitrarily. Not everyone likes that I think.

It is just that under no circumstance you should lose all private key backups AND access to your bitcoin address / BitGo account. Then, it is impossible to prove that you are the person behind the BTC address that your donation came from. Otherwise I see no problem in claiming your ELC.

This is no guarantee, please give me some time to check out BitGo and if they offer any private key backup possibility.

OK, thanks for the help, that clears up why I was confused a bit.

Once a bitgo account is created, then a wallet can be created. When creating a wallet with Bitgo, Bitgo creates a "keycard" with a "user key"(private key), a "backup key", and a "bitgo public key". Although, I am not sure how those keys relate to the yet different keys listed on the genesis-block link as public keys.

I have those keys. Is that what I need?

Thanks for any additional help, both specific to Elastic or just generally multi-sig wallets.

[uhhhhwhat]

Should I/can I continue to donate from Bitgo/multi-sig accounts?

[Evil-Knievel]

When creating a wallet with Bitgo, Bitgo creates a "keycard" with a "user key"(private key), a "backup key", and a "bitgo public key". Although, I am not sure how those keys relate to the yet different keys listed on the genesis-block link as public keys.

The keys on your key card contain the so-called master keys. Then, a so-called key chain is derived from them creating an infinite number of different keys / addresses for you. The good thing is, that all you gotta need to know is this master key to recover all of them.

You are perfectly fine with your keycard.  

[Evil-Knievel]

I have been working hard in the last days.

Goal:

The goal was to create the world's first mini-blockchain proof-of-stake coin so we can use this as a basis for future development.
As no such thing has been done before, it was required to actually build it.

Note: This does not include any of the computational resources market engine yet: right now (in this early stage) it is just a mini-blockchain based proof-of-stake coin.



Implementation:

I have used Cryptonite's mini-blockchain implementation as the basis.
I have removed the "nonce" from the block header and instead added a "PoS generation signature" which works according to the basic scheme that we have discussed here earlier. Note, this scheme is still open for discussion and may change anytime.
The PoS verification scheme itself has been created from scratch and basically adjusts the "difficulty" after every block based upon the moving average (last 3 block generation times). I have furthermore created one genesis-block that distributes all coins in circulation (in my current demonstrator, it just distributes 2000 ELC to a single address of which the private key can be found in chainparams.cpp/.h. That is enough to play around with so far. All network communication routines have been altered to work with the new, changed block headers.
A dozen minor and major fixes and tweaks to Cryptonite's implementation has been applied as well.

GUI:

Standard Bitcoin GUI is used now, but this will change quickly. I just do not want to spend too much time on the cosmetics right now and do the really interesting stuff first. Of course, at some point we will have a nice GUI that will help to manage the entire computational resource market in a nice and understandable way. One that looks entirely different and novel compared to what we have now.

Missing Parts:

Before I can officially announce a test version there are still a few very important things that I have to do.
- The PoS hash right now it a int64_t value. Currently its just a fixed low value, so that PoS blocks can be generated ALWAYS. This is required because if just two test clients are online, it might happen that both are unlucky (their PoS hash is so high) so that they both cannot "mine the PoS block" for the next hours/weeks/months. (see point below).
- The "miner" (which you activate by setgenerate=true) is not finished. It just wins the block (see fixed PoS hash) trivially and nothing more. Here we will have to monitor all addresses in the wallet, and check for all of them when each of them will be possible to generate a block. Maybe we can display the information somewhere in the client, like "If nobody else finds a block by 11:53:33 GMT, you will find it". Due to the PoS scheme that I have used, everyone can predict the exact point of time that he will be able to mine the current block.

Question, enforce easy mining?:

Question to the community:
When we have only a few people in the network, it may accidently happen that the PoS hashes, which are pseudo-random but constant for each block and account, are so bad that it would take months for anyone to solve a PoS block. (This is a reason why for now I sticked to a low fixed PoS hash for testing only).
How should be solve this problem? Should we allow that anyone can solve a block after some grace period has passed and noone else has mined that block (maybe 5 minutes)? Or should we rather switch from the linear target value increase per time unit (Personal Target = Basetarget * Balance * Time since last block) to something exponential? I would need some input on that.

When can we test:

Once I am finished with the missing parts. I will write a detailed developers guide and instructions how to test the software.
You can check the status at https://github.com/OrdinaryDude/elastic-mini-blockchain and of course test yourself, but please understand that things change there fast and I cannot give any support for the unfinished version.
Please wait a few days for the entirely working test setup. i will try to finish it as soon as possible.

Can I see something?

Please do not get fooled by the visual proximity to other alt coins. This look and feel is just temporary.
The real magic happens under the hood and indeed is a lot of work.