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Author Topic: [ANN][XEL] Elastic Project - The Decentralized Supercomputer  (Read 447600 times)
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May 10, 2016, 10:47:05 AM
 #661

is the ico over?

I think it's still running for another few months, but at a decreasing rate

is there an escrow?
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May 10, 2016, 11:04:55 AM
 #662

is there an escrow?

No, I refuse using any bogus escrow service that is advertised on an internet forum. But it's your BTC to donate or not to donate, and if one of your criteria for doing so is "using an escrow" then you cannot support us.

No, I will not disclose my real name on the Internet. The very simple reason I’m anonymous is so that I can talk freely about a free web. One mistake people often make is having the faulty assumption that knowing my real name or my association with a respected person, group or organization might get them to trust me more. In fact, I have no authority here. Elastic Project is a loosely associated group of developers which constantly changes over time. If you prefer projects with a more centralized structure, then please move on. Specifically, I kindly ask you to refrain from any messages that try to convince me of the contrary. My time is too valuable to be wasted with the same discussion again and again.
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May 10, 2016, 11:09:42 AM
 #663

is there an escrow?

No, I refuse using any bogus escrow service that is advertised on an internet forum. But it's your BTC to donate or not to donate, and if one of your criteria for doing so is "using an escrow" then you cannot support us.

and an escrow service not advertised on an internet forum?
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May 10, 2016, 11:11:37 AM
 #664

There will be no escrow here!

No, I will not disclose my real name on the Internet. The very simple reason I’m anonymous is so that I can talk freely about a free web. One mistake people often make is having the faulty assumption that knowing my real name or my association with a respected person, group or organization might get them to trust me more. In fact, I have no authority here. Elastic Project is a loosely associated group of developers which constantly changes over time. If you prefer projects with a more centralized structure, then please move on. Specifically, I kindly ask you to refrain from any messages that try to convince me of the contrary. My time is too valuable to be wasted with the same discussion again and again.
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May 10, 2016, 04:13:24 PM
 #665

Can we try/visit any demo pages ? It's look like great. Smiley

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May 10, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
 #666

I think I need some input from the community.

This is currently how the overview of own "Proof of Work" functions or should I better say "jobs" looks like.
I fear that it might be an overkill and not easily understandable by the average user.

Do you have any other idea, how to display it visually?
Just to explain what you see here:

1. The title of the submitted job (not sure if that is necessary at all, but it of course helps to keep track of what job does what)
2. How many XEL are left in that job so you can (if wanted) refuel on time (when the work runs out of XEL, of course everybody stops working on it)
3. How many blocks are left until the deadline for that job is hit. If the deadline is met before all XEL are paid out, the one who submitted the job gets back what is left.
4. You see how long the job is active, at which block it was created and by who (obviously, in this overview its always oneself)
5. You see the programming language of the job
6. You see how many bounties (useful solutions from the point of the one who created the job) were reported back.
7. You see a "percentage" of how much of the job has been completed. Currently, its just how many of the XEL that were attached to the job have been paid out to the "miners".

... aaaand, this is how it looks actually:

Now my question: Confusing overkill or not?

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May 10, 2016, 10:03:53 PM
 #667

I think I need some input from the community.

This is currently how the overview of own "Proof of Work" functions or should I better say "jobs" looks like.
I fear that it might be an overkill and not easily understandable by the average user.

Do you have any other idea, how to display it visually?
Just to explain what you see here:

1. The title of the submitted job (not sure if that is necessary at all, but it of course helps to keep track of what job does what)
2. How many XEL are left in that job so you can (if wanted) refuel on time (when the work runs out of XEL, of course everybody stops working on it)
3. How many blocks are left until the deadline for that job is hit. If the deadline is met before all XEL are paid out, the one who submitted the job gets back what is left.
4. You see how long the job is active, at which block it was created and by who (obviously, in this overview its always oneself)
5. You see the programming language of the job
6. You see how many bounties (useful solutions from the point of the one who created the job) were reported back.
7. You see a "percentage" of how much of the job has been completed. Currently, its just how many of the XEL that were attached to the job have been paid out to the "miners".

... aaaand, this is how it looks actually:

Now my question: Confusing overkill or not?

(picture)

Whoever is willing to use Elastic is probably going to take it seriously and willing to read up about it beforehand, so I wouldn't worry too much about it being too complicated. What you will need, though is an easy step-by-step tutorial, either like a microgame ("now click on this, now put number X in there" and so on) or by video.

That being said, I think all looks fine. Once you got what everything means, it's quite intuitive.



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May 10, 2016, 10:09:29 PM
 #668

Looks great, but dude we've been waiting 4ever for this!!  Embarrassed

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May 10, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
 #669

EK, looks great.  My one suggestion would be the use of the term bounty.  From the perspective of the person submitting the work, I'd think they look at it as how many solutions remain, or whatever term is used to designate a work unit rather than how many rewards are left to be claimed.
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May 10, 2016, 10:21:12 PM
 #670

Also, I know you may be trying to simplify the screen, not add more but from the person submitting the work's perspective, would they want to see an estimated time to completion (maybe in a small font near % complete)?
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May 10, 2016, 10:24:44 PM
 #671

EK, looks great.  My one suggestion would be the use of the term bounty.  From the perspective of the person submitting the work, I'd think they look at it as how many solutions remain, or whatever term is used to designate a work unit rather than how many rewards are left to be claimed.

I see, this is really confusing.

Actually, the "Proof-of-Work" process is "twofold". On the one hand people periodically send "proof of work" packets proving that they actually work on the job and earning XEL in exchange. Those proof of work packets are irrelevant for me as the author of such job as they only handle the "measurement of contributed work power" at the protocol level.

What I am rather interested in are solutions that do not qualify as a proof of work, but that are "meaningful" for my research.
Stupid example: I try to find some large prime numbers. The Proof of Work packets do not contain primes but some solutions whose hashes are lower than a target value. I am however interested in the real prime numbers.

This is why I set up some additional bounties in my job. That means:
Every Proof of Work pays 0.001 XEL and every real prime number pays 0.100 XEL (just an example). The latter is the bounty payment.

Without those bounty payments, there is no incentive for anyone to actually submit what I am interested in (here: prime numbers) as submitting PoW packets is sufficient to earn XEL.

Now back to the UI: "7 Bounties" is meant to tell the user, that "7 prime numbers" have been submitted while "61% of all XEL" have been already spent to users that submitted meaningless PoW packets.

BTW: I am open for "more brilliant" ideas how to model such incentive to cooperate with the authors of such jobs.
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May 10, 2016, 10:29:33 PM
 #672

Ok, I get it now.  I completely missed the part of there being 2 types of rewards.
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May 10, 2016, 10:32:37 PM
 #673

Ok, I get it now.  I completely missed the part of there being 2 types of rewards.

Yeah, when using the standard tools as the Elastic Wallet or the Elastic Miner, nobody will have to pay attention to two different types of rewards - all this will be done automatically. But we must retain them at the protocol level, otherwise people will come up with custom miners and strip out everything that is unnecessary and (without incentive) submitting the real solutions to the job would be considered "unnecessary".  Wink

Any suggestion for a better alternative to "Bounty"?
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May 10, 2016, 10:42:52 PM
 #674

Bounty works in this context now that I understand it.  I tried to think of something more scientific, but really didn't come up with anything as truly meaningful terms are really project specific.
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May 10, 2016, 10:59:59 PM
 #675

Was something like folding@home already mentioned as a test case?



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May 11, 2016, 08:23:24 AM
 #676

Ok, I get it now.  I completely missed the part of there being 2 types of rewards.

Yeah, when using the standard tools as the Elastic Wallet or the Elastic Miner, nobody will have to pay attention to two different types of rewards - all this will be done automatically. But we must retain them at the protocol level, otherwise people will come up with custom miners and strip out everything that is unnecessary and (without incentive) submitting the real solutions to the job would be considered "unnecessary".  Wink

Any suggestion for a better alternative to "Bounty"?
It looks very clear and understandable, except the Bounties. This button has two functions, I think its better if they are displayed as separate. First "Solutions #" to show you how results, and "Bounties #XEL" to show you how much XEL was paid for the solutions, or because the latter is less important it could be perhaps shown as #XEL spent that displays on hover "#XEL spent for searching + #XEL spent for solutions". Perhaps a graph of this ratio would be nice, to see how efficient your algo is for solving the problem, but I like clutter and most people don't.
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May 11, 2016, 02:04:53 PM
 #677

Can we try/visit any demo pages ? It's look like great. Smiley
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May 12, 2016, 07:57:55 AM
 #678

Once again a small redesign for the work-overview. I tried to build in all suggestions that you have posted here. I think it looks a lot cleaner now. I will now start finishing the other parts of the UI (showing work details, creating new work). I hope it won't take that long since the functionality is already in the client and working at protocol level.

Here, once again, the adjusted overview. Hope it's better now!

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May 12, 2016, 10:12:36 AM
 #679

cant donate.... why is that?!

To peel or not to peel.
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May 12, 2016, 11:34:38 AM
 #680

EK, I like it.  It looks clean an intuitive to me.
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