Is science a religion?

[Tusk]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language. Let's take this a step at a time, so that he (and you, too?) can understand.

You feel that you can make choices. Sometimes you do make choices. The fact that those choices are programmed into the universe for you, doesn't detract from the fact that you feel that you make choices. Choose God, and the choice will have been programmed into the universe for you.

Your god is a very poor programmer and cant seem to make up his/her mind let alone ours, your "god" clearly is not capable of tying its shoelaces let alone creating the universe. If "god" wanted us to believe in it it would simply be so, if it wants us to choose the choice is ours, If it wants to create the illusion of choice its a very deceptive and scammy god, definitely not worth following.

[Buffer Overflow]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

It's only natural when you see another human that needs help that instinct makes you try to reach out and help them. BADlogic doesn't want to be helped.
I know it's difficult, but please, just ignore this bumbling clown when he starts rambling on about freewill. He dishonestly takes every position in the argument so you have zero chance of winning. See here:

We don't even have free will.

Even the giving of free will to mankind...

We MAY have free will

 

[dellboygold]

I dont think we should relate everything with the religion. Science offer us reasoning, logic and facts where as religion offers none of these.

[organofcorti]

That still does not explain how something can make itself, inserting a "god" is even more ludicrous because there is no evidence for a god. It is more logical to conclude the universe has made itself and like us is alive, we and everything in it are expressions of the living whole. Like it we make ourselves (we evolve both physically and consciously) through our conscious choices that are influenced by our environment and those choices in turn influence our future.

This is why IMHO The most succinct definition is :-

Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated non simultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences. - Buckminster Fuller

  

To say it simply, we don't really have a concept for how something can make itself if it can. Such a concept is not part of our universe. This doesn't mean that there is not something outside of the universe. All it means is that it would be so different that even the word "different" wouldn't apply.



Proof for God

Everything operates by the fundamental law of cause and effect, which is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. This means that even your synapses in your brain fire because of things that made them fire. We don't have free will scientifically speaking. The thing that looks like free will is programming through cause and effect. This is scientific law.

Complexity is worldwide. All the scientists, and almost everyone else, know it. The things that we see about the rest of the universe show complexity as well. So far, the complexity is beyond our understanding. Whatever caused this complexity must have been more complex.

Entropy is universal. Entropy is scientific. This means that there must have been a beginning of everything. If there was no beginning, that is, if everything had always been, entropy suggests that everything would have dispersed and diffused long ago, so that there would be no complexity whatever.

In other words, Something caused a beginning time. That something caused all the complexity. That Something was far more complex than anything that we understand - consider how deeply complex cause and effect is and how it is withstanding entropy's dissolution. That Something fits our definition of "God."



We see no evidence in the universe of anything making itself without something else causing it.



There is no scientific evidence that we grow in any way without cause and effect making us grow the way we do. In other words, everything, even our maturing, and our intelligence, and our thinking, are all pre-programmed.

That's not a proof with any scientific evidence. That means it's not a scientific proof. In fact, in absence of any experimental evidence, it's just illogical armchair philosophy consisting of self contradictory statements and  which redefines common terms while inventing others (eg your previously posted "Complex universe law").

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

So you're giving up on "scientific evidence" of god's existence, then?

[organofcorti]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language.

Wait a sec -- a few posts ago you claim I speak english as a second language.

Here you claim that I barely understand when you speak my language, and yet you only ever post in English.

English can not be my second language and my first language at the same time.

This is a clearly self contradictory statement. It's the sort of error in logic that I'm often pointing out to you. If you want to be taken seriously, you should be more careful when posting.

[BADecker]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language.

Wait a sec -- a few posts ago you claim I speak english as a second language.

Here you claim that I barely understand when you speak my language, and yet you only ever post in English.

English can not be my second language and my first language at the same time.

This is a clearly self contradictory statement. It's the sort of error in logic that I'm often pointing out to you. If you want to be taken seriously, you should be more careful when posting.

See? This helps to prove that English is your second language. If you had understood English better, you would have understood the context in which I was using the words "understands" and "his language," and not even said what you said in your post.

[organofcorti]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language.

Wait a sec -- a few posts ago you claim I speak english as a second language.

Here you claim that I barely understand when you speak my language, and yet you only ever post in English.

English can not be my second language and my first language at the same time.

This is a clearly self contradictory statement. It's the sort of error in logic that I'm often pointing out to you. If you want to be taken seriously, you should be more careful when posting.

See? This helps to prove that English is your second language. If you had understood English better, you would have understood the context in which I was using the words "understands" and "his language," and not even said what you said in your post.

So, what is my language then?

[ZOOM007]

i do not think that science is a religion because science is always a subject or field that need to b explored. but science has its limitation and its rules but religion has also its rules but not like science and its also has limitation different from science. but in religion you have to believe in some aspects that have no explation we just have to admit them. but science wants every thing to explore.

[jossiel]

Science is the religion for people who don't believe God.

They are most people that depend on scientific proofs rather than putting faith to God.

[BADecker]

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

You have just been arguing that there there is no such thing as free will/choice

Did you notice who I was replying to? He barely understands when I speak his language.

Wait a sec -- a few posts ago you claim I speak english as a second language.

Here you claim that I barely understand when you speak my language, and yet you only ever post in English.

English can not be my second language and my first language at the same time.

This is a clearly self contradictory statement. It's the sort of error in logic that I'm often pointing out to you. If you want to be taken seriously, you should be more careful when posting.

See? This helps to prove that English is your second language. If you had understood English better, you would have understood the context in which I was using the words "understands" and "his language," and not even said what you said in your post.

So, what is my language then?

You finally got me. And the funny part is that you double-got me, because here I am answering you again, in English.

[BADecker]

i do not think that science is a religion because science is always a subject or field that need to b explored. but science has its limitation and its rules but religion has also its rules but not like science and its also has limitation different from science. but in religion you have to believe in some aspects that have no explation we just have to admit them. but science wants every thing to explore.

Big Bang is so flawed and lacking that the whole universe would be mush if it had happened according to BB theory. Yet scientists want us to believe it is true. So they get the media to advertise that it is true when nobody knows that it is true, and that anyone can see that it is extremely lacking in explanation. Sounds a lot like a lot of religions.

[BADecker]

Science is the religion for people who don't believe God.

They are most people that depend on scientific proofs rather than putting faith to God.

Correct, except for one major point. Scientific theory is something that is not know to be true. If it were known to be true, it would be science fact, not science theory. Yet, many scientists treat some of the science theory to be truth when nobody knows. So it is that nobody really knows that most of them depend on scientific proofs.

[saiha]

 Religion of scientist is science. They believe that the Earth and other planets were made by big bang and human came from apes.

[Saksham]

I'd like to turn that one upside down if I may.

In Eastern cultures, a valid religion is considered as scientifically verifiable with regard the specific changes in the person... and especially with regard to the direct experience of having a better life. The second may not sound like science, but to the person who has undergone the change, it becomes the absolute truth.

[organofcorti]

i do not think that science is a religion because science is always a subject or field that need to b explored. but science has its limitation and its rules but religion has also its rules but not like science and its also has limitation different from science. but in religion you have to believe in some aspects that have no explation we just have to admit them. but science wants every thing to explore.

Big Bang is so flawed and lacking that the whole universe would be mush if it had happened according to BB theory.

Do you have anything other than rhetoric to back up this statement? Or is it just something you made up? Or something someone else made up but that you believed because you continue to give your critical faculties a holiday?

[BADecker]

i do not think that science is a religion because science is always a subject or field that need to b explored. but science has its limitation and its rules but religion has also its rules but not like science and its also has limitation different from science. but in religion you have to believe in some aspects that have no explation we just have to admit them. but science wants every thing to explore.

Big Bang is so flawed and lacking that the whole universe would be mush if it had happened according to BB theory.

Do you have anything other than rhetoric to back up this statement? Or is it just something you made up? Or something someone else made up but that you believed because you continue to give your critical faculties a holiday?

You have something to back up the statement. It is called the universe, especially universal complexity. Big Bang doesn't account for the universal complexity that exists, even though it might say that it does.

[EUROPEANTURK]

While many in main stream science claim to be atheist and believe in the Big Bang and the eventual Deep Freeze due to entropy. Is it not curious to consider that the very underpinnings of this belief is based on mathematics, was it too created in the big bang? if so how was it constructed? one digit at a time?

I think not it has always been there and will always remain its an eternal masterpiece that permeates every conceivable facet or reality yet in its self it is purely abstract. Without it nothing would exist, but it in itself it is nonexistent and existent at the same time. It is the language of the living universe. Its permutations are infinite, yet it did not grow, it has always been complete and eternal.         

science is absolutely not a religion .. science is helping humanity to survive on earth and discover the unknown facts about the universe.. science is just a tool for finding the truth not a religion for sure.

[BADecker]

While many in main stream science claim to be atheist and believe in the Big Bang and the eventual Deep Freeze due to entropy. Is it not curious to consider that the very underpinnings of this belief is based on mathematics, was it too created in the big bang? if so how was it constructed? one digit at a time?

I think not it has always been there and will always remain its an eternal masterpiece that permeates every conceivable facet or reality yet in its self it is purely abstract. Without it nothing would exist, but it in itself it is nonexistent and existent at the same time. It is the language of the living universe. Its permutations are infinite, yet it did not grow, it has always been complete and eternal.         

science is absolutely not a religion .. science is helping humanity to survive on earth and discover the unknown facts about the universe.. science is just a tool for finding the truth not a religion for sure.

Science isn't helping humanity in the ways you suggest. Why not? Because of the complexity of the universe.

We need a religion that has God Who tells us the major points about the universe in His Bible. Science will never do it for two reasons:
1. The universe is so extremely complex that it will take a hundred thousand years just to figure out what the basic points are;
2. During that time, as is being done today, scientists will focus on believing as truth, things that they have placed into what they call science (theories). Because of this, they will always mislead themselves and other people.

In the two reasons, above, part of why the first will take so long is because of the second.

Don't be so naive - except if you want to be, that is. Scientists are out to screw everybody just as much as everyone else is. Part of the screw job has to do with keeping themselves looking innocent in the eyes of as many people as they can.

[Tusk]

BD, why do you insist on personifying the universe? It is far more spectacular and mysterious then anything human? Also you keep referring people back to texts that were applicable to societies living in the stone age. While i can accept there are some universal truths they preached, they are also filled with tribalism and dogma. Moreover most of the formal religions Judaeo Christian and Muslim are allegories of more interesting ancient ideas that were based on real philosophy and science. An example:- The Egyptians supposedly worshiped the sun, but scratch a bit deeper and you realize the Sun god was a cover story for the illiterate masses who likely couldn't comprehend that an obelisk was a sundial that not only worked out the time of day but could be used to chart the seasons etc. So as time passed and societies grew, allegories evolved to incorporate various tribal cultural aspirations and morals codes. Today we live in a globally connected community that is divided by idiots who cant think for themselves or are being brainwashed by parasites who hide behind shields of religion. We need move past dogma and to take a very critical look at all aspects of our different cultures, celebrate that which is appropriate and worthy (for which there is a lot) and abandon that which retarded.

Yes science does not have all the answers it does not address the metaphysical, it can only attempt explain that which can be measured the metaphysical cannot be measured. Our consciousness, our emotions and the questions of where we have come from and will go to will never be fully understood by science. The universe is far more enchanting then simple measurements.

Here is the conundrum, mathematics is a supernatural metaphysical language that science uses to describe the physical universe.

Ultimately both science and religions face the same paradoxical question of how nothing makes itself and everything?

While almost all agree intelligent design permeates the universe, none can explain how this came to pass? If it is by the hand of a creator then how then did that creator create itself?
To me, the most objective conclusion is that we are living parts of a living universe. There is no need to personify the whole or insert some imaginary benevolent deity existing outside the universe.

Everything in the universe is interconnected but also uniquely occupies time and space. Like the universe our conciseness is self evolving, it does so with an emotional processor that is driven by inputs from our environment though our five senescence senses. Our self awareness affords us the ability to develop our own operating system biased by our environment. Like mater and energy our consciousness most likely can be transformed and does not expire. The Universe is ALIVE! Grow with it!

[organofcorti]

i do not think that science is a religion because science is always a subject or field that need to b explored. but science has its limitation and its rules but religion has also its rules but not like science and its also has limitation different from science. but in religion you have to believe in some aspects that have no explation we just have to admit them. but science wants every thing to explore.

Big Bang is so flawed and lacking that the whole universe would be mush if it had happened according to BB theory.

Do you have anything other than rhetoric to back up this statement? Or is it just something you made up? Or something someone else made up but that you believed because you continue to give your critical faculties a holiday?

You have something to back up the statement. It is called the universe, especially universal complexity. Big Bang doesn't account for the universal complexity that exists, even though it might say that it does.

Those words are no proof. They're just your opinion. You have no solid evidence for any of your firmly held beliefs.