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WildShark
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January 03, 2018, 04:49:48 PM |
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almost time for stage 3 of ION Rocket to FREE fall onto ION Community... if ION price remains above $3.50 Mark ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F45baf9df8095943f7176943e17ce365f.png&t=665&c=ZR-keudzE2uarA)
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DaZuru
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January 03, 2018, 06:10:35 PM |
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Now Suchmoon, don't do what you accused me of doing, picking data points to make your argument look good. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I think our disconnect is the relationship between ION and BTC and the USD. I am not sure of your exact date range, so I think August 20 to December 24 is close to what you have depicted here. BTC went through a huge upward price movement as we all know. The price of ION to BTC went down, but the USD value went up. I did not check, but I imagine this happened to a large number of coins. I took just the two dates, August 20 and December 24, and entered their prices (from https://coinmarketcap.com historical prices) and show that both BTC and ION went up compared to the USD. It is only natural that ION went down compared to BTC due to BTCs huge increase. So to be fair and accurate, I think your chart needs to point out this information don't you? https://i.snag.gy/AUVCqH.jpg
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DaZuru
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January 03, 2018, 06:30:44 PM |
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You posted the numbers yourself... price-wise ION underperforms even the granddaddy of all coins BTC, not to mention top altcoins, and that's just 2017. Looks far worse if you go back to the ICO.
Math gets wonky when you start including or excluding arbitrary components, like staking or forks, or fudge the cost basis like Shark is doing.
And that's before we even get to assessing the risk of a 100%-premined, 75%-team-owned, centralized, opaque, illiquid coin. I guess "shitcoin" covers all that, just being more specific here.
I think a great number of coins underperformed BTC, doesn't mean they are worthless. Just because the math gets wonky doesn't mean the math doesn't work out, just harder to prove without putting private specifics on a public forum. I purchased one third of my coins (vague I know) on 2-16-2017 for .05 average cost. Sitting at $3.25 now. Can't see that as being a loss no matter how I try to spin it. I think the risk is there for any coin, setting a risk factor score would be an interesting idea for a startup? Kind of like FICO, but we call it KINKY. Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings. What is your KINKY score Mr. ICO? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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suchmoon
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January 03, 2018, 07:13:54 PM |
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Now Suchmoon, don't do what you accused me of doing, picking data points to make your argument look good. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I think our disconnect is the relationship between ION and BTC and the USD. I am not sure of your exact date range, so I think August 20 to December 24 is close to what you have depicted here. BTC went through a huge upward price movement as we all know. The price of ION to BTC went down, but the USD value went up. I did not check, but I imagine this happened to a large number of coins. I took just the two dates, August 20 and December 24, and entered their prices (from https://coinmarketcap.com historical prices) and show that both BTC and ION went up compared to the USD. It is only natural that ION went down compared to BTC due to BTCs huge increase. So to be fair and accurate, I think your chart needs to point out this information don't you? No, I don't. It's a chart straight from Bittrex. There is nothing wrong with it. Shark is already spamming this thread with various USD-based numbers, look at his screenshots if you prefer. I think a great number of coins underperformed BTC, doesn't mean they are worthless. Just because the math gets wonky doesn't mean the math doesn't work out, just harder to prove without putting private specifics on a public forum. I purchased one third of my coins (vague I know) on 2-16-2017 for .05 average cost. Sitting at $3.25 now. Can't see that as being a loss no matter how I try to spin it. I think the risk is there for any coin, setting a risk factor score would be an interesting idea for a startup? Kind of like FICO, but we call it KINKY. Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings. What is your KINKY score Mr. ICO? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) You got it backwards. ION is shit because it's shit, not because its price goes one way or another. ION price underperforms BTC because ION is shit. It may not be worthless but it is quite certainly not worth the associated risks. You didn't purchase your IONs for USD. You used some sort of crypto-currency, most likely a far more valuable and less risky one, like BTC, ETH, LTC, therefore trading a better risk-reward ratio for a worse one. Maybe your gamble will pay off eventually but given two hard forkups and an abject lack of revenue-generating business since the ICO, you're basically betting on ION being attractive to speculators on Bittrex. When the whole market is going up this might look like it works (if you use USD basis) albeit underperforming said market. Another way to look at this: even if someone for some inexplicable reason really really likes ION they would have been able to buy twice as many IONs if they just kept their BTC since the ICO time.
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DaZuru
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January 03, 2018, 08:03:42 PM |
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Now Suchmoon, don't do what you accused me of doing, picking data points to make your argument look good. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I think our disconnect is the relationship between ION and BTC and the USD. I am not sure of your exact date range, so I think August 20 to December 24 is close to what you have depicted here. BTC went through a huge upward price movement as we all know. The price of ION to BTC went down, but the USD value went up. I did not check, but I imagine this happened to a large number of coins. I took just the two dates, August 20 and December 24, and entered their prices (from https://coinmarketcap.com historical prices) and show that both BTC and ION went up compared to the USD. It is only natural that ION went down compared to BTC due to BTCs huge increase. So to be fair and accurate, I think your chart needs to point out this information don't you? No, I don't. It's a chart straight from Bittrex. There is nothing wrong with it. Shark is already spamming this thread with various USD-based numbers, look at his screenshots if you prefer. I think a great number of coins underperformed BTC, doesn't mean they are worthless. Just because the math gets wonky doesn't mean the math doesn't work out, just harder to prove without putting private specifics on a public forum. I purchased one third of my coins (vague I know) on 2-16-2017 for .05 average cost. Sitting at $3.25 now. Can't see that as being a loss no matter how I try to spin it. I think the risk is there for any coin, setting a risk factor score would be an interesting idea for a startup? Kind of like FICO, but we call it KINKY. Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings. What is your KINKY score Mr. ICO? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) You got it backwards. ION is shit because it's shit, not because its price goes one way or another. ION price underperforms BTC because ION is shit. It may not be worthless but it is quite certainly not worth the associated risks. You didn't purchase your IONs for USD. You used some sort of crypto-currency, most likely a far more valuable and less risky one, like BTC, ETH, LTC, therefore trading a better risk-reward ratio for a worse one. Maybe your gamble will pay off eventually but given two hard forkups and an abject lack of revenue-generating business since the ICO, you're basically betting on ION being attractive to speculators on Bittrex. When the whole market is going up this might look like it works (if you use USD basis) albeit underperforming said market. Another way to look at this: even if someone for some inexplicable reason really really likes ION they would have been able to buy twice as many IONs if they just kept their BTC since the ICO time. The only way FIAT comparisons don't matter is if you never intend to cash out. I mean you can buy a lot of stuff with BTC, but I sure would compare the BTC/USD at the time of purchase. What do you mean I didn't purchase it with USD? Are we talking about me taking my USD, buying BTC, then turning right around (well maybe an hour for it to confirm) and purchasing ION is not ultimately purchased with USD? This is using BTC as a currency, not as an investment. If I had used a cow instead of BTC as the intermediary currency, would I have to look at cattle prices for the rest of my life to know if I made a good deal? If I had only kept that cow...could have staked milk out of it and made millions. I get it. You don't like ION since it can't beat BTC. I assume there are quite a few that you do not like due to this comparison? If so, do they get as much attention on their forums as ION does? I really do not understand why this is such a dedicated campaign of yours? I don't want to read this whole thread to try and read between the lines to figure it out, so can you just tell me what motivates you to work so hard against ION? I can see someone posting their dislike and moving on, but this is really dedicated. Must have a real reason deep down, and not some glib response please?
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WildShark
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January 03, 2018, 08:30:56 PM Last edit: January 03, 2018, 08:51:50 PM by WildShark |
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No, I don't. It's a chart straight from Bittrex. There is nothing wrong with it. Shark is already spamming this thread with various USD-based numbers, look at his screenshots if you prefer.
suchmoon, I believe you should of stated that I am promoting in the ION thread with positive Ionomy Vision!!! I will leave the spamming to U and report my post to the moderator.. It's free to do it!!!
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suchmoon
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January 03, 2018, 09:42:04 PM |
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The only way FIAT comparisons don't matter is if you never intend to cash out. I mean you can buy a lot of stuff with BTC, but I sure would compare the BTC/USD at the time of purchase. What do you mean I didn't purchase it with USD? Are we talking about me taking my USD, buying BTC, then turning right around (well maybe an hour for it to confirm) and purchasing ION is not ultimately purchased with USD? This is using BTC as a currency, not as an investment. If I had used a cow instead of BTC as the intermediary currency, would I have to look at cattle prices for the rest of my life to know if I made a good deal? If I had only kept that cow...could have staked milk out of it and made millions.
I get it. You don't like ION since it can't beat BTC. I assume there are quite a few that you do not like due to this comparison? If so, do they get as much attention on their forums as ION does? I really do not understand why this is such a dedicated campaign of yours? I don't want to read this whole thread to try and read between the lines to figure it out, so can you just tell me what motivates you to work so hard against ION? I can see someone posting their dislike and moving on, but this is really dedicated. Must have a real reason deep down, and not some glib response please?
I'm not telling you how you should value your investments. If you want to use USD or Venezuelan bolívar - your choice, as is my choice to think that this is misleading as it ignores the very obvious opportunity cost. I prefer to value crypto currencies in BTC though, given the dominance of BTC in market cap, adoption, etc and the lack of direct exchange for most currencies into anything other than BTC. Just as I prefer to value e.g. mining expenses in the currency being mined, not in USD - if I can't mine more coins than I could buy then it makes more sense to just buy the coins. And no, you don't get it. Due to many other reasons (liquidity, risk, etc) ION would still be shit even if it managed to outperform BTC. The whole price discussion is flaming on just because shills like Shark and korvas brag about their brilliant investment using the most ridiculous arguments, e.g. saying that "trolls" must feel sorry because they didn't invest in ION or some such nonsense. I can't imagine any bitcoin holder being sorry for not investing in ION ICO and missing out on the opportunity to halve their bitcoins... thus the chart I'm posting to show the absurdity of such a claim. I'm not gonna go too deep into the fallacies and hypocrisy of your second paragraph. If you have any self-awareness at all you'll notice how you're repeating Garza's talking points almost word for word. Someone saying bad words about your favorite shitcoin is not a "campaign". Perhaps your shitcoin sucks. Just a thought. suchmoon, I believe you should of stated that I am promoting in the ION thread with positive Ionomy Vision!!!
No, you're not. You're making ionomy look like it has two-and-a-half dimwits running their PR.
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DaZuru
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January 03, 2018, 10:41:21 PM |
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The only way FIAT comparisons don't matter is if you never intend to cash out. I mean you can buy a lot of stuff with BTC, but I sure would compare the BTC/USD at the time of purchase. What do you mean I didn't purchase it with USD? Are we talking about me taking my USD, buying BTC, then turning right around (well maybe an hour for it to confirm) and purchasing ION is not ultimately purchased with USD? This is using BTC as a currency, not as an investment. If I had used a cow instead of BTC as the intermediary currency, would I have to look at cattle prices for the rest of my life to know if I made a good deal? If I had only kept that cow...could have staked milk out of it and made millions.
I get it. You don't like ION since it can't beat BTC. I assume there are quite a few that you do not like due to this comparison? If so, do they get as much attention on their forums as ION does? I really do not understand why this is such a dedicated campaign of yours? I don't want to read this whole thread to try and read between the lines to figure it out, so can you just tell me what motivates you to work so hard against ION? I can see someone posting their dislike and moving on, but this is really dedicated. Must have a real reason deep down, and not some glib response please?
I'm not telling you how you should value your investments. If you want to use USD or Venezuelan bolívar - your choice, as is my choice to think that this is misleading as it ignores the very obvious opportunity cost. I prefer to value crypto currencies in BTC though, given the dominance of BTC in market cap, adoption, etc and the lack of direct exchange for most currencies into anything other than BTC. Just as I prefer to value e.g. mining expenses in the currency being mined, not in USD - if I can't mine more coins than I could buy then it makes more sense to just buy the coins. And no, you don't get it. Due to many other reasons (liquidity, risk, etc) ION would still be shit even if it managed to outperform BTC. The whole price discussion is flaming on just because shills like Shark and korvas brag about their brilliant investment using the most ridiculous arguments, e.g. saying that "trolls" must feel sorry because they didn't invest in ION or some such nonsense. I can't imagine any bitcoin holder being sorry for not investing in ION ICO and missing out on the opportunity to halve their bitcoins... thus the chart I'm posting to show the absurdity of such a claim. I'm not gonna go too deep into the fallacies and hypocrisy of your second paragraph. If you have any self-awareness at all you'll notice how you're repeating Garza's talking points almost word for word. Someone saying bad words about your favorite shitcoin is not a "campaign". Perhaps your shitcoin sucks. Just a thought. Deflective, and antagonistic, (Garza comment did not fit the DaZuru response guidelines, unless you were drinking.) I knew it couldn't be as simple as you have been at it so long you can't stop, or that you would lose credibility, or waiting for a big "told you so." I understand that you are flaming the discussion because you disagree with the accuracy and misinformation of posts from people with direct experience with ION and the community. I do appreciate what information you have shared that was not antagonistic. Probably going to take a step back from talking to you if you don't mind? I understand you feel you are right, and I feel that I am optimistically right. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Butting heads isn't going to change either of our minds. It also hurts a little that you didn't make a comment about "Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings", I mean I put in a lot of effort (had to change C's to K's and such) and thought it was pretty darn funny. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I wish you good health and happiness for the New Year.
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suchmoon
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January 03, 2018, 11:36:25 PM |
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Deflective, and antagonistic, (Garza comment did not fit the DaZuru response guidelines, unless you were drinking.) I knew it couldn't be as simple as you have been at it so long you can't stop, or that you would lose credibility, or waiting for a big "told you so." I understand that you are flaming the discussion because you disagree with the accuracy and misinformation of posts from people with direct experience with ION and the community. I do appreciate what information you have shared that was not antagonistic. Probably going to take a step back from talking to you if you don't mind? I understand you feel you are right, and I feel that I am optimistically right. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Butting heads isn't going to change either of our minds. It also hurts a little that you didn't make a comment about "Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings", I mean I put in a lot of effort (had to change C's to K's and such) and thought it was pretty darn funny. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I wish you good health and happiness for the New Year. Your tone complaints are hypocritical seeing how you can't stay on the topic of ION discussion and constantly veer into personality traits (real or imaginary) of your opponent. Ditch the conspiracy shit and we can discuss the ION shit. But if you prefer to act like Shark or korvas - I'll treat you like I treat them. Your question regarding why I post here was leading and misleading, of the "when did you stop beating your spouse" variety. There is no way for me to answer it to your satisfaction. I'm telling you that here is no conspiracy and you keep telling me that there must be one. Not gonna work.
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DaZuru
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January 04, 2018, 01:41:54 AM |
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Deflective, and antagonistic, (Garza comment did not fit the DaZuru response guidelines, unless you were drinking.) I knew it couldn't be as simple as you have been at it so long you can't stop, or that you would lose credibility, or waiting for a big "told you so." I understand that you are flaming the discussion because you disagree with the accuracy and misinformation of posts from people with direct experience with ION and the community. I do appreciate what information you have shared that was not antagonistic. Probably going to take a step back from talking to you if you don't mind? I understand you feel you are right, and I feel that I am optimistically right. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Butting heads isn't going to change either of our minds. It also hurts a little that you didn't make a comment about "Krypto INcome Kost Yearnings", I mean I put in a lot of effort (had to change C's to K's and such) and thought it was pretty darn funny. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I wish you good health and happiness for the New Year. Your tone complaints are hypocritical seeing how you can't stay on the topic of ION discussion and constantly veer into personality traits (real or imaginary) of your opponent. Ditch the conspiracy shit and we can discuss the ION shit. But if you prefer to act like Shark or korvas - I'll treat you like I treat them. Your question regarding why I post here was leading and misleading, of the "when did you stop beating your spouse" variety. There is no way for me to answer it to your satisfaction. I'm telling you that here is no conspiracy and you keep telling me that there must be one. Not gonna work. You are right, shouldn't have tried to understand your motives, and I apologize if I insinuated a conspiracy. I never considered you an opponent. Still nothing on my humor? ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Strictly ION speak from now on, with jokes if I can? I like to have fun most of the time. Please let me know if I drift out of context. I am a long time member of the community. Grateful to be here. I believe with the development completed, and that which is planned, that we will have a great solution for game developers to use. There are currently 495 Masternodes. Average monthly generated IONS at this MN level is 698.5. Current price of ION is $3.34 which equates to $2,332.98 per month. A Masternode requires 20,000 ION. If you believe in the team, the direction of development, and believe gaming is in need of this solution, please give us a look. Remember to never take anyone's advice at face value, do your own research, listen to other opinions, and make your own decision. Happy to discuss ION to the best of my ability. I am not an official spokesperson for ION, so they will probably be here any minute to gag me, tie me up, and shove me into a dark closet. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) More information can be found at: https://ionomy.com/
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suchmoon
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January 04, 2018, 02:32:48 PM |
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I am a long time member of the community. Grateful to be here. I believe with the development completed, and that which is planned, that we will have a great solution for game developers to use. There are currently 495 Masternodes. Average monthly generated IONS at this MN level is 698.5. Current price of ION is $3.34 which equates to $2,332.98 per month. A Masternode requires 20,000 ION. If you believe in the team, the direction of development, and believe gaming is in need of this solution, please give us a look. Remember to never take anyone's advice at face value, do your own research, listen to other opinions, and make your own decision. Happy to discuss ION to the best of my ability. I am not an official spokesperson for ION, so they will probably be here any minute to gag me, tie me up, and shove me into a dark closet. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) More information can be found at: https://ionomy.com/Ok, let's see. What exactly is this "solution" for? E.g. saying that you'll have an ad network with faster payouts or something like that isn't really a solution. What are the actual problems ionomy is trying to solve? We'll get into "how" later... maybe. What do the masternodes have to do with the "solution"? What does the "solution" have to do with the blockchain at all? It's not like the games or any of the powergridstorm services need the blockchain. Everything seems to have a distinctly centralized design.
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DaZuru
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January 04, 2018, 04:46:30 PM |
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I am a long time member of the community. Grateful to be here. I believe with the development completed, and that which is planned, that we will have a great solution for game developers to use. There are currently 495 Masternodes. Average monthly generated IONS at this MN level is 698.5. Current price of ION is $3.34 which equates to $2,332.98 per month. A Masternode requires 20,000 ION. If you believe in the team, the direction of development, and believe gaming is in need of this solution, please give us a look. Remember to never take anyone's advice at face value, do your own research, listen to other opinions, and make your own decision. Happy to discuss ION to the best of my ability. I am not an official spokesperson for ION, so they will probably be here any minute to gag me, tie me up, and shove me into a dark closet. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) More information can be found at: https://ionomy.com/Ok, let's see. What exactly is this "solution" for? E.g. saying that you'll have an ad network with faster payouts or something like that isn't really a solution. What are the actual problems ionomy is trying to solve? We'll get into "how" later... maybe. What do the masternodes have to do with the "solution"? What does the "solution" have to do with the blockchain at all? It's not like the games or any of the powergridstorm services need the blockchain. Everything seems to have a distinctly centralized design. Please review the information at https://ionomy.com/Thank you!
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suchmoon
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January 04, 2018, 05:03:44 PM |
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I did. The PR bullshit on the website doesn't answer any of that. And it still has the ancient "one game per month" roadmap. I'm sorry I was fooled into thinking you're serious about this.
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WildShark
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 04, 2018, 05:08:23 PM |
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almost time for stage 3 of ION Rocket to FREE fall back onto ION Community... if ION price remains above $3.50 Mark ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.gyazo.com%2F1a51031e3f8656989e1d36ee2ea85d81.png&t=665&c=lJTFJRcZlYR_Vg)
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niknik1966
Sr. Member
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January 04, 2018, 06:00:58 PM |
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I can not make a decision yet. Is it worth buying this coin with the calculation of growth in the new year or is it too late? Are there any prospects for growth?
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suchmoon
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January 04, 2018, 06:10:51 PM |
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I can not make a decision yet. Is it worth buying this coin with the calculation of growth in the new year or is it too late? Are there any prospects for growth?
If you enjoy handing your money over to liars like the one calling himself "WildShark" above - by all means, mortgage your house, sell your car and your kids, and put it all into ION.
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DaZuru
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January 04, 2018, 06:14:56 PM |
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I did. The PR bullshit on the website doesn't answer any of that. And it still has the ancient "one game per month" roadmap. I'm sorry I was fooled into thinking you're serious about this. Thanks for letting me know. I will mention it to the Ionomy team. I don't think you can be fooled.
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DaZuru
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January 04, 2018, 06:22:37 PM |
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I can not make a decision yet. Is it worth buying this coin with the calculation of growth in the new year or is it too late? Are there any prospects for growth?
Just to be safe, Suchmoon may not have been serious about putting that big of an investment into ION or any cryptocurrency, but I don't want to put words in someone's mouth. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) There are a lot of coins to invest in, I chose this one. My situation may be different, since I have been around since the start. I gave my two son's some ION for Christmas and helped them create an account at STKE.io. It is run by a few members of our community. It provides a service where lots of people buy shares of a Masternode and share the payouts, minus any fees. Not that you should trust me, you don't know me, but I have been using them since they started the first spreadsheet based Community Masternode service. They have come a long way. Take a look and if I can't feel confident in answering your questions, I will see if I can get someone from Ionomy to help. Thanks for stopping by and taking a look!
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