[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[ThickAsThieves]

I still don't agree with the back door selling of shares.
If Ken can't sell x shares for price y within time z, and that becomes a risk for AMC's operations, adjust the price accordingly.

I really don't see the problem with that.

If he really has a buyer for, say 2'000'000 shares, it's not very likely that flippers all of a sudden will undercut him with 2'000'000 shares (40% of all publicly owned shares).
Right now, there is ~75'000 shares for sale from .0009 and down.

So, maybe Ken will sell 1.9 million of his shares to the investor, and the remaining 100k will come from flippers that undercut him.

Again, I really don't see the problem here, but I might be missing something.

No back door selling, it's a public sell using the options feature, and anyone can purchase them by purchasing the respective option. No one is left out of the deal.

No investor would want to give away money to flippers instead of directly to AMC. That would be a waste of resources. Any big (or even small) investor would want his money to be reflected 100% on increasing AMC's avalilable funds. Speculators, on the other hand, don't care where the money lands or comes from, as long as there is profit to be made in the trade.

Very different audiences. Right now, the market favors speculators, without clear paths for investors to invest their money in AMC.

Bottom line: Buying AMC shares from anyone is not equal to investing in AMC. Buying shares from AMC is equal to investing in AMC.

This is why the initial IPO should've stayed at .0005, then he'd already have all the funding you are all trying to find roundabout ways to get to him.

[Akka]

^^^ Exactly.

And please no back door deals without public disclosure.
Doing Deals like giving large investors discount, by doing share transfers without making this completely transparent are a very effective way to destroy the trust in a company.

[jmutch]

Agree with TAT. An IPO such as this should have been more structured. Shadowy buying and selling has created this mess and created overall distrust towards AMC investment. People in the BTC community aren't idiots.

It's like having pre-mined alt coins. You never know when it's going to be dumped.

[josiasrdz]

buying shares of AMC = investing in AMC (regardless of who sold you the shares)

[Vbs]

This is why the initial IPO should've stayed at .0005, then he'd already have all the funding you are all trying to find roundabout ways to get to him.

vvvvvvv

I'd say keep the 0.0005 price untill all 20M are sold and the funds are secured to invest in new hardware as soon as possible. After that, the market is free to do as it wishes, but the new hardware is secured.

There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.

From my estimates, getting the hardware faster from BTC10,000 from the 20M@0.0005 outweighs the mess that will be selling shares at higher price points with all flippers just waiting to cash in. Maybe shares can sell pretty well at 0.0008, but there's no guarantee that those funds are going to AMC. Right now, at 0.0005, there is.

For each share someone buys at 0.0008 from a flipper, AMC received 0.0005 when the flipper bought it in the first place, and the flipper now receives 0.0003. Since AMC receives all the same, might as well sell at 0.0005 instead of competing in a speculative market, where it only gets a much smaller % of all sales and takes a huuuuuuge time to collect the much needed funds for buying hardware. The clock is ticking!

[hf]

This debate is both interesting and fun, but why are we debating so hard about the best way to sell more shares if Ken didn't say AMC needed more money ATM ?

[kslaughter]

The best way to buy shares of AMC is through bitfunder.com
The price is set based upon supply and demand as determined by the bids and asking prices of people who use Bitfunder.

Hello,
Is it possible to buy shares directly to AMC ?

(...)

Thank you

Actually, that's a very good question. There should be a way to buy shares directly from Ken.

Imagine he posts a batch at 0.0008 and gets immediately undercut at prices like 0.000799, etc, from flippers. Even if cheaper, I don't want to buy from them, I want to buy from Ken.

AMC doesn't see a satoshi from shares bought from flippers, but any shares bought from Ken is a direct AMC investment.

In the end, any shareholder is getting more bang for their BTC by buying shares directly from Ken, as that translates to AMC growth, while buying from flippers does not.

There is another side to the coin which I think few are taking into account.

When we are talking in the real world with new share issues, IPO's and similar - the large investors 99.99999% are able to buy shares cheaper than retail investors.

So, myself for example, I am serious looking at buying a very large number of shares in AMC, but I would not go and by 2,000,000 shares right now from the market (bitfunder) for these reasons:

1. I would be driving the price up in order to soak up 2,000,000 shares - which initially looks good for investors, bad for me, but the price will most likely drop again anyway.

2. Why would I pay more than .0008 on the market, when I know that is the limit set by kslaughter

3. As a large investor, I would most certainly want and hope for a discounted rate than the present market rate.

How that would happen is probably best as a private transaction, but WITH public knowledge. Nothing under the table. I am a firm believer in that.

Then, as it is a private transaction, those shares released would then need to be stapled on to the market again.

My 2 satoshi's as an investor.

And yes, I am seriously interested in a large investment.

.0008 is the lower limit not the upper limit.

[bigdude]

^^^ Exactly.

And please no back door deals without public disclosure.
Doing Deals like giving large investors discount, by doing share transfers without making this completely transparent are a very effective way to destroy the trust in a company.

I agree with you on the no back door deals.

I DO think selling a large amount of shares off of BitFunder to large investors, even at a discount, is fine though - BUT .... it can not be some secret under the table transaction.

As I said earlier, there needs to be full disclosure to the market, to the existing shareholders. It could even be a bit democratic, get feedback from the shareholders, a kind of un official approval (but thats another matter).

For me, yes to large investors, even off bitfunder, but full PRIOR disclosure is a must.

[bigdude]

The best way to buy shares of AMC is through bitfunder.com
The price is set based upon supply and demand as determined by the bids and asking prices of people who use Bitfunder.

Hello,
Is it possible to buy shares directly to AMC ?

(...)

Thank you

Actually, that's a very good question. There should be a way to buy shares directly from Ken.

Imagine he posts a batch at 0.0008 and gets immediately undercut at prices like 0.000799, etc, from flippers. Even if cheaper, I don't want to buy from them, I want to buy from Ken.

AMC doesn't see a satoshi from shares bought from flippers, but any shares bought from Ken is a direct AMC investment.

In the end, any shareholder is getting more bang for their BTC by buying shares directly from Ken, as that translates to AMC growth, while buying from flippers does not.

There is another side to the coin which I think few are taking into account.

When we are talking in the real world with new share issues, IPO's and similar - the large investors 99.99999% are able to buy shares cheaper than retail investors.

So, myself for example, I am serious looking at buying a very large number of shares in AMC, but I would not go and by 2,000,000 shares right now from the market (bitfunder) for these reasons:

1. I would be driving the price up in order to soak up 2,000,000 shares - which initially looks good for investors, bad for me, but the price will most likely drop again anyway.

2. Why would I pay more than .0008 on the market, when I know that is the limit set by kslaughter

3. As a large investor, I would most certainly want and hope for a discounted rate than the present market rate.

How that would happen is probably best as a private transaction, but WITH public knowledge. Nothing under the table. I am a firm believer in that.

Then, as it is a private transaction, those shares released would then need to be stapled on to the market again.

My 2 satoshi's as an investor.

And yes, I am seriously interested in a large investment.

.0008 is the lower limit not the upper limit.

Understood - which is why i said limit ... not max limit

The problem with having any limit, is that it provides a false guide to the market ... and people will hover around  it. But, not so much of a biggy

[Vbs]

or if you like ... he can use "Options Trading" set the price and sell directly to  buyer..

Yes, this might function as a workaround for the time being!

For selling, for example at 0.0008, Ken could issue a "Call Option" of 5,000,000 shares with an expiration of one day at a strike price of 0.0007 and option price of 0.0001 (or 0.00011111) and breakable ofc.

Since BitFunder takes a 10% cut of the option price (not of the strike price), having it at 0.0001 keeps fees low, while at the same time gets costly for anyone trying to undermine the sell by buying the option without executing it. Issuing options daily with an expiration time of one day also serves this purpose. Anyone buying the option without executing it is also paying BTC to AMC.

(On the example above, AMC gets this way: 0.0007+0.0001*0.9 = 0.00079/share or 0.0007+0.00011111*0.9 = 0.00079999/share).

I still say this is a good solution considering everything and allows for buying of shares directly from Ken (when he needs to sell them).

[stereotype]

This debate is both interesting and fun, but why are we debating so hard about the best way to sell more shares if Ken didn't say AMC needed more money ATM ?

"This was just a little test to see how the market reacted to a few shares (~150,000) being sold.  We are starting to spin up Avalon boards to get ready for the 20,000 chips we have on order.  In the next few weeks there may be a need for increased capital.  I am working hard to increase the price of AMC's shares and get the most value from the shares that AMC still holds."

[bigdude]

This debate is both interesting and fun, but why are we debating so hard about the best way to sell more shares if Ken didn't say AMC needed more money ATM ?

"This was just a little test to see how the market reacted to a few shares (~150,000) being sold.  We are starting to spin up Avalon boards to get ready for the 20,000 chips we have on order.  In the next few weeks there may be a need for increased capital.  I am working hard to increase the price of AMC's shares and get the most value from the shares that AMC still holds."

Nice pickup there stereotype

[stereotype]

This debate is both interesting and fun, but why are we debating so hard about the best way to sell more shares if Ken didn't say AMC needed more money ATM ?

"This was just a little test to see how the market reacted to a few shares (~150,000) being sold.  We are starting to spin up Avalon boards to get ready for the 20,000 chips we have on order.  In the next few weeks there may be a need for increased capital.  I am working hard to increase the price of AMC's shares and get the most value from the shares that AMC still holds."

Nice pickup there stereotype

I try bigdude. I try. 

Hope you can come on-board, with a mutual agreement with AMC/Ken.

[Ashitank]

So whats the news on Dividends tomorrow , any estimates people

[kslaughter]

So whats the news on Dividends tomorrow , any estimates people

Sometime today, running 143.58% luck, so trying to get a little more in so the dividend will be higher before we pay out the dividends.

[bigdude]

This debate is both interesting and fun, but why are we debating so hard about the best way to sell more shares if Ken didn't say AMC needed more money ATM ?

"This was just a little test to see how the market reacted to a few shares (~150,000) being sold.  We are starting to spin up Avalon boards to get ready for the 20,000 chips we have on order.  In the next few weeks there may be a need for increased capital.  I am working hard to increase the price of AMC's shares and get the most value from the shares that AMC still holds."

Nice pickup there stereotype

I try bigdude. I try. 

Hope you can come on-board, with a mutual agreement with AMC/Ken.

LOL

[ChefBorjan]

I'd completely forgotten about divs, haha, so looking forward to them.

[kslaughter]

Daily Earning Report and Payment For Dividends Less a 10% Expenses Hold Back.

[Vbs]

(34.38175308 - 0.0005) * 0.9 / 40,000,000 = 0.00000077/share (including btc tx fee)

[canuck]

Is a 10% holdback stipulated in the contract? I apologize for the request for edification but I'm driving and not in a position to properly review it.