THE RISE AND RISE OF MONERO

[B8888]

What do you constitute this so called "Rise" ?
And Rise again ? From where to where ?

What has Monero accomplished and where is it going longer term ?

It depends what aspect you are interested in. I hope you can check price how it moved from January till August or when this tread started. I think OP thought just general awareness or maybe just price.  That is my suspicion, you could PM him and ask what about Monero surprised him that much to use this Tittle.


Monero is just on beginning of its path so had not accomplished almost nothing. It is just there for everyone to test and use it. I have no really vision what will be with Monero long term.  It is an experiment.  I do believe a successful.

I used the title because I believe in the project. I have been buying XMR since it was trading at a stable .50 - 1.00 area. Great project and tech.

PS. My account Blazin8888 was hacked a few months back around the same time when the bitcointalk forum passwords went up for sale on the dark web. I cant get my account back, have contacted Theymos.

[Spoetnik]

What is the goal ? DM usage ?

What other usage is there for crypto ?  DM taken in the broader sense of "economic liberty" of course, because that's what DM are: free exchange without govs stealing (taxes), without govs imposing their buddy's certifications, without govs imposing their forms of protectionism, without govs imposing who may trade what with whom against what tariffs, ....

If the economic act you want to do with crypto is fully legal, why not do it with fiat ?

The below picture.. was not about "buddy certifications".



It was about warning people about fraud, unfair practices etc.
Remember when Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff was arrested ?
I guess that was bad right ? They should have let them go ?

AML ?

Firms must comply with the Bank Secrecy Act and its implementing regulations ("Anti-Money Laundering rules"). The purpose of the AML rules is to help detect and report suspicious activity including the predicate offenses to money laundering and terrorist financing, such as securities fraud and market manipulation.

Stealing ? (taxes)

Then i suggest you don't ever call 911 for services and don't put your garbage out for pickup or drive on public roads etc......

This whole anti-govt thing you got going on is getting a bit silly.
If you need to fight them then can i suggest you create your own internet ?
Who do you think manages the web for all of the USA ? it's the US DOD running the backbone / relays etc.

I love how your type love to reap the rewards every step of the way when it comes to the services provided by taxation.. except you just feel like it's not your obligation to contribute to paying your proper share.

You remind me of our Canadian Native Indians who get a massive tax break on things like Tobacco and get their own land etc and are not forced to pay the same tax as every other Canadian except they are entitled to ALL of the same services we are and much much MORE !

[ArticMine]

...

Well, point me then to one of your explanations, because I never saw one.  I only saw that each time I asked you, you told me that you weren't going to answer "because you already did so in the past".

My point is that a fully law-abiding crypto has no use over fiat.  So I think that someone who is at the same time claiming that crypto should be fully law-abiding, should not be into crypto, or is making some logical mistake, or is simply in it for the greater-fool game, at which point I think that wanting to attract people into a Ponzi scheme is a dishonest (but potentially lucrative) thing to do.

Wrong. Ever tried sending say $50 to an individual across the world where that individual does not have a bank account, credit card PayPal etc.? If one takes the position that the only valid legal  payments are from the 1% to the 0.0001% where electronic fiat payments actually work then I would agree with the premise that there is no legal use for crypto, but when one actually tries to make a payment to not just a member of the poor but even to a member of the middle class electronic fiat payments fail miserably especially across international borders.

By the way buying drugs on the dark markets involves payments to the 0.0001% so that is not the primary application of crypto.

[Hueristic]

I doubt i have much more to add here.. at this point i am repeating myself.

You never repeated why you are interested in crypto in the first place, and why on earth you would think it has something to offer over fiat, if the idea is to fully comply to the laws.

Because if crypto is fully complying to the laws, I don't see what advantages it can bring over fiat.  In fact, I can only see problems.  Fiat is much better than crypto if you're fully complying, no ?

Well for one they won't be able to create funds out of thin air as they do now and for another it will cut down on the amount of bankers. Well thats off the top of my head.

Monero is only useful if you're buying something illegal but I'm doubt if it can ever get more attention. Anonymous coins has very small niche for adoption Monero has no marketing plan and it is only associated with criminals. It also doesn't help to spread a word about XMR. Having this said, how can you expect ordinary Joe to use this currency, for example, buying a cup of coffe? Why he needs it? In my opinion, Monero should continue to do what it is doing but I do not expect the rise of adoption or price. 

What a retarded statement, do you know it's a seizeable offense to drive around with a "sizable" amount of funds without proof of where you got it and where you are going to spend it? BTW where is it defined what a "sizable" amount is??? I for one carry thousands all the time and that is for legitimate purposes. Thousands of people have been looted by Highway Bandits (dressed as cops) that work for TPTB, try using google it works you know.

[Spoetnik]

What do you constitute this so called "Rise" ?
And Rise again ? From where to where ?

What has Monero accomplished and where is it going longer term ?

It depends what aspect you are interested in. I hope you can check price how it moved from January till August or when this tread started. I think OP thought just general awareness or maybe just price.  That is my suspicion, you could PM him and ask what about Monero surprised him that much to use this Tittle.


Monero is just on beginning of its path so had not accomplished almost nothing. It is just there for everyone to test and use it. I have no really vision what will be with Monero long term.  It is an experiment.  I do believe a successful.

This right here mirrors what i have been saying all along yet when i say it i am a Troll FUD'ing with lies.  

People read what their own dev's / supporters and whale sugar daddy's are saying.
You will notice they are taking turns repeating ole evil Spoetnik word for word.
Should i neg them for lying too ?

So ? Should i decimate this comment he made and shred it to pieces or should i just let stand as blatantly fucking stupid ?
I mean shit, say the word and i will tear him a new one over that    

PS:
I would start with the fact this was a price speculation topic by the looks of it 
Considering i just quoted a dev who submitted code to Monero claiming Monero has done fuck all ROFL

[dinofelis]

Wrong. Ever tried sending say $50 to an individual across the world where that individual does not have a bank account, credit card PayPal etc.?

Well, first of all, to answer your question, no, I never did so, and I wouldn't see any reason to do so.  Because the only reason to do so for me would be to buy something from that person, and strictly legally, I'm not allowed to buy anything from anyone if that person is not a registered business.  There is some *tolerance* for small amounts like on sunday-type second-hand markets, but strictly speaking it is not legal.  You are only supposed to buy stuff from registered businesses, and pay VAT on it (unless there's a legal exception).   You're not supposed to do a donation that is not registered either.  Yes, there is some *tolerance* for small amounts.  But normally you should report it, because the receiver should put it in its income tax declaration.   If you are a registered business, you are legally OBLIGED to possess a bank account attached to your professional activities.  So for strictly legal stuff, there's in fact no possibility to "send 50 dollars to someone that has no bank account" if it is to buy something.   And no, I donate nothing to anybody abroad, why would I ?

Strictly legally, I'm not supposed to buy anything abroad from a country that has no bilateral trade agreement with the country I live in, and most of the time, in that case, similar rules apply: the foreign business must be a registered business, and the payment must be through a bank transfer of some kind.

So most of the time "sending money to someone abroad who doesn't have a bank account" is illegal (but tolerated for small amounts).

The second point is: hell, it is much easier to set up a state bank with just a bank account for these people than doing crypto, isn't it ?  How do these people without an account pay their income tax ? 

If one takes the position that the only valid legal  payments are from the 1% to the 0.0001% where electronic fiat payments actually work then I would agree with the premise that there is no legal use for crypto, but when one actually tries to make a payment to not just a member of the poor but even to a member of the middle class electronic fiat payments fail miserably especially across international borders.

In very much most of these cases, these payments are illegal, even if tolerated for small amounts.

But next: what on earth would someone not even having a bank account, do with crypto ?  Don't you think that the infrastructure to give these people fiat bank accounts is way way easier to set up than to have them have a generalized use of crypto ?  There's a huge banking opportunity in these places.  If banks are not interested, then that's mostly because it is probably legally too much of a hassle, but IF it is legally too much of a hassle, that means that most things that people would do with crypto, would probably be illegal.  Otherwise, setting up a bank for these people would be easy too, and then, why is no bank doing so ?

By the way buying drugs on the dark markets involves payments to the 0.0001% so that is not the primary application of crypto.

To me, dark markets are not necessarily about drugs, but about any economic relationship that wants to escape taxing or regulation.  Like the 50 dollars mentioned above.  I would rather call them "free markets".

[dinofelis]

I doubt i have much more to add here.. at this point i am repeating myself.

You never repeated why you are interested in crypto in the first place, and why on earth you would think it has something to offer over fiat, if the idea is to fully comply to the laws.

Because if crypto is fully complying to the laws, I don't see what advantages it can bring over fiat.  In fact, I can only see problems.  Fiat is much better than crypto if you're fully complying, no ?

Well for one they won't be able to create funds out of thin air as they do now and for another it will cut down on the amount of bankers. Well thats off the top of my head.

This isn't true, actually.  You're thinking of sound money theory, but that is in fact a flawed idea, because it makes a premise that isn't true with crypto: that the "sound money" has at the same time, the monopoly status of money.  If a type of money is just having one market share of the "money market", then the sound money doctrine is broken, because then "shrinking market share" is identical to "money printing".

If the crypto market has continuous creation of new crypto, and if those new coins eat away from the market share of the established crypto, then this IS a from of "new money printing".  Another form of money printing is hard forking (which is in fact nothing else but a specific case of new coin creation).

So no, the "sound money doctrine" has no meaning in a free money market with new coin creation, hard forking and so on.

But the second point is of course even more important.  If the state considers that it needs to print more money, then it will make a legal system in which this is of course possible.  In as much as a crypto is law-abiding, the state will of course find a way to do the same thing with crypto.  There are different ways.  One way can be a systematic confiscation of a percentage of all crypto.  They will want to own all secret keys of all "legal" crypto wallets in the end, so they can easily take a part of every wallet.  As such, they don't break the amount of coin, but just "take them back".
They can impose THEIR crypto: the only allowed crypto could be "state minted crypto" where "mining/minting" by any other entity but a state-approved entity is considered counterfeiting (or is made cryptographically impossible as they have a golden key).
Look at gold: the state couldn't "print gold" either, but they found ways around it, rendered monetary gold possession illegal and so on.  Legal crypto can only go the same way.

And concerning 'bankers', I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, the only legal crypto would be some bank-owned crypto.  In that case, crypto has become fully legal fiat, with the bankers being the state-allowed officers keeping the secret keys and so on, and the customer just doing what he's doing now: contacting his bank.

[Hueristic]

I doubt i have much more to add here.. at this point i am repeating myself.

You never repeated why you are interested in crypto in the first place, and why on earth you would think it has something to offer over fiat, if the idea is to fully comply to the laws.

Because if crypto is fully complying to the laws, I don't see what advantages it can bring over fiat.  In fact, I can only see problems.  Fiat is much better than crypto if you're fully complying, no ?

Well for one they won't be able to create funds out of thin air as they do now and for another it will cut down on the amount of bankers. Well thats off the top of my head.

This isn't true, actually.  You're thinking of sound money theory, but that is in fact a flawed idea, because it makes a premise that isn't true with crypto: that the "sound money" has at the same time, the monopoly status of money.  If a type of money is just having one market share of the "money market", then the sound money doctrine is broken, because then "shrinking market share" is identical to "money printing".

If the crypto market has continuous creation of new crypto, and if those new coins eat away from the market share of the established crypto, then this IS a from of "new money printing".  Another form of money printing is hard forking (which is in fact nothing else but a specific case of new coin creation).

So no, the "sound money doctrine" has no meaning in a free money market with new coin creation, hard forking and so on.

But the second point is of course even more important.  If the state considers that it needs to print more money, then it will make a legal system in which this is of course possible.  In as much as a crypto is law-abiding, the state will of course find a way to do the same thing with crypto.  There are different ways.  One way can be a systematic confiscation of a percentage of all crypto.  They will want to own all secret keys of all "legal" crypto wallets in the end, so they can easily take a part of every wallet.  As such, they don't break the amount of coin, but just "take them back".
They can impose THEIR crypto: the only allowed crypto could be "state minted crypto" where "mining/minting" by any other entity but a state-approved entity is considered counterfeiting (or is made cryptographically impossible as they have a golden key).
Look at gold: the state couldn't "print gold" either, but they found ways around it, rendered monetary gold possession illegal and so on.  Legal crypto can only go the same way.

And concerning 'bankers', I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, the only legal crypto would be some bank-owned crypto.  In that case, crypto has become fully legal fiat, with the bankers being the state-allowed officers keeping the secret keys and so on, and the customer just doing what he's doing now: contacting his bank.

Anything is possible, nite.

[Spoetnik]

1 guy admits there is a problem and 99.99% go silent.
Since there is a serious problem with coin adoption uhhhhh why is no one talking about it ?
Is it because of the Monero retards chanting "lies" ?
It wasn't a lie when the FBI guy said they would be or have been looking into Monero.
There is nothing to deny or play dumb about.

The battle has already begun and all of you are losing with your head in the sand.

Don't like the ole govt and paying taxes ?
What are you gonna do when North Korea wants to jam it's flag up your ass ?
Who has them military jets and how were they paid for ?

I'm just gonna kick back and watch it unfold  

Go buy more Monero anon coins at Polo with your picture ID Investards.. that'll teach them !
When your done that head over to fluffpony's *mostly* secure Gambling site for "no laws" gambling.
Don't forget to hide your revenue from the IRS / REV-CAN etc when tax time comes..
Which is right now in Canada

Don't worry you don't have to pay anything.. just print out and tack onto your tax return Dino's speech about how he doesn't like laws or paying taxes and how Infowars says the govt is corrupt & shit.

If all else fails just chant FUD and buy moar cheap coinz nom nom nom

Because you know.. Monero's "rise & rise"  

[dinofelis]

Don't like the ole govt and paying taxes ?
What are you gonna do when North Korea wants to jam it's flag up your ass ?
Who has them military jets and how were they paid for ?

Who built them ?   Private companies, right ?  What would stop people *that want to* to pay for them on a voluntary basis ?  If you are afraid that Kim comes to shove his flag up to your ass, you're free to join such an association.  And if not, you shouldn't contribute.  If, by doing so, you also protect my ass for free, that's a choice you'll have to make.  Pay voluntarily for it, and give me also a free lunch, or don't pay for it, and run the risk.

There's absolutely no need for any compulsory contribution to anything.  If you want it, organize it and pay for it.  If you don't want it, don't bother, but don't complain.  If you pay for it, and others profit from it, that's their good right.  Up to you.

[Febo]

People read what their own dev's / supporters and whale sugar daddy's are saying.

People read what they are interested in. And then since they know they also start to write about it and teach others. It is that simple. I dont talk about coins or algorithms or whatever that i have no ideas of.  I have ideas of few coins and of few projects and i write about them here. I would love to know all coins that are discuses on this forum, but would need days with 1000 hours for that.

Don't like the ole govt and paying taxes ?
What are you gonna do when North Korea wants to jam it's flag up your ass ?
Who has them military jets and how were they paid for ?

Go buy more Monero anon coins at Polo with your picture ID Investards.. that'll teach them !
When your done that head over to fluffpony's *mostly* secure Gambling site for "no laws" gambling.
Don't forget to hide your revenue from the IRC / REV-CAN etc when tax time comes..
Which is right now in Canada

Everyone need to pay taxes. Maybe in USA they might cancel that since got country president that claims he dont pay them.

with crypto there will still be taxes. They will just need to be restructured. It is hard to believe you spend so much time here on this forum and had not come to some thread teaching you this.

Country needs taxes to work. There cant be a country without taxes. Taxes will always exist. But will not be as now. Now work is heavily taxed. I doubt this will be in future. About asset, most taxes will be on asset that cant be moved. that is easiest to do. Also on spending. I am not specialist in this matter, but I am not worried that  governments will not find perfect solutions for this.

Crypto will bring so much new GDP that they will be more that happy to redistribute. This redistribution will be sort of sweet for them.

[Spoetnik]

People read what their own dev's / supporters and whale sugar daddy's are saying.

People read what they are interested in. And then since they know they also start to write about it and teach others. It is that simple. I dont talk about coins or algorithms or whatever that i have no ideas of.  I have ideas of few coins and of few projects and i write about them here. I would love to know all coins that are discuses on this forum, but would need days with 1000 hours for that.

Don't like the ole govt and paying taxes ?
What are you gonna do when North Korea wants to jam it's flag up your ass ?
Who has them military jets and how were they paid for ?

Go buy more Monero anon coins at Polo with your picture ID Investards.. that'll teach them !
When your done that head over to fluffpony's *mostly* secure Gambling site for "no laws" gambling.
Don't forget to hide your revenue from the IRC / REV-CAN etc when tax time comes..
Which is right now in Canada

Everyone need to pay taxes. Maybe in USA they might cancel that since got country president that claims he dont pay them.

with crypto there will still be taxes. They will just need to be restructured. It is hard to believe you spend so much time here on this forum and had not come to some thread teaching you this.

Country needs taxes to work. There cant be a country without taxes. Taxes will always exist. But will not be as now. Now work is heavily taxed. I doubt this will be in future. About asset, most taxes will be on asset that cant be moved. that is easiest to do. Also on spending. I am not specialist in this matter, but I am not worried that  governments will not find perfect solutions for this.

Crypto will bring so much new GDP that they will be more that happy to redistribute. This redistribution will be sort of sweet for them.

People read what they are interested in and what Monero idiots did not delete .
Monero is the king here of walled garden bullying censorship period.

Dino you need to work on staying on topic as i have alluded to countless times.
I grow tired of debating on whether or not you have to follow law..
Care to say something about Monero or launch into more diversions ?
After all this topic is about Monero and not the "corrupt govt" isn't it ?

Want people to think you are smart here ?
Stay on topic.. rule #1

[dinofelis]

Everyone need to pay taxes.

We're getting off-topic, but the idea that a group of people cannot get organized and live together if there no compulsory robbery system like taxes, is nothing else but millennia-long indoctrination.  Taxes are not needed to make the state function, the state is there to make the taxes function.

There's in fact a whole other "public finance" system that is possible: pay for those "public services" that you need and want (including police protection).  And another principle could hold.  Every economy is ultimately resource-limited, and the ultimate resource is natural resources and land.  These resources shouldn't be "property".  They shouldn't be allowed to be part of "ownership".   Nature and land belongs to all of us.  Of course, one needs land and natural resources to do production (and to live somewhere), but instead of granting property rights, one could just grant leasing rights in a public offering.  All land and natural resources are leased to the most-offering, and the payment of this rent replaces taxes.  You cannot be a land owner.  You can only lease land.  You cannot own natural resources.  You can only lease them.  And the rent you pay is what finances public spending.  Ideally, this spending shouldn't go to any government, but directly to the people, as a form of base income.  There is no clogging up of resources or land, and the real estate market would converge to its utility price and not become a collectible and monetary resource which it is now, because of course, real estate gets lost from its owner when the land on which it stands, goes back into the public bin for a next leasing cycle. 

So, compulsory taxes are not a necessity. 

[Simonsolo]

No there is not.
And even if there was such a thing, goverments wouldn't allow it and just remove people that brought it in from exsistence  

That's exactly my point.  People aiming for "law abiding crypto" are deluded.  In as much as crypto will be law abiding, it will be entirely centralized by government (by compulsory key escrow or whatever so that it is theirs whenever they want to, like on Cyprus) and just a wasteful, clumsy form of fiat.  And all the rest will end up being outlawed in any case.

Indeed I cannot agree more because a decentralized currency is what makes crypto stand out and if it starts being controlled by govt.and hence centralized then actually the main feature of crypto will die. I think its cool to grow but within the limits.

[Spoetnik]

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

You guys are bending over backwards creating a diversion here and also by creating more topics on Dash to bump and i know the public will see straight though this shallow silly little game.

When Monero idiots are confronted with tough questions that is what they do here.. as always.

[dinofelis]

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature.  If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech.  And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better.  What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto.  What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto.  So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto.  Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law".  It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot".  Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure.  But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous.  IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot.  IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

[dinofelis]

I would like to add something.  When I say that crypto has no meaning inside the law, I do not mean that crypto's goal or sense is exclusively in "criminal affairs".   I say this because the law is a power tool of the (deep) state, and the state's nature is extortion.  As such, the law is a tool for extortion.  Now, the basis of state extortion is to extort on every economic interaction.   They haven't succeeded in extorting individual pleasure yet, but every economic interaction is subject to extortion, which is the basis principle of the (deep) state, who lives off what it takes away from its people.  The "blood" that makes economic interaction on any significant scale possible, is money.  A state who doesn't control the money flows, loses a significant part of its ability to extort.  As such, this is something that a (deep) state cannot allow, and will have to use its laws to control it.  The only money that can be legal, is money of which the (deep) state controls the flows.  So in as much as crypto can be law abiding, it must be controlled by the (deep) state.  At any moment, the state must be able to cut its flows, to confiscate it, to re-direct its flows.  But then it is meaningless as a crypto.

[Spoetnik]

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature.  If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech. And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better.  What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto.  What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto.  So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto.  Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law".  It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot".  Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure.  But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous.  IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot.  IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

See? You and all the other shill's just did it again.

You say it's successful because you say it's successful.

You know for people who THINK you are awfully smart you sure post a LOT of dumb shit here all year round.
Why not say i HOPE it will be successful or i THINK it will be successful one day ?
Because News Flash.. it's not.

And if you guys dare say the price to me one more time i am going to lose my shit  
Dino you just finished telling us all about the Greater Fools game.. exactly !
Hence price means fuck all and you KNOW IT !

And once again.. this is what pisses me off.
There is no Rise and i highly doubt there will another rise (as per topic title)
All of you have sweet fuck all here.
Even the people who support ANON coins know there will be more trouble ahead and the odds are sketchy at best.

Dino you keep trouncing around this concept that a crypto coin SHOULD be anon right ?
Well..
Think of it this way.. the entire system is contingent on ANON being a success.

security ? and adoption ?

I have addressed the security lots ..i have an old topic here called [FACT] Anon coins will never work !
And take a wild guess what i said on it ?

Custom API, so I don't think this affects anyone else. We've disabled betting in the meantime whilst we sort this out, but I really think the lesson to other operators is not to be overconfident in your code or in your setup. Everything can and will be compromised, so assume it's going to happen and put safeguards in place to handle that eventual scenario.

Hmm who's that ? And why did that guys team of shill's argue with me on my topic then ?
Oh and across the forum for two years running ?
Seems they do in fact agree with me contrary to their incessant arguing and calling me a troll etc.

But i digress..
We're talking about success ?
Ok then let's carry on

Adoption has to be the key right ? Or it's not a currency.
I HAVE already touched on my next point previously on this topic but let me see if i can REALLY hammer it home for you all.

ANON tech is mandatory ?
Ok let me play along then.. let's say it is..
Well then, is it adopted and USED yet ?
NO !
The Monero shill's here down played their DM coin involvement after it was pointed out it was looking bad.
They went on to claim it was *ONLY* used at 3% of the Dark Markets.
SO ? Get it ?
You can not claim it's a success for that reason then either because it's not used on DM's

So what is left ?

0

I also previously alluded to the fact that it seems to me that the Monero shill's are putting all their eggs in one basket claiming ANON tech is the big meal ticket.
If that is the case then i said you face a barrier.. the law !
Then i mentioned public perception and the current existing financial structure as a barrier let alone law makers and enforcers themselves.

The existing Financial machine around the world is not going to link up with and support Monero.
It's just not happening and why is because of LAW.. never mind DM reputation etc.
And never mind implementing sketchy forum code made by kids onto world wide financial systems that need to be battle hardened tested and secure ..see my above fluffypony comment

Further more they would have to essentially be the lapdog for Risto and his giant cheap bags he got.
They would have to buy his bags at some point to use the coin etc.
And then would have to follow what ever the Monero idiots say and do or TAKE IT OVER.

You think a big bank wants to have a major partnership with Risto's estimated half million doll bags he's holding ?
Think of it this way why did the Jaxx wallet dev quit Monero support ?
Because the Monero dev's randomly decided to break the system on him forcing him to rewrite all his code.
And he didn't want to do that.
In other words the coin Monero is in fact centrally controlled by Risto and his minions here.
And a bank partnership would be linked to that as the bank leaders around the globe playing second fiddle to King Risto and his paid employee fluffypony & friends and what ever whims he has at the moment (which has proven to be problematic see the Monero MEW topic)

You REALLY want to get into this guys ?
You REALLY want to parade around chanting Monero success ?
Fine.. then eat up the FUD hard.  
You deserve it because you are playing dumb (or are) and selling a scheme presented in a decetful way here.

Security is presented as bullet proof contrary to fluffypony''s earlier comment.
Even though the simple fact is if it was exploited the entire system would fall apart at once.
Once one transaction is exposed every transaction ever made would be..
Every DM user all at once would be vulnerable in 1 hack incident.
But..
They present this coin as bullet proof and make sure to shill on hard 24/7 crying FUD to any criticism.
A post like this by toknormal for example will of course get trolled by them rather than addressing the concerns or admitting problems etc..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg17896089#msg17896089

..almost done  

Monero shills are trying to paint a deceitful picture.
They are doing so because it's in their financial interest.
Which is why King Risto bragged on Poloniex about making another forum game that needed donated user funds which was never accounted for and how he laughed at me because he claimed he made thousands on the previous one.
It's why they have a gambling site.. to turn a business profit.
It's why the shill's deem Monero a success not stop harping that Monero's price is good.
Their true motivations are not altruistic and honest ..they are greedy and deceitful.
Honest people behave honestly.. it's really that simple.

Like analogies ?
A firearm is used as such as the inventor intended.. Monero is not.

One last point..
In order for a currency to be validated by the worlds major 1st world govt's it has to be bail-out-able.
Yeah i just made up that word
Would the govt of the USA bail out a Monero system in a recession like that have and will again in the future with FIAT ?
No fucking chance.. so it would mean they won't let it slide into the existing financial structure.
Even if they WANTED to support Monero they can not.. because it was made by design to evade AML law.
Which would mean they have to allow terrorism financing and money laundering etc just to bend the rules for Monero.. not happening.

[dinofelis]

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature.  If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech. And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better.  What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto.  What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto.  So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto.  Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law".  It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot".  Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure.  But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous.  IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot.  IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

See? You and all the other shill's just did it again.

You say it's successful because you say it's successful.

You are visibly logically impaired.  I don't say that it is successful.  I say that if ever a crypto is to be successful, it has to be outside the law, and in order to be successful outside the law, certain aspects like anonymity are needed.   Logically, this doesn't mean that crypto is successful or that monero is successful.  It only implies that if crypto doesn't include anon tech, it cannot be successful.

(it can rise in price, but it cannot be successful as a crypto: it has to become a form of fiat in that case).

Dino you just finished telling us all about the Greater Fools game.. exactly !
Hence price means fuck all and you KNOW IT !

Of course not.  The price doesn't mean anything. The price of all crypto is at least 2 orders of magnitude too high.  If not more.

Dino you keep trouncing around this concept that a crypto coin SHOULD be anon right ?
Well..
Think of it this way.. the entire system is contingent on ANON being a success.

Yes.

security ? and adoption ?

I have addressed the security lots ..i have an old topic here called [FACT] Anon coins will never work !
And take a wild guess what i said on it ?

Then crypto will not work, that's all I'm saying.  Crypto without anon is like guns that cannot shoot.

Adoption has to be the key right ? Or it's not a currency.

Of course not.  Adoption is not needed.  In principle, a crypto can work if two people use it.  Of course, adoption is nice, because it opens up the economic possibilities.  The more an economy is large, the more possibilities for economic interaction there are.  But wide adoption is optional.  If adoption implies denying the fundamentals, then adoption is not only not needed, it is even a bad idea.

ANON tech is mandatory ?
Ok let me play along then.. let's say it is..
Well then, is it adopted and USED yet ?
NO !
The Monero shill's here down played their DM coin involvement after it was pointed out it was looking bad.
They went on to claim it was *ONLY* used at 3% of the Dark Markets.
SO ? Get it ?
You can not claim it's a success for that reason then either because it's not used on DM's

The problem is that DM are only a niche, namely mostly unhealthy stuff like drugs and so.  But they are a nice test bed for the robustness of their anon systems.  The idea is to become a coin of all underground economy.  But of course not for the law abiding economy.  That would be silly.  In the law-abiding economy, you should use fiat, and nothing else.

So what is left ?

All economic interaction that wants to be free of state interference.  

I also previously alluded to the fact that it seems to me that the Monero shill's are putting all their eggs in one basket claiming ANON tech is the big meal ticket.
If that is the case then i said you face a barrier.. the law !

But if the law is the barrier, only fiat can work.  Only fiat can be in agreement with the law.  There's no reason for crypto within the law.  It is a silly idea.

The existing Financial machine around the world is not going to link up with and support Monero.

The existing financial machine around the world will only work with fiat.  Crypto will only part of that in as much as crypto has become fiat.  There will be a period where it will seem that crypto can thrive with big finance, but sooner or later, all crypto that does so will become fiat.  Exchanges will become institutionalised, wallets will be state-owned, mining will be state-owned and protocols will be state-dictated.  Give it 10 or 20 years.

And never mind implementing sketchy forum code made by kids onto world wide financial systems that need to be battle hardened tested and secure ..see my above fluffypony comment

Crypto's goal is to do without that world wide financial system.  If you want to be part of it, you should use fiat.

There's no room for non-fiatized crypto.  They will do as they did with gold.  First, they let greater-fool gamblers pump their value in it, and when it is big enough, they will simply confiscate it and fiatise it.  With the Law.

You think a big bank wants to have a major partnership with Risto's estimated half million doll bags he's holding ?
Think of it this way why did the Jaxx wallet dev quit Monero support ?
Because the Monero dev's randomly decided to break the system on him forcing him to rewrite all his code.
And he didn't want to do that.

And that's good, because that's not what crypto is for.  If you want to have a practical way of handling legally complying payments, use fiat.  It is much better at it.

In other words the coin Monero is in fact centrally controlled by Risto and his minions here.
And a bank partnership would be linked to that as the bank leaders around the globe playing second fiddle to King Risto and his paid employee fluffypony & friends and what ever whims he has at the moment (which has proven to be problematic see the Monero MEW topic)

Monero being an open source project, anybody can fork it and do with it what he/she wants.  Like with bitcoin.  Everybody can fork bitcoin.  If nobody does, that is that nobody really wants to.  In fact, what happens to monero doesn't matter, does it.  You only use it to sell goods, obtain it, and then to buy other goods with it.   The day that you don't like monero any more, you can use an alternative to do so, no ?  The day you don't like Openoffice, you can use Libreoffice, no ?

Even though the simple fact is if it was exploited the entire system would fall apart at once.
Once one transaction is exposed every transaction ever made would be..

How is that ?  If tomorrow, I post my secret key of a monero address, all monero transactions would be deanonymised

Like analogies ?
A firearm is used as such as the inventor intended.. Monero is not.

How's that ?  First of all, most fire arms are probably not used as the inventor intended.  If I buy a gun to kill my mother in law, that's probably not the intention of the guy who designed the gun maybe 50 years ago.  Second, I would think that monero is used as intended, as a tool to transact tokens in a non-transparent way.

In order for a currency to be validated by the worlds major 1st world govt's it has to be bail-out-able.
Yeah i just made up that word
Would the govt of the USA bail out a Monero system in a recession like that have and will again in the future with FIAT ?

This is exactly why no crypto can ever be integrated with the law, unless the government mines it, changes its protocol at will, can confiscate any possession, can reverse any transaction and will prohibit non-governmental mining (called counterfeiting).   And hence, why legal crypto is ridiculous.

No fucking chance.. so it would mean they won't let it slide into the existing financial structure.

That is exactly the (sole) aim of a cryptocurrency.  Not being able to be integrated in the existing financial structure.  All the rest is called fiat.

Which would mean they have to allow terrorism financing and money laundering etc just to bend the rules for Monero.. not happening.

If you cannot finance terrorism with it, it cannot be a crypto.  Because if a crypto stands for unstoppable payments, it must be possible to finance terrorism with it.  If for some reason, you can't, it means that that crypto is not living up to its sole goal of economical freedom.

[Spoetnik]

@Dino
My Monero commentary here for ages was not all directed at YOU !
It was to the shill's and the potential buyers eating up the Monero Hoody Merch Tag-line.

We have conflicting views but a lot in common here.

I was not saying YOU were calling Monero a success but the scene full of shill's.
Scroll back and read the crap FEBO posted.
No offense Febo i think your a decent guy but i don't support your comments on Monero here.
So don't take anything i say towards you personally.

Me and Dino can split hairs here all day long but that is not the point i am driving at.
It's the message these guys are sending to the world.. a vague hazy one at best.

They won't tell you what the goal is or how they define success.
But they will say Monero *IS* a success.
Then they go on to cite the price again etc.. which is bullshit being spewed by shill's.

You all would not even be talking about law here if it was not for me hammering away on it Dino.
You realize that ?
Look around see anyone else mentioning it over & over for 2 or 3 years running ?
They don't care !

All i see is bag-holders playing dumb.
An FBI agent says he will have a look at Monero.
Then the Monero baggies brag about 3% of DM usage etc.
Uhmm ?

It's all upside and no downside with you all in crypto huh ?

I think it's fair to help the new guys showing up here that there are risks and barriers and different definitions of "Success"
The Monero baggies are a lost cause.. they are like a Pyramid Scheme / MLM victim trapped forced to sucker in more victims with bullshit.
So i am not trying to convince them of anything LOL

I am making sure the other foot they keep pulling back is in plain view.
"They" have done nothing but put their best foot forward and then pretend the other one does not even exist.

Seriously they are scammy fucking frauds bullshitting galore.
All they have done is scream LIES and call me a Troll while i try and bring up entirely fair issues.
It's childish.. and very dishonest.
Par for the course here at "TheTalk

If they can figure out how to make it work then good for them.. prove me wrong etc.
I just don't see how it will.

Monero is some big success story in crypto ? How the fuck do you guys figure ?
Want to gauge that success metric against reality ?
Nope you all here want to scream Troll then lie and bullshit to get guys to head over to Polo to buy coins with their Picture ID while Polo hands off your info to the Fed's.
And yeah i know..
You don't HAVE TO ..but REALITY says they will !
And it is reality i am interested in not bullshit crap from morons here.
The reality is Polo added an XMR market soon after the coin existed for some weird inexplicable reason.
It *IS* in fact backed and funded by a sketchy admitted mental case lunatic millionaire whale.
Risto has admitted to paying the devs and donating and buying vast amounts of XMR.
I would not be surprised to see he had over a million in XMR.

They DID say they were leaving roughly 2 years ago but instead stayed continuing to advertise here while saying they never ever have.. even though they took donated money to make a forum game here that was deemed by King Risto as a "Powerful Adoption Asset"

Dino you are leap frogging over damn near 3 years of retarded bullshit and shenanigans these assholes have pulled here.
AND !
The fact their coin is centrally controlled and used mostly on govt controlled exchanges.

You are all skipping over any and all negative points and PRETENDING they don't exist.
Which is dishonest and makes you all look like a predator preying on the noobs that show up here.

And i am not havin' it !

You can line up to run your mouth and neg me all you want.
You can spam and cry FUD / Troll and chant "LIES" or cause diversions.. go hard !
But the truth is right there under all your noses.

I posted here because of the topic title people.
Is Monero now or will be in the future a success ?
I did not post here to say what i think a crypto coin SHOULD be.. i posted to highlight the actual real reality of the situation.

PS:
@Dino
..i traded toys with other kids when i was younger.
Does that make them a currency ?
What we all collectively deem a currency to be is what it is.
What we all collectively think success is.. is what it is.
Get it ?