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Author Topic: BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 573269 times)
superresistant
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September 20, 2016, 10:45:40 AM
 #441

Your laughter is unfounded and means little to the facts that I have presented. Why focus on the FAIRLY MINED part of doge and LTC are you saying BTC was more FAIRLY mined than those?
This simply is not a fair way to initially distribute new tokens. It is simply a case of giving the already rich more than everyone else.
There has to be a fairer solution.

You don't get it.
BYTEBALL is not about reducing the gap between the rich and the poor.
Those tokens are virtual, this is not money.
This is not about helping people.
Fairness should not even been discussed.

You cannot expect and guarantee that those tokens will have any value at all. So using all your time and energy into imagining a fair distribution utopia will always result in a huge failure.

BYTEBALL is only an experiment between grown up responsible adult passionate about tech. No one is forced to participate. No money is even asked.
We have no guarantee that it will work, no guarantee that it will be used, no guarantee that it will be worth anything.

For all those reasons, a token distribution that doesn't ask for any money, that is clear and simple to understand is a great distribution.

People that promise fairness in this world are all scammers.

Here's my bag so you don't ask : BTC, iexec, byteball and pepecash
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September 20, 2016, 11:07:06 AM
 #442

Are there any dutch mates here? IMO most of the dutch don't have problems reading english (or maybe german), so is a translation to dutch really needed?

I have to find the time to do the dutch translation, but yeah dutchies read English quite well.
Also I was thinking: @ Tonych, maybe you should keep let's say 5% to 10% of the total amount, it will give you a big incentive to keep working on the project, fund development, attract new devs etc.
Imo, it is good that founders/ developers have a big stake in their company.

Byteball token is not a stake in a company. It is a fee token. Topic starter can always issue a custom token on his network to fund his development, which will better suite crowd funding needs.
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September 20, 2016, 11:08:35 AM
 #443

Free token, great technology? Not seeing why people are attacking anyone about this it's pretty much a win-win for everyone involved? Please don't attack the dev he will bring us some very positive things and already has done.  Cry

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September 20, 2016, 11:47:06 AM
 #444

Are there any dutch mates here? IMO most of the dutch don't have problems reading english (or maybe german), so is a translation to dutch really needed?

I have to find the time to do the dutch translation, but yeah dutchies read English quite well.
Also I was thinking: @ Tonych, maybe you should keep let's say 5% to 10% of the total amount, it will give you a big incentive to keep working on the project, fund development, attract new devs etc.
Imo, it is good that founders/ developers have a big stake in their company.

Byteball token is not a stake in a company. It is a fee token. Topic starter can always issue a custom token on his network to fund his development, which will better suite crowd funding needs.


The amount is a fixed amount, no additional tokens will be released, nor custom tokens to my knowledge.
The OP should take more than 1%, it will be good for the project.

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September 20, 2016, 03:15:03 PM
 #445

Also I was thinking: @ Tonych, maybe you should keep let's say 5% to 10% of the total amount, it will give you a big incentive to keep working on the project, fund development, attract new devs etc.
Imo, it is good that founders/ developers have a big stake in their company.

Byteball token is not a stake in a company. It is a fee token. Topic starter can always issue a custom token on his network to fund his development, which will better suite crowd funding needs.

The amount is a fixed amount, no additional tokens will be released, nor custom tokens to my knowledge.
The OP should take more than 1%, it will be good for the project.

I fear that having 5-10% of the money supply controlled by a single person would make other stakeholders feel uncomfortable, which directly contradicts my stated purpose of getting as many people on board as possible.  And I am not completely altruistic here, I do want the worth of my stake to be high, and I want to achieve that by making a wide distribution (which subsequently increases the byte's value through network effects) rather than by taking a larger chunk of the pie.

Simplicity is beauty
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September 20, 2016, 03:24:57 PM
 #446

Are there any dutch mates here? IMO most of the dutch don't have problems reading english (or maybe german), so is a translation to dutch really needed?

I have to find the time to do the dutch translation, but yeah dutchies read English quite well.
Also I was thinking: @ Tonych, maybe you should keep let's say 5% to 10% of the total amount, it will give you a big incentive to keep working on the project, fund development, attract new devs etc.
Imo, it is good that founders/ developers have a big stake in their company.

Byteball token is not a stake in a company. It is a fee token. Topic starter can always issue a custom token on his network to fund his development, which will better suite crowd funding needs.


The amount is a fixed amount, no additional tokens will be released, nor custom tokens to my knowledge.
The OP should take more than 1%, it will be good for the project.

Oh yes, everybody will be able to issue custom tokens on byteball platform. Great feature for crowd funding.
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September 20, 2016, 03:46:10 PM
 #447

Idk why exactly I'm so excited about this coin...but I am! Cheesy
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September 21, 2016, 06:55:47 AM
 #448

Oh yes, everybody will be able to issue custom tokens on byteball platform. Great feature for crowd funding.

Ok, cool.



I fear that having 5-10% of the money supply controlled by a single person would make other stakeholders feel uncomfortable, which directly contradicts my stated purpose of getting as many people on board as possible.  And I am not completely altruistic here, I do want the worth of my stake to be high, and I want to achieve that by making a wide distribution (which subsequently increases the byte's value through network effects) rather than by taking a larger chunk of the pie.


In big cooperations (Apple, Microsoft, Google whatever) the founders have huge stakes in the company, way more than 5%-10%, this gives them incentive to work hard.
Imo the public don't care, they want development not to stagnate, which could happen if the price drops drasticly.
Also Byteball is 'free', who cares how much you keep, as long as the project keeps being developped.

I am giving imput, I like your project, but hey in the end it's your call.

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September 21, 2016, 07:49:21 AM
 #449

Your laughter is unfounded and means little to the facts that I have presented. Why focus on the FAIRLY MINED part of doge and LTC are you saying BTC was more FAIRLY mined than those?
This simply is not a fair way to initially distribute new tokens. It is simply a case of giving the already rich more than everyone else.
There has to be a fairer solution.

You don't get it.
BYTEBALL is not about reducing the gap between the rich and the poor.
Those tokens are virtual, this is not money.
This is not about helping people.
Fairness should not even been discussed.

You cannot expect and guarantee that those tokens will have any value at all. So using all your time and energy into imagining a fair distribution utopia will always result in a huge failure.

BYTEBALL is only an experiment between grown up responsible adult passionate about tech. No one is forced to participate. No money is even asked.
We have no guarantee that it will work, no guarantee that it will be used, no guarantee that it will be worth anything.

For all those reasons, a token distribution that doesn't ask for any money, that is clear and simple to understand is a great distribution.

People that promise fairness in this world are all scammers.

/CLAP, well said!

Good job tonych! Great distribution method and the tech sounds very exciting. Very impressed with every aspect of the project so far.

Lol @ the ridiculous criticisms of the distribution method. I hold a lot of alts, many of which I can't convert to btc and back because the liquidity/vol is too low and it would cost me a fortune (some newer coins don't even have enough orders in the book to cover my holdings). I'm not complaining though, the method is completely fair and I will cobble together what BTC I can closer to the time.

I wouldn't worry too much about how broad the distribution is anyway, if the tech does what it says it won't matter that much. IOTA only had 300 ICO buyers, it hasn't stopped it shooting up to top 10 market cap before it has even hit any exchanges.

The only concern I see is that exchanges keep coins due to their customers. Is there any way you could refuse claims from wallets that belong to exchanges? Most of those addresses are known and the size of the claims would make them pretty obvious too. Perhaps a 1000btc claim cap per address or some such? Obviously exchanges could split the money and move it around to get away with it, but I doubt many would jump through a lot of hoops for an unknown, new alt. Have you been in contact with any of the big ones to ask if they will give bytes straight to customers?

I will be keeping an eye on this one.





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September 21, 2016, 08:05:31 AM
 #450

How anonymous will this be in theory?

Is IOTA untraceable really?
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September 21, 2016, 09:42:15 AM
 #451

The only concern I see is that exchanges keep coins due to their customers. Is there any way you could refuse claims from wallets that belong to exchanges? Most of those addresses are known and the size of the claims would make them pretty obvious too. Perhaps a 1000btc claim cap per address or some such? Obviously exchanges could split the money and move it around to get away with it, but I doubt many would jump through a lot of hoops for an unknown, new alt. Have you been in contact with any of the big ones to ask if they will give bytes straight to customers?

I was thinking the same, exchanges will be the large stakeholders of Byteball.

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September 21, 2016, 09:51:32 AM
 #452

From OP:
"..then the number of bytes and blackbytes you receive on the launch date will be proportional to the BTC amount on your linked address"

So the rich get richer!?

TBH I´m very active in crypto but i own just about 0.xxx BTC. And some whales with e.g 200 BTC get the coins for nothing. Strange logic! IPO/ICO s are much fairer than this. As a small fish i have less money to invest .... and to lose. If a whale want to invest 50 BTC in a project he can win a lot ... or lose a lot.  Know what i mean?


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September 21, 2016, 09:58:56 AM
 #453

How anonymous will this be in theory?

Is IOTA untraceable really?

AFAIK it's pretty untraceable because the transaction data is off-chain, only held by payer and payee. The disadvantage of this is that you have some more work doing regular backups if you want to keep this data. An alternative to backups is to link multiple devices, e.g. mobile phone and desktop pc, then their wallets hold all the private data simultaneously.

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September 21, 2016, 10:07:03 AM
 #454

If a whale want to invest 50 BTC in a project he can win a lot ... or lose a lot.  Know what i mean?

This could be seen as another ICO scam because the 50 BTC would go to the developer alone. This is to be avoided, the reputation of the whole project is at stake here.
IMO the developer of Byteball has done well with this kind of distribution!

Keep in mind that this is only the initial distribution. Sure there will be a lot of trading of Bytes and Blackbytes OTC or on the exchanges afterward and my educated guess is that you can still fetch some cheap coins then!  Smiley

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September 21, 2016, 12:29:29 PM
 #455

So this is just an IOTA clone with a different distribution method?
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September 21, 2016, 12:33:37 PM
 #456

So this is just an IOTA clone with a different distribution method?

No, it's an original source code with a different consensus algorithm.

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September 21, 2016, 04:40:56 PM
 #457

So this is just an IOTA clone with a different distribution method?

No, it's an original source code with a different consensus algorithm.

Not at all - compare the white papers and the source code.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg16163839#msg16163839

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September 21, 2016, 04:56:14 PM
 #458

So this is just an IOTA clone with a different distribution method?

No, it's an original source code with a different consensus algorithm.

Not at all - compare the white papers and the source code.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg16163839#msg16163839


gotcha! thanks for the clarification.
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September 21, 2016, 05:29:52 PM
 #459

How anonymous will this be in theory?

Is IOTA untraceable really?

This thread is about Byteball, not IOTA.  If your question is about Byteball, we have both traceable currency bytes and untraceable blackbytes, see CryptKeeper's answer above about blackbytes.

Simplicity is beauty
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September 21, 2016, 06:36:00 PM
 #460

About participation of exchanges in the distribution.

It is not the first time that people raise valid concerns about exchanges using their customers funds to get a large chunk of bytes, for themselves.  A few people offer to cap the amount on one bitcoin address but immediately admit that it is easily subverted by splitting the balance across multiple addresses, in other words, it doesn't work.

I see two solutions that work, both are something that I cannot do alone, and the community help is of utmost importance.

1.  Dilute the share of exchanges by bringing more people on board.  Fortunately, all individuals combined still hold much more bitcoins than the exchanges, hence this is achievable.

2.  Approach the biggest exchanges and ask them to give bytes straight to customers, as Jabbawa suggested above.  I'm going to do it but this will only work if there are enough customers who ask them about that.  If you are a customer, you can help.

(To avoid derailing this conversation into endless discussions about inequality, this post is about exchanges using funds that do not belong to them, not about whales using the BTC that they own)

Simplicity is beauty
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