Is taxation theft?

[BADecker]

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need."
-Acts 2:44-45

There is a difference between taxation and donation.    

Yeah, if it was donation it would be written they might do it or it would be good to do it.
Whereas here it's an order and a description of what should be done.
First time I agree with Jesus though.

If God doesn't come down and order it directly, who has the right to order someone else to do something? Nobody, because all people are created equal - in spirit. So, if they give you an order, make them pay if you fill their order.

For example, the judge in court -just a man- orders you -just a man- to pay a fine for a traffic violation. Pay it, and send him a bill to cover the cost of the fine, and your time and expenses in court. After all, a judge - just a man - doesn't sit on the bench without getting paid for it. So, why should you - just a man - come to court without getting paid for it?

[Immakillya]

For me imposing tax is needed to run an entire country. Who will pay for salary of government officials and staffs? Government can't do that by themselves only. The citizens is the life of a country. Without tax, theres no schools, hospitals and any government establishments that gives us benefits in return. But sometimes, government is just too abusive. They impose to much tax.

[BADecker]

For me imposing tax is needed to run an entire country. Who will pay for salary of government officials and staffs? Government can't do that by themselves only. The citizens is the life of a country. Without tax, theres no schools, hospitals and any government establishments that gives us benefits in return. But sometimes, government is just too abusive. They impose to much tax.

Government people offer a benefit. If I don't want a government benefit, why should I pay for it?

If I want road usage, let me pay for it through buying it, not through taxation. Or let me build my own roads.

If I don't want road usage, and if I can get through life without it, why should I pay for it?

Buy what you get from government through standard trade. Don't be forced into paying through taxation.

[Sithara007]

For me imposing tax is needed to run an entire country. Who will pay for salary of government officials and staffs? Government can't do that by themselves only. The citizens is the life of a country. Without tax, theres no schools, hospitals and any government establishments that gives us benefits in return. But sometimes, government is just too abusive. They impose to much tax.

In my country, the salaried people have to pay their taxes. And even after that, we have to pay a toll tax to use some of the roads, and there is a tuition fee in schools and colleges. The government-run hospitals are also not 100% free. So the question is, why should I pay my taxes?

[BADecker]

For me imposing tax is needed to run an entire country. Who will pay for salary of government officials and staffs? Government can't do that by themselves only. The citizens is the life of a country. Without tax, theres no schools, hospitals and any government establishments that gives us benefits in return. But sometimes, government is just too abusive. They impose to much tax.

In my country, the salaried people have to pay their taxes. And even after that, we have to pay a toll tax to use some of the roads, and there is a tuition fee in schools and colleges. The government-run hospitals are also not 100% free. So the question is, why should I pay my taxes?

The one, slight advantage is that things might get set up that you will need in the future. For example. You buy health insurance for a potential event that you might need a hospital and doctor sometime. If you never need these, it seems like wasted money to you. But it gets the hospital and doctor set up ahead of time, so that they are ready if you ever DO need them.

Or, think of Social Security in America. Everybody who works on a job pays SS tax. Most people don't know that a simple letter to your employer can stop the SS deductions out of the paycheck. There are many people living off their Social Security, people who would have nothing, because they weren't smart enough to save up for old age.

[RealBitcoin]

Government people offer a benefit. If I don't want a government benefit, why should I pay for it?

It's for the greater good. You know wars, debt, incompetent education system, public roads that fall apart, and health services with corrupt doctors.

What is your problem with that? Are you are racist?

If I want road usage, let me pay for it through buying it, not through taxation. Or let me build my own roads.

Yes but if government roads would not fall apart, then who would give job to road workers? Because it's clearly a productive economic activity to build a shitty road and then fix it.

I mean earthquakes are definitely the most economically productive thing in the universe. Because it gives job to alot of architects, building workers, engineers.


Also if you have a car, you should break the window of it, and then spend money to repair it, because that gives jobs to the car mechanic, so your are helping the economy.


This is the wonderful keynesian economic theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

[BADecker]

Government people offer a benefit. If I don't want a government benefit, why should I pay for it?

It's for the greater good. You know wars, debt, incompetent education system, public roads that fall apart, and health services with corrupt doctors.

What is your problem with that? Are you are racist?

If I want road usage, let me pay for it through buying it, not through taxation. Or let me build my own roads.

Yes but if government roads would not fall apart, then who would give job to road workers? Because it's clearly a productive economic activity to build a shitty road and then fix it.

I mean earthquakes are definitely the most economically productive thing in the universe. Because it gives job to alot of architects, building workers, engineers.


Also if you have a car, you should break the window of it, and then spend money to repair it, because that gives jobs to the car mechanic, so your are helping the economy.


This is the wonderful keynesian economic theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Thank you.   

[Sithara007]

Or, think of Social Security in America. Everybody who works on a job pays SS tax. Most people don't know that a simple letter to your employer can stop the SS deductions out of the paycheck. There are many people living off their Social Security, people who would have nothing, because they weren't smart enough to save up for old age.

IMO, the saving part must be left to the individuals. I don't want to pay a certain amount to the government, so that I get a monthly pension once I retire. I would rather invest that amount in some mutual fund or equity, and use it to take care of my expenses once I retire.

[BADecker]

Or, think of Social Security in America. Everybody who works on a job pays SS tax. Most people don't know that a simple letter to your employer can stop the SS deductions out of the paycheck. There are many people living off their Social Security, people who would have nothing, because they weren't smart enough to save up for old age.

IMO, the saving part must be left to the individuals. I don't want to pay a certain amount to the government, so that I get a monthly pension once I retire. I would rather invest that amount in some mutual fund or equity, and use it to take care of my expenses once I retire.

You are saving, then? You have some bitcoins and gold and silver and investments in land?

Many people don't know how to do this kind of investing. Sure, they are empowering a misguided government by their SS tax payments. But at least they might have a little something for old age.

How do you know for a fact that you investments won't fail?

I agree with you that people should not be depending on Government. But they go to Government schools, and are trained out of even common sense wisdom therein.

[dreamer81]

Of course it's not theft. you are getting something in return for the taxes you pay.

[valta4065]

For me imposing tax is needed to run an entire country. Who will pay for salary of government officials and staffs? Government can't do that by themselves only. The citizens is the life of a country. Without tax, theres no schools, hospitals and any government establishments that gives us benefits in return. But sometimes, government is just too abusive. They impose to much tax.

In my country, the salaried people have to pay their taxes. And even after that, we have to pay a toll tax to use some of the roads, and there is a tuition fee in schools and colleges. The government-run hospitals are also not 100% free. So the question is, why should I pay my taxes?

For private companies then.
If your government doesn't pay for community needs, it's simply exploiting you.
It's not new sadly.
It's not the taxes that are to blame, but the greed of your politicians and the inaction of the people.

[BADecker]

Of course it's not theft. you are getting something in return for the taxes you pay.

But it isn't ever fair. Let's say your taxation helps provide 10 government benefits. But you only have need of one of them.

Somebody else only pays enough taxes to cover 5 benefits. But he uses 10.

Not fair.

Let people buy their benefits. If they don't like the price, don't buy them. There are plenty of charitable, non-government organizations that give benefits to the poor. In some cases Government won't even let them do this.

Taxation is completely wrong.

[noel2123]

As we can see, taxpayers paid for their own, but they did not know where their tax goes? We cannot assure that our local government uses the tax wisely? Also we do not know where are tax goes, is it for our own needs? Is it goes to the streets and house? Is it for developing our own country?

[bitcoinboy12]

As we can see, taxpayers paid for their own, but they did not know where their tax goes? We cannot assure that our local government uses the tax wisely? Also we do not know where are tax goes, is it for our own needs? Is it goes to the streets and house? Is it for developing our own country?

Yep. And this is pretty much why I believe that taxation on its own. Its process and its concept is not 'theft' on its own. The government who uses the funds for their personal gain are the ones who are the thief who steals from the people.

[criptix]

Government people offer a benefit. If I don't want a government benefit, why should I pay for it?

It's for the greater good. You know wars, debt, incompetent education system, public roads that fall apart, and health services with corrupt doctors.

What is your problem with that? Are you are racist?

That only happens if you live in the 3rd world, the usa or communist nations like russia.

Reason why you dont see scadinavians crying about wars bad roads and a shitty universal healthcare system.

If I want road usage, let me pay for it through buying it, not through taxation. Or let me build my own roads.

Yes but if government roads would not fall apart, then who would give job to road workers? Because it's clearly a productive economic activity to build a shitty road and then fix it.

I mean earthquakes are definitely the most economically productive thing in the universe. Because it gives job to alot of architects, building workers, engineers.


Also if you have a car, you should break the window of it, and then spend money to repair it, because that gives jobs to the car mechanic, so your are helping the economy.


This is the wonderful keynesian economic theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Decide what your problem is:

1. Corruption

Or

2. Material attrition

Because you are mistaking one for the other...

[RealBitcoin]

That only happens if you live in the 3rd world, the usa or communist nations like russia.

Reason why you dont see scadinavians crying about wars bad roads and a shitty universal healthcare system.

Oh but they have a lot of refugees, and if they keep coming in without contributing to the system, the system will quickly collapse.

Decide what your problem is:

1. Corruption

Or

2. Material attrition

Because you are mistaking one for the other...

My problem is that economics teaches people that government spending increases the economy.

Which means that technically employing a person to dig a hole at morning and fill it up at afternoon, is a potential job.

Now imagine if every single person would be a holedigger, all employed by the government.

What would the economy look like?

[BADecker]

Decide what your problem is:

1. Corruption

Or

2. Material attrition

Because you are mistaking one for the other...

My problem is that economics teaches people that government spending increases the economy.

Which means that technically employing a person to dig a hole at morning and fill it up at afternoon, is a potential job.

Now imagine if every single person would be a holedigger, all employed by the government.

What would the economy look like?

Well, we are almost to the point of everyone working for Government right now... except if they are on welfare.

[bitcoinboy12]

Decide what your problem is:

1. Corruption

Or

2. Material attrition

Because you are mistaking one for the other...

My problem is that economics teaches people that government spending increases the economy.

Which means that technically employing a person to dig a hole at morning and fill it up at afternoon, is a potential job.

Now imagine if every single person would be a holedigger, all employed by the government.

What would the economy look like?

Well, we are almost to the point of everyone working for Government right now... except if they are on welfare.

The people should really participate and do their job as well. Everyone should speak up and share their thoughts and opinion on things. This is one way to regulate those government acts that are obviously deemed useless and abusive.

[Hydrogen]

Taxation where collected revenues are spent effectively to produce tangible benefits equal to the taxes collected are not theft.

Wasteful, destructive, spending on the part of a state which destroys wealth, productivity and innovation (currency might be said to represent these things) however could be considered worse than theft.

[BADecker]

Decide what your problem is:

1. Corruption

Or

2. Material attrition

Because you are mistaking one for the other...

My problem is that economics teaches people that government spending increases the economy.

Which means that technically employing a person to dig a hole at morning and fill it up at afternoon, is a potential job.

Now imagine if every single person would be a holedigger, all employed by the government.

What would the economy look like?

Well, we are almost to the point of everyone working for Government right now... except if they are on welfare.

The people should really participate and do their job as well. Everyone should speak up and share their thoughts and opinion on things. This is one way to regulate those government acts that are obviously deemed useless and abusive.

Right. Start by filing a W-4 with your employer that has "n-a" on all the lines, but "EXEMPT" on line 7. Then sign it "non-assumpsit, your signature." And sue your employer if he doesn't stop withholding.

Since the W-2 is hearsay, and nobody will step up and swear in court that the amount on your W-2 is your gross income (unless you have signed some document saying that it is), nobody can prove what your gross income is.

Stand as a man/woman, without representation. Attorneys argue what the law is all the time. How does anyone think that you will ever understand it. You have an out there.

In court, if a person stands unrepresented, but rather, present, and requires an injured man or woman come forth to accuse him of the injury, there is no case without real injury. Standard law. But you have to stand not represented to use it.

Standard law is the way out regarding the IRS. Start by studying Karl Lentz, and then putting it all into action.

http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html = Angela Stark's Talkshoe.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw = TrustInAllLaw snippets of Karl's audios.

http://www.broadmind.org/ = Karl's main page.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/ = Karl's United Kingdom page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da = Craig Lynch's snippets page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D = Ten great Youtube videos, might be the best introduction to Karl.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc = Karl's Talkshoe site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iua56K4Mysk = Karl Lentz - The Brian Bonar Incident - YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdHLHWS4gPE = Lentz-Sense - don't be a More~On - YouTube.


Other Info

http://voidjudgments.com/ = The Secret is most judgments are Void on their face and not merely voidable.

http://educationcenter2000.com/Trinsey-v-Paglario.htm = Trinsey v. Pagliaro - Attorneys cannot "speak" in common law trials if the one who is bringing the suit orders it. Holding from Trinsey v. Pagliaro: "An attorney for the plaintiff cannot admit evidence into the court. He is either an attorney or a witness."