Is taxation theft?

[BADecker]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

Yes i agree, and i would say that you are totally right about that. Because if governments did not exist, it would be every city for them self, and that would turn in all out war. Maybe even to some kind of monarchy, where there would be one man to lead, and in that case its same. There is no possible way of living without country, i mean there would not be safe way.

Where do you draw the line? If governments exist, then it is every government for itself. If the whole world is under one government, then it is a war between the government of man and the government of God.

Rather, let every man be a government for himself and his family, the way God intended it in the first place.

No taxes, except in the family. Only free trade between families.

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[Lieldoryn]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

Yes i agree, and i would say that you are totally right about that. Because if governments did not exist, it would be every city for them self, and that would turn in all out war. Maybe even to some kind of monarchy, where there would be one man to lead, and in that case its same. There is no possible way of living without country, i mean there would not be safe way.

Where do you draw the line? If governments exist, then it is every government for itself. If the whole world is under one government, then it is a war between the government of man and the government of God.

Rather, let every man be a government for himself and his family, the way God intended it in the first place.

No taxes, except in the family. Only free trade between families.

It is a utopia. State should be. They share not just the territory they shared by peoples with different mentality and customs. Imagine if a Muslim from Syria or Afghanistan will come to America as a home. Or refugees to settle in Europe on the rights of the owners. No border is needed. But the state cannot exist without taxes.It turns out that taxes are also needed, and your God is lying.

[Sithara007]

Police only "bully" citizens because of drug prohibition.  Before that police was seen similarly to firemen...helpful folks that are keeping a place safe.  Once drug prohibition started, the monetary reward for corruption and opportunity to profile people came about.  Around that same time, people started feeling less safe in the presence of the police.  Look at the police in Portugal, where are drugs are criminalized.  They're cool.

Cops are cool everywhere in the European Union, and not just in Portugal (perhaps with the exception of certain eastern European nations such as Poland and Lithuania). The difference in the United States is due to the cultural variations.

[Eternu]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

Yes i agree, and i would say that you are totally right about that. Because if governments did not exist, it would be every city for them self, and that would turn in all out war. Maybe even to some kind of monarchy, where there would be one man to lead, and in that case its same. There is no possible way of living without country, i mean there would not be safe way.

Where do you draw the line? If governments exist, then it is every government for itself. If the whole world is under one government, then it is a war between the government of man and the government of God.

Rather, let every man be a government for himself and his family, the way God intended it in the first place.

No taxes, except in the family. Only free trade between families.

Yes BADecker that sounds really nice, but there is more problems in that than you want to admit, and you know it. If it was every family for it self, don't you think that will cause all kind of problems, people would fight a lot, even more than they fight now. There will always be people who would rather take from others than to work them self for something. And maybe it would be better if there was one government on the world, but even that would not mean that its Man against the God, that can not happen. Because even when communist forbid religion, there were those people who still believed and worship God. And in your case it would be every man for him/her self, and that would be end of use, and you know it. People need to stay together and build thinks together, but there is need for leader too, and even one man can be considered government so ....

[BADecker]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

Yes i agree, and i would say that you are totally right about that. Because if governments did not exist, it would be every city for them self, and that would turn in all out war. Maybe even to some kind of monarchy, where there would be one man to lead, and in that case its same. There is no possible way of living without country, i mean there would not be safe way.

Where do you draw the line? If governments exist, then it is every government for itself. If the whole world is under one government, then it is a war between the government of man and the government of God.

Rather, let every man be a government for himself and his family, the way God intended it in the first place.

No taxes, except in the family. Only free trade between families.

Yes BADecker that sounds really nice, but there is more problems in that than you want to admit, and you know it. If it was every family for it self, don't you think that will cause all kind of problems, people would fight a lot, even more than they fight now. There will always be people who would rather take from others than to work them self for something. And maybe it would be better if there was one government on the world, but even that would not mean that its Man against the God, that can not happen. Because even when communist forbid religion, there were those people who still believed and worship God. And in your case it would be every man for him/her self, and that would be end of use, and you know it. People need to stay together and build thinks together, but there is need for leader too, and even one man can be considered government so ....

When the thief comes to steal from a family, he might be too strong for the family.

When this happens, several families get together, voluntarily, to form a very loose government wherein they protect each other from the thief.

When the thief sees this, he knows that he can't beat the joint families, so he gets together with other thieves in a loose government of thieves to fight the family government.

Some smarter thieves shrewdly infiltrate the government of families to leach off them.


The only way for the families to win is to maintain awareness of the family as the government. If people in America realized that they can invoke the jury in every circumstance - the jury of 12 of your fellow people - there would be a family operation of 12 family members to settle every dispute.

People are too dumb for this. The attorneys and judges see to it that they remain dumb. They see to it that people think that the word "judge" means that the judge is king in court. In the case of an American court, the judge is really a magistrate - a referee who simply sees that the court has order. The jury is the judge.

[craked5]

Police only "bully" citizens because of drug prohibition.  Before that police was seen similarly to firemen...helpful folks that are keeping a place safe.  Once drug prohibition started, the monetary reward for corruption and opportunity to profile people came about.  Around that same time, people started feeling less safe in the presence of the police.  Look at the police in Portugal, where are drugs are criminalized.  They're cool.

Cops are cool everywhere in the European Union, and not just in Portugal (perhaps with the exception of certain eastern European nations such as Poland and Lithuania). The difference in the United States is due to the cultural variations.

Cops aren't cool. Not at all.
They're just not completely crazy assholes shooting everyone contrary to US Cops
But that doesn't make them cool.
That makes them... Let's just say that it makes us not wanting to kill all cops that's all.

[mainpmf]

I have nothing against your opinion of government or the system.  What kind of slavery do you speak of? 

The job market, the new slavery of our 21st century.

Prices can be regulated possibly, but the more common approach is to leave the price as it is and "subsidize" the cost for the buyer.  So prices will remain high, but a portion of our taxes would go towards the payment.  They can manipulate it either way really.

The point was that you said to give an example where private companies offer better service than public, and I gave an example of pathetic public service.  You wouldn't get that with a private company because you can simply choose not to do business with them ever again.  Eventually if everyone shared that sentiment, they'd have to improve their service or eventually go out of business.

Completely wrong that's where the problem is :/
What you're describing is in a beautiful word with fair competition...
What actually happens is that the really big corporation are at first very competitive. They provide great services and innovate a lot...
Then as time goes by they have less and less concurents and become more and more powerful. And at a point they have a monopole in their sector, then they can do whatever they want.
That's what's happening in the whole insurance and banking system for example. But the same is true in great distribution, food production etc...

I never said the health care in Canada is bad.  It's okay, but it is expensive and takes up a large chunk of our taxes.  But I know of wealthier folks that need serious medical attention fly over to the states to get their procedures done.

I'm not sure where you got the France vs. USA healthcare dollars from, but let's assume it's accurate.  You realize that the USA has a reactive healthcare system right?  And that the USA has by far the most unhealthy population in the world, which would require more reactive health care??
The reason it has a high dollar amount is because of the # of customers (unhealthy people requiring medical attention).  Europe in general is much more health conscious and eats more whole foods/less processed foods.  Finland for example has chef's in schools that teach kids about cooking and eating healthy.  I grew up with a cafeteria that sold burgers, pizza and fries, a McDonalds next to our high school and a vending machine that only sold pop/soda.  Why would we be as healthy as France?  Unless you take your health into your own hands, educate yourself on diet and have routine physical activity, the default is to eat garbage and get obese...and look at who has the most obese population in the world.

So you mean Americans are 2.5 times more sick than Europeans?
No. That's just too much.
The explanation I'm trying to make is that overwhole the healthcare system in France is more efficient than the American one... Why? Because as French health system is public, they don't have to make profit.

Let's put it simply: a public service has to provide the same thing than a private one but WITHOUT MAKING PROFIT NOR ADVERTISEMENT
Then it's simply mathematically obvious that a public service will be less expensive...

USA is the country where everything is private. Economic freedom at its best... Well look how great it is: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Awfulness.html

[Matcuda]

The topic of taxes is very relevant today, especially since every country of its citizens is beginning to strangle with taxes more and more. It seems that not only my possessions and my money do not belong to me, but even I myself do not belong to myself anymore. I certainly understand that thanks to taxes paid by citizens of any country, it is for these finances that the state itself exists, But it turns out that officials abuse this.

[BADecker]

The topic of taxes is very relevant today, especially since every country of its citizens is beginning to strangle with taxes more and more. It seems that not only my possessions and my money do not belong to me, but even I myself do not belong to myself anymore. I certainly understand that thanks to taxes paid by citizens of any country, it is for these finances that the state itself exists, But it turns out that officials abuse this.

Right!

Taxation is all about some people taking property away from other people without their permission and desire.

If someone wants to pay taxes, let him. Of course, then it is not taxes. Then it is donations.

[NJB18]

Taxation itself is not a theft. Its just a way of collecting money from the people to create a better environment.  The problem is the people handling the tax money. If they are good then we are good, if not then we're in trouble.

[BADecker]

Taxation itself is not a theft. Its just a way of collecting money from the people to create a better environment.  The problem is the people handling the tax money. If they are good then we are good, if not then we're in trouble.

Who collects the money? Why, people of course. And who do they collect it from? People who like the environment a different way than the tax collectors. Who is right?

Environment is only one little issue in taxes. Taxation is simply this... some people using their freedom to take the freedom away from other people.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? shouldn't the other people take tax money away from the tax collectors? If not, why not? They are all just people. Many of the people won't agree with either group.

[popcorn1]

It depends how you get taxed..

Like the people taxing our NHS for bitcoin the hackers..
I have one message to you ..
25 YEARS IN JAIL ..And you deserve it..

Plus you will destroy BITCOIN..It will get banned 100%..

Paper money if stealing you need to take it in person so much harder to steal..
BITCOIN which is basically money can be stolen without even moving out your home and never to be traced or found again..

I can imagine they send the money all around the world so by the time they find out they be long dead..

It's been passed to dave oh now it's been passed to peter and it will go on and on .
But i bet some coder done it so it passes through billions of people before it finally gets to them but sped up..

So i bet BITCOIN will get banned < if carries on ..THE NHS ..You attack the sick..You are sick..

Cyber attacks < sit in your room and steal ..
LAZY FUCKERS ..No climbing up buildings or nothing..So chances of getting caught very slim..

BUT if you do bye bye 25 years..You attacked our NHS you will pay with 25 years in jail..

We got crazy islams  we got crazy nerds ..

Could be crazy Islamic nerds .. Everyone is a suspect before you Islams get on your high flying horse..  I said could be ..

But BITCOIN is in danger of getting banned ..Meaning 5 years in jail for promoting terrorism ..
No but that's what they could say..

[freeyourmind]

I have nothing against your opinion of government or the system.  What kind of slavery do you speak of? 

The job market, the new slavery of our 21st century.

Prices can be regulated possibly, but the more common approach is to leave the price as it is and "subsidize" the cost for the buyer.  So prices will remain high, but a portion of our taxes would go towards the payment.  They can manipulate it either way really.

The point was that you said to give an example where private companies offer better service than public, and I gave an example of pathetic public service.  You wouldn't get that with a private company because you can simply choose not to do business with them ever again.  Eventually if everyone shared that sentiment, they'd have to improve their service or eventually go out of business.

Completely wrong that's where the problem is :/
What you're describing is in a beautiful word with fair competition...
What actually happens is that the really big corporation are at first very competitive. They provide great services and innovate a lot...
Then as time goes by they have less and less concurents and become more and more powerful. And at a point they have a monopole in their sector, then they can do whatever they want.
That's what's happening in the whole insurance and banking system for example. But the same is true in great distribution, food production etc...

I never said the health care in Canada is bad.  It's okay, but it is expensive and takes up a large chunk of our taxes.  But I know of wealthier folks that need serious medical attention fly over to the states to get their procedures done.

I'm not sure where you got the France vs. USA healthcare dollars from, but let's assume it's accurate.  You realize that the USA has a reactive healthcare system right?  And that the USA has by far the most unhealthy population in the world, which would require more reactive health care??
The reason it has a high dollar amount is because of the # of customers (unhealthy people requiring medical attention).  Europe in general is much more health conscious and eats more whole foods/less processed foods.  Finland for example has chef's in schools that teach kids about cooking and eating healthy.  I grew up with a cafeteria that sold burgers, pizza and fries, a McDonalds next to our high school and a vending machine that only sold pop/soda.  Why would we be as healthy as France?  Unless you take your health into your own hands, educate yourself on diet and have routine physical activity, the default is to eat garbage and get obese...and look at who has the most obese population in the world.

So you mean Americans are 2.5 times more sick than Europeans?
No. That's just too much.
The explanation I'm trying to make is that overwhole the healthcare system in France is more efficient than the American one... Why? Because as French health system is public, they don't have to make profit.

Let's put it simply: a public service has to provide the same thing than a private one but WITHOUT MAKING PROFIT NOR ADVERTISEMENT
Then it's simply mathematically obvious that a public service will be less expensive...

USA is the country where everything is private. Economic freedom at its best... Well look how great it is: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Awfulness.html

I somewhat agree with the majority of jobs and especially corporate jobs.  But no one is forcing anyone to work those jobs.  I get when people that have very little economic resources feel compelled to continue to work low paying unsatisfying jobs, but at the end of the day, it can be difficult but they can build skills that are in demand and make more money, or do something they enjoy.  But without skill, those types of shitty low paying jobs are the only option, and there is a huge supply of unskilled workers.

I agree competition is not always fair, but you do understand that the barriers to entry are government regulations right?  You mentioned insurance and banks.  Highly regulated industries...that are not in a "free market" environment.  I can add telecommunications to the mix.  Kind of like an oligopoly.  But in Canada, all three of those industries are highly regulated, and we don't allow foreign competition.  This is a result of corporate lobbying influencing policy in the government.  There's nothing wrong with a corporation wanting to benefit from policy change...but it should be up to a benevolent government (in our particular system in present day, not that I think it's a good system) to ignore special interests and act for the interests of the taxpayers and citizens as a whole.  But they often put corporate interests ahead of consumers.  We do not allow foreign bank or telecom competition.  So again we are forced to deal with an oligopoly or not have that particular service at all, but the oligopoly is made possible with government intervention.  Our government sets the competitive landscape, even for private companies.

I would actually say that the USA and France have a health discrepancy over 2.5 times, but that's just an unsubstantiated subjective opinion.  And I've been to both countries multiple times.  There are parts of the states that are very healthy, but as a country, no bueno.

Some quick wikipedia info:
USA is #1 in depression in the world - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_depression
USA is #19 in obesity in the world - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Body_Mass_Index_(BMI)
USA is #6 in cancer rate in the world (France is #2 lol) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_cancer_rate

Anyways, this doesn't really prove anything, but on factors that affect health, they rank among the worst in the world per capita.  So the health care costs are going to be a function of having a relatively unhealthy population, having a standard approach to death with palliative care (expensive way to drug yourself into ecstacy as you drift out of existence) and efficiency of a dollar in your health care system.  Healthy population = less patients.

With respect to healthcare costs of public vs. private - it just depends on how the business is implemented and executed.  I think either can be made to be efficient with a high level of service if that's the goal.  Here, government jobs represent union negotiated raises (not on merit), 100% job security unless you assault, harass or murder someone, and when you do anything to fuck with their income, they threaten to go on strike and provide no service at all.  You can't tell me that these are servants of the public.  They serve themselves, and #2 priority is public service.  Our police cars say "to serve and protect" yet many people get an uneasy feeling when the person dedicated to "serving and protecting" you is around.

USA is mostly private, but with a corrupt (and large) government that hooks up special interests (corporations) which usually harm the consumer aka tax payer.   We have one highway that is kept better than all others in Toronto.  It's a private toll highway, and you need to pay each time you use it, on top of all your taxes for public roads.  That private road is kept better than other highways because it is competing for business, which is cars.  The more cars it can take, the more money it makes.  So it's in that companies best interest to keep the customers coming, by offering nice smooth roads, and less traffic.  Our public roads get pot holes and there is a long delay before anything is fixed, because they don't give a fuck.  And at the end of the day, I can almost guarantee that the construction costs (by distance) will be less than our public roads, because they will better negotiate with contractors when you're not playing around with guaranteed tax revenue, but your own money.

[notyours]

Taxation itself is not a theft. Its just a way of collecting money from the people to create a better environment.  The problem is the people handling the tax money. If they are good then we are good, if not then we're in trouble.

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

[BADecker]

Taxation itself is not a theft. Its just a way of collecting money from the people to create a better environment.  The problem is the people handling the tax money. If they are good then we are good, if not then we're in trouble.

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

If a person is a citizen of a country, he is like a member of a family. He is such by agreement, because he can always leave. So, if the country says to pay taxes, he should follow his agreement, and pay taxes.

In America, the U.S. foundational documents - the Constitution and the Amendments - say no income tax. All the laws in America hang on these foundational documents. Any laws that say to pay income taxes are not part of the laws of the U.S.

IRS taxes are not part of the laws. The thing that happens in America that makes people liable for the IRS tax is twofold:
1. People voluntarily allow the IRS to tax them (making it not entirely a tax);
2. The IRS tricks people into losing court battles.

Craig Lynch has posted free snippets of Karl Lentz's talks at https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da and https://www.youtube.com/user/765736. Search through these snippets for those that have IRS or other words pertaining to the IRS in them. Learn how to legally, morally, ethically, and rightly stop paying income taxes.

This Karl Lentz stuff pertains, with slight changes, to Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Belize, Guyana (S.A.), and even India and several smaller countries around India, as well as to the USA.

[joebrook]

Before anyone complains about taxation being thievery, that person should tell us who pays the Policeman,Soldiers,Firemen and how come they had hospitals to go to and who pays for the roads they drive on. Its a give and take example, You pay taxes and the Government provide these.

[JofryTheKing]

Before anyone complains about taxation being thievery, that person should tell us who pays the Policeman,Soldiers,Firemen and how come they had hospitals to go to and who pays for the roads they drive on. Its a give and take example, You pay taxes and the Government provide these.

In reality you are right, but it is necessary to have common sense to select taxes from citizens, and not to tax everything and always. But the financing of government structures is people's concern.

[BADecker]

Before anyone complains about taxation being thievery, that person should tell us who pays the Policeman,Soldiers,Firemen and how come they had hospitals to go to and who pays for the roads they drive on. Its a give and take example, You pay taxes and the Government provide these.

Forget Government. Do you want fire protection? How about police protection? How about soldier protection and hospitals? Forget taxes. Buy what you want. That way you don't have to buy a bunch of BS that you don't want. And, there will be competition among the service offerers, so the prices will come down. And you will easily be able to take the service providers to court if they don't follow through.

[craked5]

Before anyone complains about taxation being thievery, that person should tell us who pays the Policeman,Soldiers,Firemen and how come they had hospitals to go to and who pays for the roads they drive on. Its a give and take example, You pay taxes and the Government provide these.

Forget Government. Do you want fire protection? How about police protection? How about soldier protection and hospitals? Forget taxes. Buy what you want. That way you don't have to buy a bunch of BS that you don't want. And, there will be competition among the service offerers, so the prices will come down. And you will easily be able to take the service providers to court if they don't follow through.

Suuuuuuuuuuuure
Let's everything become private! Why not?
I mean what's private in USA and is not in civilized countries? Healthcare.
And how is USA doing in healthcare?

healthcare: 37. Just better than Slovenia, you're doing great yeah!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000

Oh look at that! All the 10 best healthcare system in the world are public ones funded by taxation!!!
Could there be a link?

Nah must be just because USA isn't lucky.

[HAARP]

It is legal theft to me. The legal theft of the powers so called governments all around the world.