Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[windjc]

I was pleased to see that we actually had some accumulation around $580. First time buyers have been out in weeks it seems. And it felt a little like fresh fiat.

I do believe there is a crap ton of money sitting on the sidelines. One obvious proof of this is that while margin longs still seem to be around 30 million on Finex, the rate is going down, down, down, meaning that money is coming in and sitting on the sidelines.

When will the match be lit? That is the next question. I do think we could make a run at $710 if the right conditions hit.

***Also, I have it on good sources that large miners have been swamped by institutional investors wanting to buy large buld bitcoin off exchange for months. If this is true, then sooner or later, supply is going to dry up. And once it does, we will be off on the bubble train once again.

I have bought mostly back in after taking a small profit. We could still see $550 before we see $608. But if we see $608 first, things could get exciting.

do you mean 608 or 680?

607 seems to be the technical point of resistance for another leg up to at least $630. I'm just saying that if we start to break upward resistances, we could make a run at $710 best case scenario. $680ish is also another level of resistance. But if we get there again, I dont think it will hold.

[windjc]

Most of these things listed above are NOT pyramid schemes, unless they are causing value to float to the top without any reciprocating value being transferred below.  The only way that value gets transferred lower down the pyramid is to find more suckers below.  None of these listed items are pyramid schemes, unless they are designed as such.  Bitcoin is also NOT a pyramid scheme b/c there are tangible assets, including an infrastructure and a network and continued investments in side businesses.... NO need to explain further at the moment b/c these pyramid scheme/ponzi arguments are totally attempting to simplify bitcoin into something that it is NOT and playing upon ignorance.

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Why have you become such a fucking asshole? Huh? You used to be a nice guy. Now you are just an asshole.

I was you that made the decision to sell your BTC and go all in on LTC. Thats on you. Not anyone else. So, if you're going to be angry, be angry at yourself.

Why are you even on here at all? Just to make others miserable?

where did you get that from? I am not being an ass whole even to those who deserve it, and I've never blamed anyone for any decision I've made even when it turned out to the worst case scenario....


the other thing is what I wrote above is all true, people hate the truth, I wont be a pumper for any investment anymore, I will point out the truth (at least what I think is the truth) even if most people wont like it, I will be honest with my self and with others even if it hurts.

Bullshit. You sold btc and bought ltc because you thought it would make you ALOT of money. Not because LTC is superior or isnt "pumped" or whatever. There was no moral or social reason you did that. You did it for profit.

So stop criticizing people for cheerleading btc for profit. You are in a trading and speculation thread for Christ sakes.

[mmitech]

where did you get that from? I am not being an ass whole even to those who deserve it

this made me luled.

Round 10 is it?!

I didnt see that  nice  catch   

[JayJuanGee]

Most of these things listed above are NOT pyramid schemes, unless they are causing value to float to the top without any reciprocating value being transferred below.  The only way that value gets transferred lower down the pyramid is to find more suckers below.  None of these listed items are pyramid schemes, unless they are designed as such.  Bitcoin is also NOT a pyramid scheme b/c there are tangible assets, including an infrastructure and a network and continued investments in side businesses.... NO need to explain further at the moment b/c these pyramid scheme/ponzi arguments are totally attempting to simplify bitcoin into something that it is NOT and playing upon ignorance.

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Just because there is a decent potential that Bitcoin could collapse at one day in the future does NOT cause bitcoin to be a pyramid scheme or early adopters to be suckers. 

There are a lot of potential scenarios for a bitcoin collapse and some of those scenarios involve a near immediate collapse, other scenarios involve a long and drawn out collapse and other scenarios involve a collapse that is hundreds of years in the future.

In other words, your giving great weight to a potential and in your implied "inevitable collapse" of bitcoin does NOT provide sufficient specifics in order to  denigrate it's current status to some sort of "scheme."

[mmitech]

Most of these things listed above are NOT pyramid schemes, unless they are causing value to float to the top without any reciprocating value being transferred below.  The only way that value gets transferred lower down the pyramid is to find more suckers below.  None of these listed items are pyramid schemes, unless they are designed as such.  Bitcoin is also NOT a pyramid scheme b/c there are tangible assets, including an infrastructure and a network and continued investments in side businesses.... NO need to explain further at the moment b/c these pyramid scheme/ponzi arguments are totally attempting to simplify bitcoin into something that it is NOT and playing upon ignorance.

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Why have you become such a fucking asshole? Huh? You used to be a nice guy. Now you are just an asshole.

I was you that made the decision to sell your BTC and go all in on LTC. Thats on you. Not anyone else. So, if you're going to be angry, be angry at yourself.

Why are you even on here at all? Just to make others miserable?

where did you get that from? I am not being an ass whole even to those who deserve it, and I've never blamed anyone for any decision I've made even when it turned out to the worst case scenario....


the other thing is what I wrote above is all true, people hate the truth, I wont be a pumper for any investment anymore, I will point out the truth (at least what I think is the truth) even if most people wont like it, I will be honest with my self and with others even if it hurts.

Bullshit. You sold btc and bought ltc because you thought it would make you ALOT of money. Not because LTC is superior or isnt "pumped" or whatever. There was no moral or social reason you did that. You did it for profit.

So stop criticizing people for cheerleading btc for profit. You are in a trading and speculation thread for Christ sakes.

of course I did it for profit, why the fuck would I trade ? to lose money ? I am all about profit, I always say I trade only for profit and literately don't give a fuck which coin is.... so you must be getting it all wrong

[Richy_T]

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Hey, Mmitech Jr: Get off your dad's account or you'll get in trouble.

[molecular]

I was pleased to see that we actually had some accumulation around $580. First time buyers have been out in weeks it seems. And it felt a little like fresh fiat.

I do believe there is a crap ton of money sitting on the sidelines. One obvious proof of this is that while margin longs still seem to be around 30 million on Finex, the rate is going down, down, down, meaning that money is coming in and sitting on the sidelines.

When will the match be lit? That is the next question. I do think we could make a run at $710 if the right conditions hit.

***Also, I have it on good sources that large miners have been swamped by institutional investors wanting to buy large buld bitcoin off exchange for months. If this is true, then sooner or later, supply is going to dry up. And once it does, we will be off on the bubble train once again.

I have bought mostly back in after taking a small profit. We could still see $550 before we see $608. But if we see $608 first, things could get exciting.

do you mean 608 or 680?

607 seems to be the technical point of resistance for another leg up to at least $630. I'm just saying that if we start to break upward resistances, we could make a run at $710 best case scenario. $680ish is also another level of resistance. But if we get there again, I dont think it will hold.

thanks for clearing that up.

[Sandia]

I do believe there is a crap ton of money sitting on the sidelines. One obvious proof of this is that while margin longs still seem to be around 30 million on Finex, the rate is going down, down, down, meaning that money is coming in and sitting on the sidelines.

This is a point many people are missing: there is $4M in USD swaps available today.  That money is (largely) not going to be used for leveraged longs during a sustained bubble/surge, the swap providers are going to jump into btc when the price starts a good uptrend.  Sure, they may have to wait for the loan term to expire, but it will go to buying up coins.

It is entirely possible (likely?) that total active longs will decrease during a bubble due to unavailability of USD swaps.

[mmitech]

Most of these things listed above are NOT pyramid schemes, unless they are causing value to float to the top without any reciprocating value being transferred below.  The only way that value gets transferred lower down the pyramid is to find more suckers below.  None of these listed items are pyramid schemes, unless they are designed as such.  Bitcoin is also NOT a pyramid scheme b/c there are tangible assets, including an infrastructure and a network and continued investments in side businesses.... NO need to explain further at the moment b/c these pyramid scheme/ponzi arguments are totally attempting to simplify bitcoin into something that it is NOT and playing upon ignorance.

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Just because there is a decent potential that Bitcoin could collapse at one day in the future does NOT cause bitcoin to be a pyramid scheme or early adopters to be suckers. 

There are a lot of potential scenarios for a bitcoin collapse and some of those scenarios involve a near immediate collapse, other scenarios involve a long and drawn out collapse and other scenarios involve a collapse that is hundreds of years in the future.

In other words, your giving great weight to a potential and in your implied "inevitable collapse" of bitcoin does NOT provide sufficient specifics in order to  denigrate it's current status to some sort of "scheme."

I will argue that it wont be hundred of years, I dont know even if it will last 20 years before it collapses, there is many theories why it would happen, we've talked about it many times, the thing is I think the world in 10-20 years is not going to be the same as we see it today, I dont think the fiat systems will hold for long as well, but I am trying to figure out what the outcome will be...

the wars that are happening now will have a huge impact on the picture of our lives in the next 20 years (if we will be safe to live that long), and I just dont see Bitcoin in the picture.

[windjc]

I do believe there is a crap ton of money sitting on the sidelines. One obvious proof of this is that while margin longs still seem to be around 30 million on Finex, the rate is going down, down, down, meaning that money is coming in and sitting on the sidelines.

This is a point many people are missing: there is $4M in USD swaps available today.  That money is (largely) not going to be used for leveraged longs during a sustained bubble/surge, the swap providers are going to jump into btc when the price starts a good uptrend.  Sure, they may have to wait for the loan term to expire, but it will go to buying up coins.

It is entirely possible (likely?) that total active longs will decrease during a bubble due to unavailability of USD swaps.

Exactly. And thats $4M we can see.

Although I also think there is investor money that comes in for high swap rates. So many swaps will buy btc forcing the supply down and the rate up. Then other money will come in to take advantage of that high rate as well as more money coming in to chase the bubble.

But money has been coming into Finex for the last month or so, pretty steady. And I think we are seeing a new uptick based on the rates going down almost 50% the last month.

Money is real cheap there now <40% annual rate. We haven't seen >120% in a LONG time. Which means supply is and has been high for a while.

[mmitech]

you know a sucker like you and me who made Satoshis and the winklevoss and ...... coins more valuable, the last ones in the pyramid will have 0 vale when Bitcoin collapse (it will collapse at one point in the future).

and it is a pyramid, because at the start people created the coin of nothing, well, except the few cents consumed by the processor on power, they hoarded and pumped the value so more suckers jumped in through time. I am one of them BTW.

well yea, it is genius that it solved a mathematical problem....same like tampon did solve a problem if you ask a woman.

Hey, Mmitech Jr: Get off your dad's account or you'll get in trouble.

I will make sure he wont find about it    no seriously, I might be a little harsh lately, but I wont take all the credits, people are getting more nervous and intolerant, the only time people are cheering here (bulls and bears) is when a bubble happens. so we need one ASAP. 

they like it when you say what they want to hear, even if you draw some nonsense lines on a chart ( as I was watching lately), but the moment you say anything they don't like ( and most of the time it is true) you become the asshole imbecile and the low life that no one want to hear.

[magicmexican]

12h-1d-3d all look kinda bullish, but short term and 1w looks meh.


However i have a feeling that market will just give up on going 570< at some point, unless there will be some kind of fuel to it

[Sandia]

I wonder if providing USD swaps might be a gateway drug for buying btc.

[windjc]

12h-1d-3d all look kinda bullish, but short term and 1w looks meh.


However i have a feeling that market will just give up on going 570< at some point, unless there will be some kind of fuel to it

I am 95% most of the 3500 BTC between $590-$600 is fake on Stamp. Someone is trying to cap the price over the weekend.

If we don't fall back to $580 before China makes one more big move up, $600 is going to fall on Stamp quicker than it looks, imho.

For right now, it feels like we are coiling, with a move upward feeling more and more likely.

[windjc]

I wonder if providing USD swaps might be a gateway drug for buying btc.

Yes. I can speak from personal experience.

I imagine 95%+ of swap providers own btc too, but it is definitely a gateway for buying MORE btc.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Richy_T]

I will make sure he wont find about it   no seriously, I might be a little harsh lately, but I wont take all the credits, people are getting more nervous and intolerant, the only time people are cheering here (bulls and bears) is when a bubble happens. so we need one ASAP.  

they like it when you say what they want to hear, even if you draw some nonsense lines on a chart ( as I was watching lately), but the moment you say anything they don't like ( and most of the time it is true) you become the asshole imbecile and the low life that no one want to hear.

To be fair, the main issue I have is with your pyramid comment. The defining aspect of a pyramid scheme is that to continue to succeed, it must continue to grow indefinitely. Once growth stops, the whole thing implodes. Bitcoin has growth, as do many things in their early stages but the test is whether it can continue to be successful once adoption tails off. It's my belief that there is no reason this should not be the case for Bitcoin. So not a pyramid, more like a house.

Pyramid:



House:



I assumed you would know this stuff. Hence the Jr comment.

[Schickeria]

Most of these things listed above are NOT pyramid schemes, unless they are causing value to float to the top without any reciprocating value being transferred below.  The only way that value gets transferred lower down the pyramid is to find more suckers below.  None of these listed items are pyramid schemes, unless they are designed as such.  Bitcoin is also NOT a pyramid scheme b/c there are tangible assets, including an infrastructure and a network and continued investments in side businesses.... NO need to explain further at the moment b/c these pyramid scheme/ponzi arguments are totally attempting to simplify bitcoin into something that it is NOT and playing upon ignorance.

What you are writing is correct but you are arguing in a sophistry manner, bitcoin is no pyramid scheme, regarding the typical fraudulent definitions. It's a semantic shift by mmitech, talking of pyramid scheme but meaning a pyramidical wealth distribution. Reading you, I get the impression that you are not silly (even as I would not agree with a lot of your quoted text) and you understood the regarding context. That the wealth of bitcoin is distributed as a pyramid - I think this is undoubtably. But as I said earlier, that is capitalism - not only bitcoin.

[Heisenberg85]

4-5k BTC to be dumped on the market within next 48h

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/08/08/announcement-on-planned-exodus-withdrawal/

[mmitech]

I will make sure he wont find about it   no seriously, I might be a little harsh lately, but I wont take all the credits, people are getting more nervous and intolerant, the only time people are cheering here (bulls and bears) is when a bubble happens. so we need one ASAP.  

they like it when you say what they want to hear, even if you draw some nonsense lines on a chart ( as I was watching lately), but the moment you say anything they don't like ( and most of the time it is true) you become the asshole imbecile and the low life that no one want to hear.

To be fair, the main issue I have is with your pyramid comment. The defining aspect of a pyramid scheme is that to continue to succeed, it must continue to grow indefinitely. Once growth stops, the whole thing implodes. Bitcoin has growth, as do many things in their early stages but the test is whether it can continue to be successful once adoption tails off. It's my belief that there is no reason this should not be the case for Bitcoin. So not a pyramid, more like a house.

Pyramid:

http://www.k6-geometric-shapes.com/image-files/pyramid-base-triangle.jpg

House:

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_aix_53/com.ibm.aix.graPHIGS/doc/phigsund/figures/AFM24r02.jpg

I assumed you would know this stuff. Hence the Jr comment.

assuming that most of us didn't join the community ( join as invested in), do you think that Bitcoin would be successful and would get all the hype in the media ? for Bitcoin to succeed as a value transfer mechanism or a currency it has to do allot of things. for example: there is a theory about competing and efficiency, while I know and you know that Bitcoin can do somethings better than the old fashion banking system and the Fiat principals there is also a part of convincing people to adopt this technology, if you you wont make the difference so huge so people are convinced to jump in, then Bitcoin is simply in trouble, because the adoption rate will start descending and the usability of Bitcoin will also follow.