Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[adamstgBit]

the liquidation of my assets for BTC has begun

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=73.0

That link only leads to the auctions board in the marketplace. I had a quick look and found this thread auctioning a $ 1,025,637.26 BTC account.

$ 1,025,637.26 BTC account for sale.

That isn't you is it?  

What are you selling, in which threads, and how many BTC are your total assets likely to fetch?

edit

I found this thread where you are selling what looks like a physical Bitcoin to me. You won't sell it for less than one Bitcoin will you, as it looks like it's worth that already?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283727

i sell physical Bitcoins

[1714506742]

1714506742

[1714506742]

1714506742

[1714506742]

1714506742

[conspirosphere.tk]

on the contrary: it's a free market of monies, kinda crypto-Forex.
IMHO if BTC will be kept clean of spam/crap/b/s/sabotage/treason it will remain the king/most accepted. Alternatively a competitor with those attributes will emerge. End of story.

So if I download blockchain A (and the Bitcoin blockchain), and you download blockchain B (and the Bitcoin blockchain), what do we do if, for some weird reason, we want to do business?

whatever you want. either you agree to accept the others' coin, or you recur to a third party exchange. Is "do whatever the fuck you want" bad?

It's not great. Certainly doesn't make for frictionless commerce.
Pretty much the opposite of what Bitcoin (and money in general) is about.

[AlexGR]

Worrying about blockchain bloat when the whole damn thing can fit on a microSD chip is either stupid or disingenuous.

It can fit because it has a 1mb limit in place, and not, say, 20mb. It would require just 50 blocks to fill 1 gb if someone made a script to do just that.

You cannot have a multibillion dollar currency that has such an issue looming over its head.

If you have a currency where someone can throw 1 btc in fees to fill a 20mb block, then with 144btc spent you get around 3gb of bloat per day.

In a month you will need 4320 BTCs to fill 86.4gb, and in a year you'll have exceeded 1 TB for a cost of 51840 BTCs (21mn USD at current prices, much less in terms of USD if the government has hacked them or confiscated them).

Even if one is paying the fees, and is not basing his approach on waiting to confirm a lot of low fee or no fee transactions, the price is way too low for destroying a multibillion dollar currency / making it unusable / rendering it centralized.

If I were threatened by BTC and had the resources, I'd go for it. It's pretty cheap compared to what you get in return (a bloated system and the perception that "ah crap, crypto is done, it can't scale because it's way too bloated). What more could I say?

What we *really* need is to fit way more transactions in the same amount of space. And we also need a much higher fee structure, implemented ...yesterday if possible.

[Ultrafinery]

on the contrary: it's a free market of monies, kinda crypto-Forex.
IMHO if BTC will be kept clean of spam/crap/b/s/sabotage/treason it will remain the king/most accepted. Alternatively a competitor with those attributes will emerge. End of story.

So if I download blockchain A (and the Bitcoin blockchain), and you download blockchain B (and the Bitcoin blockchain), what do we do if, for some weird reason, we want to do business?

whatever you want. either you agree to accept the others' coin, or you recur to a third party exchange. Is "do whatever the fuck you want" bad?

It's not great. Certainly doesn't make for frictionless commerce.
Pretty much the opposite of what Bitcoin (and money in general) is about.

I think you're missing the context. That being AlexGR's claim that altcoins are a solution to Bitcoin's blockchain bloat. My point was that they're only making Bitcoin less relevant (people use alts, so they don't use Bitcoin as much).
I'm not against alts at all.

[jbreher]

And downloading terabytes of blockchain bloat will?

Bitcoin is a protocol and while it is true that scaling issues exist, they are being worked on to find solutions. But nobody says we all have to use just one blockchain for storing everything, and doing so with zero cost.

Having a second blockchain does absolutely nothing to reduce bloat. In order to use a federated blockchain in a trustless manner requires the user to download the entire bitcoin blockchain plus the entire federated blockchain. This can be no smaller than the bitcoin blockchain would be if all transactions were done in bitcoin. What's the point?

Multiple blockchains do not reduce bloat on aggregate, they multiply it. However, you only download the blockchains you want. You are not forced to use 1000 blockchains if there are 1000 altcoins. You only download and use those that you like.

So you're saying... don't use bitcoin then? Great! Scale bitcoin by not using it!

[Graphics]

Guys do you think that the price of BTC will go to $500 or more before March next year?

[600watt]

i sell physical Bitcoins

u lost faith?  

[adaseb]

Looks like a little pullback before advance.

Trade opportunity coming up.

[adamstgBit]

the liquidation of my assets for BTC has begun

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=73.0

That link only leads to the auctions board in the marketplace. I had a quick look and found this thread auctioning a $ 1,025,637.26 BTC account.

$ 1,025,637.26 BTC account for sale.

That isn't you is it?  

What are you selling, in which threads, and how many BTC are your total assets likely to fetch?

edit

I found this thread where you are selling what looks like a physical Bitcoin to me. You won't sell it for less than one Bitcoin will you, as it looks like it's worth that already?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283727

i sell physical Bitcoins

u lost faith?  

there not funded....

selling fancy wallets

[Ultrafinery]

...
So you're saying... don't use bitcoin then? Great! Scale bitcoin by not using it!

Really what it sounds like. Must be missing something.

...
So if I download blockchain A (and the Bitcoin blockchain), and you download blockchain B (and the Bitcoin blockchain), what do we do if, for some weird reason, we want to do business?

Let's say I accept DASH but you only have LTC or DOGE. At that point there are several solutions:

1) I use an exchange account for deposits of coins that I do not regularly receive, so you do nothing but send your LTC or DOGE. I then convert those to DASH which I accept and withdraw them.
2) You first convert your LTC or DOGE to DASH which I accept, in some exchange, and send them to me.
3) We use a payment processor

In short, no different from you accepting only rubles, and me having only pesos. This sounds like the worst of both worlds, no?
Also, in all the options you have offered, how does Bitcoin factor in?
...

[conspirosphere.tk]

My point was that they're only making Bitcoin less relevant (people use alts, so they don't use Bitcoin as much).
I'm not against alts at all.

Neither me. They can be complementary especially if there is an huge crypto success worldwide. And still a single one could remain a sort of gold standard (if it's not sabotaged).

[brg444]

And downloading terabytes of blockchain bloat will?

Bitcoin is a protocol and while it is true that scaling issues exist, they are being worked on to find solutions. But nobody says we all have to use just one blockchain for storing everything, and doing so with zero cost.

Having a second blockchain does absolutely nothing to reduce bloat. In order to use a federated blockchain in a trustless manner requires the user to download the entire bitcoin blockchain plus the entire federated blockchain. This can be no smaller than the bitcoin blockchain would be if all transactions were done in bitcoin. What's the point?

Multiple blockchains do not reduce bloat on aggregate, they multiply it. However, you only download the blockchains you want. You are not forced to use 1000 blockchains if there are 1000 altcoins. You only download and use those that you like.

So you're saying... don't use bitcoin then? Great! Scale bitcoin by not using it!

Finally someone get it  

HODL Bitcoin spend fiat !

[adamstgBit]

the liquidation of my assets for BTC has begun

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=73.0

That link only leads to the auctions board in the marketplace. I had a quick look and found this thread auctioning a $ 1,025,637.26 BTC account.

$ 1,025,637.26 BTC account for sale.

That isn't you is it?  

What are you selling, in which threads, and how many BTC are your total assets likely to fetch?

edit

I found this thread where you are selling what looks like a physical Bitcoin to me. You won't sell it for less than one Bitcoin will you, as it looks like it's worth that already?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283727

i sell physical Bitcoins

u lost faith?  

there not funded....

selling fancy wallets

i hope bidder don't think i'm selling 1BTC + the coin starting at 0.001BTC  

these wallets are VERY secure

[billyjoeallen]

Worrying about blockchain bloat when the whole damn thing can fit on a microSD chip is either stupid or disingenuous.

It can fit because it has a 1mb limit in place, and not, say, 20mb. It would require just 50 blocks to fill 1 gb if someone made a script to do just that.

You cannot have a multibillion dollar currency that has such an issue looming over its head.

If you have a currency where someone can throw 1 btc in fees to fill a 20mb block, then with 144btc spent you get around 3gb of bloat per day.

In a month you will need 4320 BTCs to fill 86.4gb, and in a year you'll have exceeded 1 TB for a cost of 51840 BTCs (21mn USD at current prices, much less in terms of USD if the government has hacked them or confiscated them).

Even if one is paying the fees, and is not basing his approach on waiting to confirm a lot of low fee or no fee transactions, the price is way too low for destroying a multibillion dollar currency / making it unusable / rendering it centralized.

If I were threatened by BTC and had the resources, I'd go for it. It's pretty cheap compared to what you get in return (a bloated system and the perception that "ah crap, crypto is done, it can't scale because it's way too bloated). What more could I say?

What we *really* need is to fit way more transactions in the same amount of space. And we also need a much higher fee structure, implemented ...yesterday if possible.

Are you trolling? That's a dumb argument.
 1) a 20MB block would not automatically mean all new blocks would be 20MB. We have a 1 MB limit now and most blocks are less than half that.
2) a large block runs the risk of getting orphaned because it propagates slower than a smaller block.  Miners know this and have an incentive to keep them small regardless of what the upper limit is.

You want a higher fee structure yesterday? Apparently you were sick the day they taught economics in economics class.  You don't gain business by raising prices, especially in a highly competitive environment. That's how you LOSE business.

[conspirosphere.tk]

So you're saying... don't use bitcoin then? Great! Scale bitcoin by not using it!

don't use it for crap, like ads/spam, dice with 0,0000000001 tx, and so. Do you trade physical gold daily? Me neither.

[billyjoeallen]

So you're saying... don't use bitcoin then? Great! Scale bitcoin by not using it!

don't use it for crap, like ads/spam, dice with 0,0000000001 tx, and so. Do you trade physical gold daily? Me neither.

It's not a peer-to-peer electronic gold system. It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system. There may come a time when microtransactions will need to be off chain, but that time will never come if we don't get a critical mass of users first.

[AlexGR]

In short, no different from you accepting only rubles, and me having only pesos. This sounds like the worst of both worlds, no?

Eh, no. Because the issue is pretty much solvable.

Also, in all the options you have offered, how does Bitcoin factor in?

First, most cryptocurrencies are based on the bitcoin protocol. So bitcoin is still in use, as a protocol, even if it isn't as a currency for a particular transaction.

If I use LTC, I still use the bitcoin protocol. The elements are pretty much the same.

Second, in some of the options, like having an exchange account, you can either use BTC, or not. For example you can accept 100 different altcoins and have it set to be converted to BTC on arrival and then make 1 fat BTC withdrawal in the end of the day (if you are a merchant). So you might have gotten paid for 300 coffees with DOGE, these money go to the payment processor or exchange, and in the end of the day you get, say, 2 BTC.

How would that work?

Code-wise it shouldn't be that difficult. It might be a lot of work but in essence it is a decentralized asset exchange, specifically for cryptocurrencies/altcoins, merging functionalities of different wallets in order to transact in multiple blockchains.

[conspirosphere.tk]

It's not a peer-to-peer electronic gold system. It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system. There may come a time when microtransactions will need to be off chain, but that time will never come if we don't get a critical mass of users first.

Gold is money. Everything else is a scam.

[billyjoeallen]

It's not a peer-to-peer electronic gold system. It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system. There may come a time when microtransactions will need to be off chain, but that time will never come if we don't get a critical mass of users first.

Gold is money. Everything else is a scam.

That's an assertion, not an argument. Money is simply the most marketable (liquid) commodity. In many languages the word "silver" is a synonym for money. It's the thing that eliminates the need for a double coincidence of wants. Using altcoins is basically the same as going back to barter. That's taking money backwards, not forwards.

[600watt]

It's not a peer-to-peer electronic gold system. It's by design a peer-to-peer electronic CASH system. There may come a time when microtransactions will need to be off chain, but that time will never come if we don't get a critical mass of users first.

Gold is money. Everything else is a scam.

the bug is strong with this one.