Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[becoin]

Everyone knows we're heading for the moon as soon as we climb.

What's the deal with just sitting around and waiting? Get us up dammit

Margin trading means you can sell bitcoins without having a single bitcoin. Banks with unlimited access to freshly printed dollars by Fed printing press can sell bitcoins and manipulate price as they wish. It is the same price manipulation of gold and silver we see for many years. This is why derivatives books of leading banks are of gigantic proportions. This is the way it will be until corrupt fiat system collapses. And collapse will be spectacular.

Is there a single exchange that offers margin that would ever be legit enough for a bank to have a play? I don't know of one. All the fancy ones in the US with proper licences don't offer it.

There re many bitcoin exchanges that offer margin tarding. Not sure what do you mean by 'legit enough'?

there is not enough liquidity in any of these exchanges for banks to start margin trading.

try and open 5 million$ worth of shorts, you'll drive up the cost of borrowing to astronomical levels.

Why do you think borrowing 11000 bitcoins will drive up the cost of borrowing to astronomical levels?

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[DaRude]

And just like that 3000CNY is behind us

[inca]

And just like that 3000CNY is behind us

Hold on there grasshopper. When we take 471 we can say that 3000 is behind us

[ImI]

And just like that 3000CNY is behind us

Hold on there grasshopper. When we take 471 we can say that 3000 is behind us

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exactly

[podyx]

To the moon gentlemen

[adamstgBit]

Everyone knows we're heading for the moon as soon as we climb.

What's the deal with just sitting around and waiting? Get us up dammit

Margin trading means you can sell bitcoins without having a single bitcoin. Banks with unlimited access to freshly printed dollars by Fed printing press can sell bitcoins and manipulate price as they wish. It is the same price manipulation of gold and silver we see for many years. This is why derivatives books of leading banks are of gigantic proportions. This is the way it will be until corrupt fiat system collapses. And collapse will be spectacular.

Is there a single exchange that offers margin that would ever be legit enough for a bank to have a play? I don't know of one. All the fancy ones in the US with proper licences don't offer it.

There re many bitcoin exchanges that offer margin tarding. Not sure what do you mean by 'legit enough'?

there is not enough liquidity in any of these exchanges for banks to start margin trading.

try and open 5 million$ worth of shorts, you'll drive up the cost of borrowing to astronomical levels.

Why do you think borrowing 11000 bitcoins will drive up the cost of borrowing to astronomical levels?

looks like i was wrong.
there seems to be pretty damn good liquidity for margins on bitfinex.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

We've had a fair few pumps to over 465 USD that have crashed back down to below 450 USD. Lets stay calm, I'm not getting excited yet.

[JimboToronto]

We've had a fair few pumps to over 465 USD that have crashed back down to below 450 USD. Lets stay calm, I'm not getting excited yet.

A fair few? This year all I see are once in early January and once on April27.

That said, I agree it's too early to get excited yet.
_______

Meanwhile the Bitcoinaverage CAD spot price is back up over $600. I know this is the USD/BTC thread but we Canucks can consider this a landmark of sorts. We still make most of our purchases and payments in CAD and I certainly paid for my bitcoins with CAD. Next stop: $700.

[Denker]

We've had a fair few pumps to over 465 USD that have crashed back down to below 450 USD. Lets stay calm, I'm not getting excited yet.

Yes you're right!
But it's great to see that china is able to break the 3000 CNY.Let's hope it's not just for short.

[yefi]

what's wrong with this thread?

Further up there was a page of fruitful, interesting and polite conversation.

Am I on the wrong forum?

Yeah, apparently now this is some kind of biology forum. I expect cytoarchitectonics to be explained next.

[Denker]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/index.html

Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

If he becomes president this could get really "funny".In that case I advise to buy moaaar bitcoins!!

[GGALINff]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/index.html

Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

If he becomes president this could get really "funny".In that case I advise to buy moaaar bitcoins!!

this is even better:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/study-sanders-economic-plan-piles-170219543.html

[bitebits]

We are talking about $25K - $250K in the coming decade or so without taking into considerations non mathematical elements, am I right ?

This is theory and throwing figures around. What it truly requires is people. Alot of real people. Real people take alot of convincing and they usually don't do what you want them to.

I think that these kinds of discussions of market cap and which assets are comparable in terms of utility are good, whether we be talking about theory or throwing numbers around - because in the end, we cannot know for sure how it is going to play out, but throwing out the theories and numbers can help us to view possible areas and to conceptualize what is more possible or not... and as we go along, we will continue to have to tweak our view of bitcoin and it's future based on developments in the space, whether those developments expand or contract bitcoin's actual market share, usage and utility.    $25k to $250k seems like reasonable possibilities in the coming 5-10 years - even if there may be some forces that continue to attempt to manipulate bitcoin down and to break it, possibilities of $25k to $250k seem reasonable(though certainly not inevitable - and that is where we have to account for the various forces that fight bitcoin in various ways that continue to make efforts to keep bitcoin down, and the downward force could also be explained by some attempts at downward speculation, even though downward speculation is not a complete explanation of downward price pressures, either).

If you truly believe that, and I believe you do + I am not saying you are wrong, why are you then still publicly trading for a few bucks profit per bitcoin? Is it the rush you are getting when the price runs away from you in either direction? Are you hedging against your own bullish judgement? This seems like a dangerous strategy believing what you are saying is sincere.

[Denker]

Nope china doesn't want to move yet.
Under 3000CNY again.

[Denker]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/index.html

Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

If he becomes president this could get really "funny".In that case I advise to buy moaaar bitcoins!!

this is even better:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/study-sanders-economic-plan-piles-170219543.html

Yes this is worse.But how likely is it that Sanders will win the race against Clinton? Not that much likely if you ask me.
Therefore it will be Trump vs Clinton. And in the end it won't matter who will win, because printing the bills will continue.

[GGALINff]

you know,  I'm starting to come to terms with the social proposals various candidates are throwing out there.  It seems the U.S. will be fucked anyway,  so why not get medical care,  college,  other stuff as an entitlement?

If you don't like taxes,  then you don't have to work - let someone else pay your bill - or double all salaries and tax at 50%  who the fuck knows

I don't have any answers either

[Fakhoury]

You are most welcome my new dear friend

I extremely enjoyed how deep into economics and math you are as well as your way of thinking.

Btw, I said earlier this exact same sentence (That is why i will retire at the age of 35-40, and they will work till their death ).

What do you think about triple digit BTC value, way too much or ?

I see here you perfectly elaborted what our dear centeral bank said

All what you said, as usual, I agree upon but my mind is begging me to ask in order to get the complete picture.

1. Could you please elaborate more the last part starting with "IF" until "this is math after all".

2. I'm thinking about something else now, will it be that easy to reach $5K, $10K till $250K in terms of poltical intervention and policy makers, will goverments, banks etc. keep watching Bitcoin taking over easily ?

I'm convinced with what r0ach that central banks sooner or later will buy a lot of Bitcoins as Bank of Japan is doing.

Btw, today Japan surpassed US by being the 2nd largest Bitcoin market after China.

Won't Bitcoin get cracked, not a must it's encryption, I'm talking in general.

3. Forgot the price, lets say we are now in 2025 - 2030, describe Bitcoin the escosystem, assest, currency whatever.

Still, no "complete picture", i am just extrapolating from my own knowledge/experience. But, short "answers" (more like speculations):

1. While the invention, or, rather the realization of how to run a trustless recorded timestamp server through decentralized consensus through PoW aka blockchain already made it into the public, and proved to be the most resilient application run by more than 1 computer at the same time connected to the internet, "the Satoshi" only made a possibility, not a certainty, not a definitive. Alas, the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak. That, and Heisenberg (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle which, apparently seems to work in the macro world as well, see https://www.ted.com/talks/jim_al_khalili_how_quantum_biology_might_explain_life_s_biggest_questions), is why it is "IF", despite math. :-)

2. There is a great speech, i can't recall which one, from Andreas Antonopoulos, where he discusses this matter (find it on youtube, either Prague, or Zürich?). The leading sentence is: "i have seen no global governmental consensus on ANYTHING" (not even on climate change, despite it might kill us all, as he adds). Or, you can learn about what happened, when the politburo banned the holding and trading of USD in the Soviet Union in the 70/80s- hint, it became the no.1 bribing instrument for citizens:-)

3. That question alone would require, 600 pages, in a book (i am working on it :-D) ). After i have spent, like 2-3 nights, whisky, patience and curiosity - as many before me - that STEM knowledge is an exponential curve, and not since the 60's, but since BC. 500- alas. Hence, the probability to foresee anything tech related is bound to diminishing returns - an inverse exponential curve , means to predict the correct path to predict future improvements shrinks exponentially.

With this in my mind, if Bitcoin, the protocol is still up and running in just 5 years, say 2020-2021, it might already have so alien applications, like an additional layer, that none of us can think off right now, delivering such humongous utility to users, that would be laughed at today, but will worth enormous economic value per entry units (=btc). Just like it was unfathomable to say video conference for FREE, in 1992's internet. Bitcoin, the network is nothing more than internet, it is like permissionless, uncensorable packet transfer from A to B IP address , but this one is also a registering public ledger of packets going from A to B, so we can tie value, because everyone has to acknowledge that we "have" that value, by the mechanisms of the blockchain.

Well said my friend.

1. I see your answer here is confirming what you said earlier, "I've 0 doubts", me as well having 0 doubts that Bitcoin will succeed ? Oh wait, isn't Bitcoin already succeeded ?

As r0ach said, even if we are idiots, but are really people how poured millions of $$$ into Bitcoin either in terms of VC, building mining titans and such are idiots, I extremely doubt ?!!

2. I see what you want to say here is that the best solution for people who wants to Bitcoin is to try to create alternative or cope with it, right ? What about other stubborns ? Aren't you afraid from governments ? What if some countries started taking the same route Russia is taking ?

3. What are you afraid of the most that would stop Bitcoin to continue it's journey and be the Ultimate Bitcoin if I can say ?

what's wrong with this thread?

Further up there was a page of fruitful, interesting and polite conversation.

Am I on the wrong forum?

Admit buddy, isn't it better

what's wrong with this thread?

Further up there was a page of fruitful, interesting and polite conversation.

Am I on the wrong forum?

Yeah, apparently now this is some kind of biology forum. I expect cytoarchitectonics to be explained next.

You always let me rofl hard man, you've an awesome sense of humor

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/index.html

Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

If he becomes president this could get really "funny".In that case I advise to buy moaaar bitcoins!!

If Trump become the President, the Bitcoin price will Skyrocket, starting the Mexico-US remittance issue

[USB-S]

Bitcoin

Ether

[AliceGored]

From Peter Todd's chinese AMA, https://www.bikeji.com/t/3831



So no segwit until HF code is released (Blockstream considers "released" a pull req, apparently). Wake me up in 14 months grentlement.

[Fakhoury]

Bitcoin

Ether

I really like how some people is getting the real picture right, Chapeau !!