Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BldSwtTrs]

Monday I executed a wire at Bitstamp and I still don't have anything credited on my Stamp account yet. Am i the only one in this case?

No.

Thanks for the answer.

It's weird because I have executed a wire Wednesday too and that one was credited yesterday.

[ag@th0s]

To get a loan - or not to get a loan.  That is the question.

I've only got 20% of my savings in BTC at the moment, but that was all the free cash I had and everything is else tied up in tax efficient savings/funds.  So if I want to bring more fiat in quickly to catch this rocket I either need to liquidate something or take out a loan.  I can get £7.5K @4.9% on a one year loan, with a 2 month payment holiday at the start and no early redemption penalty, which would take BTC up to 50% of my portfolio (poncey word, but you know what I mean).  Is this a risk too far - or a no-brainer?

I have done something similar, I save a few hundred pounds a month and decided instead of saving and buying coins as I go, I would stop saving and take out a loan and put the loan into bitcoin, I just missed the <$150 boat by 3 days otherwise I would have paid off that £10k loan easily. It's cool though, If bitcoin crashes and burns, 10k is something I can handle to repay and learn as a life lesson, especially when the opposite (bitcoin going to da moon) could allow me to retire wealthy within the next 5 years. Risk assessed, accepted, coins purchased.

Yeh, that's the way I'm seeing it.  If I'm lucky/time my entry well it could pay off fast, if not, I cash out my savings, pay off the loan, hold and pray.

[hlynur]

Monday I executed a wire at Bitstamp and I still don't have anything credited on my Stamp account yet. Am i the only one in this case?

No.

Thanks for the answer.
It's weird because I have executed a wire Wednesday too and that one was credited yesterday.

perhaps it was because of their recent banking software issues that a lot of transfers are still on the line
some newbie on bitstamp wall observer thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=182568.960)
mentioned same problem, would be the best if you report the problem here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
(just noticed another user with same issue)

[gandhibt]

This loan thing is depending what is the situation. It's dumb to say that investing loaned money is absolutely wrong or that it's right. Many people spend rest of their lives in debt hell and investing some of that to bitcoin might be the way to get rid of that debt. There's risk but you have to calculate those risks based on your situation.

[jatajuta]

In March 23 the H price was ~11% above the trendline and today it is ~127%. Bitcoin is a tiger, though.

You are right, is more vertical this time, but the risk of being outside far exceeds the risk of a stop loss on the worst case scenario.

[ChartBuddy]

[ag@th0s]

To get a loan - or not to get a loan.  That is the question.

I've only got 20% of my savings in BTC at the moment, but that was all the free cash I had and everything is else tied up in tax efficient savings/funds.  So if I want to bring more fiat in quickly to catch this rocket I either need to liquidate something or take out a loan.  I can get £7.5K @4.9% on a one year loan, with a 2 month payment holiday at the start and no early redemption penalty, which would take BTC up to 50% of my portfolio (poncey word, but you know what I mean).  Is this a risk too far - or a no-brainer?

If you do that you're seriously an idiot. Regardless whether you have a hunch there will be a bitcoin rally, that's something only the biggest idiot would do. You'd beat yourself to death if your plan fails...Maybe people just like to live life on the edge. I like a little risk because traditional investments are too slow for me, so i chose bitcoin. But I'd never take out a loan to invest in something (unless I had insider info or something lol)

Like I said, it's a choice of liquidating existing savings which I can afford to lose - or getting a loan which offers a chance of achieving the same level of holding, in an instrument that "may" appreciate at such a rate that I can repay within the holiday period.  If not, I cash out my savings.  It's just time shifting, not increasing any risk.  Anyway, what's with this idea that people don't borrow to invest isn't that what leverage is all about?

[ag@th0s]

To get a loan - or not to get a loan.  That is the question.

I've only got 20% of my savings in BTC at the moment, but that was all the free cash I had and everything is else tied up in tax efficient savings/funds.  So if I want to bring more fiat in quickly to catch this rocket I either need to liquidate something or take out a loan.  I can get £7.5K @4.9% on a one year loan, with a 2 month payment holiday at the start and no early redemption penalty, which would take BTC up to 50% of my portfolio (poncey word, but you know what I mean).  Is this a risk too far - or a no-brainer?

If you do that you're seriously an idiot. Regardless whether you have a hunch there will be a bitcoin rally, that's something only the biggest idiot would do. You'd beat yourself to death if your plan fails...Maybe people just like to live life on the edge. I like a little risk because traditional investments are too slow for me, so i chose bitcoin. But I'd never take out a loan to invest in something (unless I had insider info or something lol)

If you have a mortgage and put some fiat into Bitcoin, You are essentially not paying off your debt by choice and using that money for high risk bitcoin speculation.
I should think many people fall into this category. Each month you are paying extra interest charges to invest in bitcoin.
It doesn't sound as bad as when you say 'borrowing money to speculate on bitcoin', but essentially it is the same thing.

Well put, and exactly my situation.  I've got an interest only mortgage - I'm already "gambling" on property (which in London is a pretty safe bet)

[libity]

To get a loan - or not to get a loan.  That is the question.

I've only got 20% of my savings in BTC at the moment, but that was all the free cash I had and everything is else tied up in tax efficient savings/funds.  So if I want to bring more fiat in quickly to catch this rocket I either need to liquidate something or take out a loan.  I can get £7.5K @4.9% on a one year loan, with a 2 month payment holiday at the start and no early redemption penalty, which would take BTC up to 50% of my portfolio (poncey word, but you know what I mean).  Is this a risk too far - or a no-brainer?

If you do that you're seriously an idiot. Regardless whether you have a hunch there will be a bitcoin rally, that's something only the biggest idiot would do. You'd beat yourself to death if your plan fails...Maybe people just like to live life on the edge. I like a little risk because traditional investments are too slow for me, so i chose bitcoin. But I'd never take out a loan to invest in something (unless I had insider info or something lol)

Like I said, it's a choice of liquidating existing savings which I can afford to lose - or getting a loan which offers a chance of achieving the same level of holding, in an instrument that "may" appreciate at such a rate that I can repay within the holiday period.  If not, I cash out my savings.  It's just time shifting, not increasing any risk.  Anyway, what's with this idea that people don't borrow to invest isn't that what leverage is all about?

If you've got the choice, then get the money out of your savings. Take money out of savings which is earning you probably no more than 2% interest, or get a loan out on which you must pay 5% interest? Dude, this is a no brainer.

[Davyd05]

422 coin buy on stamp.. wooo that guy is feeling bullish

[MoreFun]

422 coin buy on stamp.. wooo that guy is feeling bullish

1k+. There will be ATH at stamp in a seconds.

[Davyd05]

422 coin buy on stamp.. wooo that guy is feeling bullish

1k+. There will be ATH at stamp in a seconds.

yar just got the back end of it scrolling by.. over taking gox almost, while stamps at it.

[libity]

China seems a bit more uncertain about reaching for the stars again than Stamp or Gox.

[wachtwoord]

To get a loan - or not to get a loan.  That is the question.

I've only got 20% of my savings in BTC at the moment, but that was all the free cash I had and everything is else tied up in tax efficient savings/funds.  So if I want to bring more fiat in quickly to catch this rocket I either need to liquidate something or take out a loan.  I can get £7.5K @4.9% on a one year loan, with a 2 month payment holiday at the start and no early redemption penalty, which would take BTC up to 50% of my portfolio (poncey word, but you know what I mean).  Is this a risk too far - or a no-brainer?

If you do that you're seriously an idiot. Regardless whether you have a hunch there will be a bitcoin rally, that's something only the biggest idiot would do. You'd beat yourself to death if your plan fails...Maybe people just like to live life on the edge. I like a little risk because traditional investments are too slow for me, so i chose bitcoin. But I'd never take out a loan to invest in something (unless I had insider info or something lol)

Like I said, it's a choice of liquidating existing savings which I can afford to lose - or getting a loan which offers a chance of achieving the same level of holding, in an instrument that "may" appreciate at such a rate that I can repay within the holiday period.  If not, I cash out my savings.  It's just time shifting, not increasing any risk.  Anyway, what's with this idea that people don't borrow to invest isn't that what leverage is all about?

If you've got the choice, then get the money out of your savings. Take money out of savings which is earning you probably no more than 2% interest, or get a loan out on which you must pay 5% interest? Dude, this is a no brainer.

The money in his savings are likely making way more than 2%. It's in tax deferred account so I presume it's invested in the market.

As he explains it, loaning is probably the option with the highest expected value and the downside risk isn't that great.

[ag@th0s]

This loan thing is depending what is the situation. It's dumb to say that investing loaned money is absolutely wrong or that it's right. Many people spend rest of their lives in debt hell and investing some of that to bitcoin might be the way to get rid of that debt. There's risk but you have to calculate those risks based on your situation.

Thanks, luckily I'm not in that risky a position, but I think you're point is true even for people in debt - it's a personal risk/benefit calculation.  Can I survive total failure? Yes.  Does the potential benefit justify the risk?  Hell yes  

[Davyd05]

China seems a bit more uncertain about reaching for the stars again than Stamp or Gox.

have you converted.. the value of cny they are trading at.. they are already in the 800usd in China

[Mirsad]

China seems a bit more uncertain about reaching for the stars again than Stamp or Gox.

have you converted.. the value of cny they are trading at.. there already in the 800usd in China

China was allways in this range the last hours.
They even were above 5100! Now at lousy 4950.

[ChefBorjan]

Just saw the BitStamp ATH... blink and you missed it, but it still... choo choo and all that.

[rpietila]

If bitcoin goes up, it is a profit really, because it opens up new opportunities to influence the world to the better. Also in this case it rewards us with a 7-figure fiat position.

Oh, please, bear with me too.

I can see clearly that you have a very complex way of losing!!!  

It almost feels like not losing at all, doesn't it?

[gandhibt]

If bitcoin goes up, it is a profit really, because it opens up new opportunities to influence the world to the better. Also in this case it rewards us with a 7-figure fiat position.

Oh, please, bear with me too.

I can see clearly that you have a very complex way of losing!!!  

It almost feels like not losing at all, doesn't it?

btw you don't have to be right %50< of the time to make money, you can easily be wrong %80 of the time and still make money if your winning trades are that much bigger. Buying back at loss is the most important thing to successful long time low risk trading.