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Question: Where is the bottom?
<$18,000 - 37 (37.8%)
$18,000-$19,000 - 11 (11.2%)
$19,001-$20,000 - 18 (18.4%)
$20,001-$21,000 - 16 (16.3%)
$21,001-$22,000 - 7 (7.1%)
$22,001-$23,000 - 9 (9.2%)
Total Voters: 98

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25703912 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (170 posts by 5 users with 9 merit deleted.)
jojo69
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1/21000000 , the only math you need to know


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December 01, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (5)


Hey that one is for the ladies Santa will be stuffing their stockings very soon.

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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


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December 01, 2021, 06:30:22 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

OT: Watch what the politicians do, not what they say.

What they say: "We need more affordable home building in the U.S. !"

What they do: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/softwood-lumber-1.6262036

Quote
The U.S. says Canadian lumber producers dump their product into the U.S. at a lower price than American lumber companies can because they are subsidized. So the U.S. puts a tariff on all softwood lumber from Canada to raise its price at the retail level, which encourages consumers to buy American wood.

What are these subsidies they speak of?
JayJuanGee
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ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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December 01, 2021, 06:32:23 PM

Is it just me or does Raoul Pal just talk a load of nonsense and always gives a very vague roundabout answer to every question?  Huh

Surprised to see so many people have a complete orgasm when he appears on crypto channels such as InvestAnswers today.

What's up with the weird red barber chair behind him? Is he really just a local barber in the Caymans and disguised as a hedge fund manager?

I think one comment on the video about Pal hit the nail on the head:

"The one thing I don’t like about Raoul is he uses crypto as a way to maximize his USD. He’s a fiat maximalist disguised in crypto clothing."

To me he just seems to back what he thinks is the fastest horse without any justification other than being lucky, switching from BTC to ETH: "I saw it when the chart changed."
Whatever...

I stopped listening to him when he made it clear that he prefers shitEthereum to Bitcoin. He does this on the basis that the user base is going to grow much more, and this year shitEther has gone up more than Bitcoin, so yes, the only thing he cares about is the return it gives him in fiat USD.

I prefer Bitcoin for other reasons. Obviously, if we believed that bitcoin would not give us any return, or even losses, none of us would invest in it. But even though there may be shitcoins that have more return than bitcoin in the future, and even though the parabolic price rises might be over for Bitcoin (which remains to be seen), it is worth investing in because it frees us from the clutches of central banks and governments.

Without getting too much into shitcoin discussions and comparison/contrast of various shitcoins, Raoul Pal does tend to provide decent arguments for both allocation of risks and taking gambles on upside performance, so it can be a wee bit difficult to assert that he is "doing it wrong" - even though on a personal level I have continued to have issues with spending any kind of meaningful time to study various possible Ethereum upside performance scenarios - because I am concerned about various rug pulls that could come at any time and including the fact that so many shitcoins and scams are built upon it, which causes me additional reservations regarding a variety of ongoing risks for crashes or breakenings of the systems underlying that seemingly smoke and mirrors project.. that could even remain sustainable for way the hell longer than anyone would consider to be possible... would we say ponzi scheme upon ponzi scheme but it keeps going and even various semblance of officialdom by having some credible players participating in that crazy-ass house of cards of multiple scammenings.

Of course, bitcoin has way stronger underlying foundations in which its base would not be so easily threatened, even if some scammy projects could end up still being built upon bitcoin too.. but like you summarize PPlayer.. there is a kind of foundational level with BTC that allows a very integral and intimate ability for individuals to be enpowered to be their own bank.. and even if neither banks nor governments disappear, they are likely going to have to adapt to foundational competitive aspects of bitcoin that cannot be stopped in any kind of meaningful or significant way - because of the way that bitcoin is designed, including proof of work in which no other coin or project has that - even if ethereum might try to present itself as the same thing and perhaps part of the aspect that remains so bothersome with Raoul Pal remains that he is part of the problem of obfuscating such differences in his touting and investing into ethereum that likely causes normies to be confused in terms of falsely equating that ethereum offers some kind of similar product (and even sometimes wrongly implying that ethereum is superior based on some possible short term pumpamentals that might actually seem to exist... .which does not take away from it being mostly vapourware that a whole hell of a lot of people are simultaneously pumping up... so surely short-term outperforming bitcoin does happen through those kinds of mechanisms but for many of us does not cause the ponzi-scheme natured crap to suddenly become "investible" merely because a bunch of snot-nosed retards (ok. I am exaggerating a wee tiny bit just to make a point) - including Raoul Pal.. hahahahaha.. are jumping on the bandwagon).
naim027
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December 01, 2021, 06:44:16 PM

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still bouncing along in the $5xxxx range... currently $58402USD/$74455CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Time for a serious move upward.


I hope we won't see another Floor Cracking move instead.

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December 01, 2021, 06:47:18 PM

I generally agree on eth, which has MANY flaws with huge pre-mining being the most galling example, BUT the darned thing has momentum and there is some chance that it (or some other coin peddled by investment banks) would "flip" bitcoin.

I would be sad if it happens.

The main cause of that potential flip would be that less people (especially, developers) are working on bitcoin vs ethereum, hence less people improving it.
Human endeavors with more people actively involved tend to progress faster.
However, what do I know? Maybe eth itself would be supplanted (since it is darned expensive to use) by some other protocol, which seem to be growing and getting allegiances incredibly fast right now.

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be easily disregarded.
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December 01, 2021, 06:50:46 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (3), JimboToronto (1)

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be dismissed.

It is not.

Do you want to actually debate this statement, or like everyone else do you want to make a blanket generalized statement without evidence to support it?

Momentum in price is not evidence that ETH contributes anything.
cAPSLOCK
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----------bbl


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December 01, 2021, 06:51:26 PM

This Michael Saylor Tucker Carlson interview might be more important than we might think...
Torque
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December 01, 2021, 06:54:51 PM

This Michael Saylor Tucker Carlson interview might be more important than we might think...

Perhaps, but I am always sus on timing of such MSM displays.

The bigger question is why now?
JayJuanGee
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ESG, KYC & AML are attack vectors on Bitcoin


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December 01, 2021, 06:58:59 PM

Haven't looked at the dominance for a little while, was hoping for better.

Yes.. some of us like to distract our lil selfies with irrelevancies...


hahahahahaha


#nohomo

THAT time of the year is approaching so why don't we support king Daddy with our gay xmas cards early?  Grin



Though I appreciate your nostalgia for a kind of "grounding in" tradition.. but a bit much for this here cat.

[edited out]

Why I'm suspicious of Ethereum:

  • No specific supply limit set, only now that the devs / Vitalik can see what a limit has meant for BTC and Eth competitors are they wanting to go down the deflationary / burning route. This does not give great confidence in the original idea behind Eth I think. More like a market reaction which puts it more in line with things like stocks (company stock by back stuff etc). This means in future they can just release another trillion Eth if they feel like it. But the devs / Vitalik would sell their own stash first obviously.

I agree with the various points that you mentioned in your post.. but regarding the above snipped part, I still must exclaim: "Holy shit BBunny!"

Doesn't the obfuscation and confusion go way the fuck beyond merely trying to show that they are "more responsible" and reserving capacities to do whatever they want in the future?  It seems to me that another very problematic area is that no one has hardly any clue (except perhaps some of those same insiders like Vitalik) regarding what the supply was in the first place.  So how the hell are we going to know if their cutting of any of the supply has any kind of actual physical impact or whatever because we have no clue about the starting off number.... In other words, they could burn 2 billion ethereum, and if they still have another 4 billion in reserves beyond the actual known supply then what difference would their burning make beyond just the creation of a ploy or an appearance.[/list]
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December 01, 2021, 07:01:27 PM


Explanation
naim027
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December 01, 2021, 07:02:46 PM
Merited by cAPSLOCK (5)

One word of advice.

Be careful digging into and exposing the personal details of the people in this thread.  As in avoiding it.  It is not good etiquette as most of us want to remain anonymous, and safe. Luckily... I don't mind terribly.  My opsec is fairly well blown here, and as you have discovered there is a lot of personal info about me on this forum.

I did offer bitcoin as payment at my business, and none of my clients ever went to the trouble to use it.  Even with a 20% discount.

I still live in Dallas.

Sadly for me, I was around for the beginning of bitcoin, but as a starving artist I never really accumulated very much of it... so no buying of islands for me.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

To be honest, I had a headache after this incident, And I feel shy to reply to you about why I did. I doubt I don't have a sense of humor or basic common sense. To be honest, I thought you would appreciate me just because I remembered some golden old days. But, I forget that every coin has two sides. This is a good lesson for me. I forget to say sorry. I am really "SORRY" and apologize.

I also Noticed maybe The JayJuanGee Put me on his ignore list just because of my common sense. Sad
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----------bbl


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December 01, 2021, 07:29:45 PM

One word of advice.

Be careful digging into and exposing the personal details of the people in this thread.  As in avoiding it.  It is not good etiquette as most of us want to remain anonymous, and safe. Luckily... I don't mind terribly.  My opsec is fairly well blown here, and as you have discovered there is a lot of personal info about me on this forum.

I did offer bitcoin as payment at my business, and none of my clients ever went to the trouble to use it.  Even with a 20% discount.

I still live in Dallas.

Sadly for me, I was around for the beginning of bitcoin, but as a starving artist I never really accumulated very much of it... so no buying of islands for me.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

To be honest, I had a headache after this incident, And I feel shy to reply to you about why I did. I doubt I don't have a sense of humor or basic common sense. To be honest, I thought you would appreciate me just because I remembered some golden old days. But, I forget that every coin has two sides. This is a good lesson for me. I forget to say sorry. I am really "SORRY" and apologize.

I also Noticed maybe The JayJuanGee Put me on his ignore list just because of my common sense. Sad

Don't worry about it.  It's ok.  But it's a good lesson to learn.  Someone who has been around bitcoin since 2011, but is perhaps smarter than me, could be wealthy now.  And therefore he and his family could be a target for people who expect to threaten him.  Things like his history, the city in which he lives.  Those are details that could be dangerous for a person like that.

First of all, I am not rich, thanks to my lack of wisdom, as well as money back in 2011, and until now. 

Bitcoin will have to go up many orders of magnitude more before i could possibly retire.

You were clever to go and look.  But it is impossible for me to know your motives.  So, out here I am going to let you know... one person to another.

So, no hard feelings.
Biodom
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December 01, 2021, 07:32:18 PM

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be dismissed.

It is not.

Do you want to actually debate this statement, or like everyone else do you want to make a blanket generalized statement without evidence to support it?

Momentum in price is not evidence that ETH contributes anything.

since I am in favor of btc and NOT in favor of eth, what is there to debate?
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----------bbl


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December 01, 2021, 07:36:07 PM

This Michael Saylor Tucker Carlson interview might be more important than we might think...

Perhaps, but I am always sus on timing of such MSM displays.

The bigger question is why now?

Well it is interesting.  I would not think Tucker would be the place the puppeteers would want to have Saylor.  Unless they were trying to draw his audience in before xxxxx.  But that seems pretty paranoid.

That show has viewers in the millions a day.  I am not one of them, but I have no doubt some who are will get orange pilled by it, so to speak.

The question is how many... and how many will it take?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swhEa8vuP6U
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December 01, 2021, 07:43:50 PM
Last edit: December 01, 2021, 10:26:07 PM by naim027

Someone who has been around bitcoin since 2011, but is perhaps smarter than me, could be wealthy now.  And therefore he and his family could be a target for people who expect to threaten him.  Things like his history, the city in which he lives.  Those are details that could be dangerous for a person like that.
I never thought this way. I was positive and tried to remember the golden old days.


You were clever to go and look.  But it is impossible for me to know your motives.  So, out here I am going to let you know... one person to another.
So, no hard feelings.

To be honest, I am still learning from old members and trying to find out what is key to their success. You are a Legendary Member. And I always try to follow Legendary members and take a look at how many threads they created. how much affords they gave. So, I was looking at your account and I was just Surprised that you created only 5 threads. (I hope you won't mind just because I shared this info) So, I learned another lesson from your account that you don't have to create threads to rank up. You can contribute to the forum even without creating a thread.

I appreciate you didn't mind terribly.
JayJuanGee
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December 01, 2021, 07:44:29 PM

However, what do I know?

Likely you do not know too much.



 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be dismissed.

It is not.

Do you want to actually debate this statement, or like everyone else do you want to make a blanket generalized statement without evidence to support it?

Momentum in price is not evidence that ETH contributes anything.

Hahahahaha

Along with providing some humour... Torque saved me from: 1) a potentially wordy postening, 2) further devolving into bullshit/irrelevant shitcoins and 3) causing pains upon my brains.

Thanks torquey porkey.   Wink
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December 01, 2021, 07:45:51 PM

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be dismissed.

It is not.

Do you want to actually debate this statement, or like everyone else do you want to make a blanket generalized statement without evidence to support it?

Momentum in price is not evidence that ETH contributes anything.

since I am in favor of btc and NOT in favor of eth, what is there to debate?

We don't have to like it or acknowledge the existence of ETH, but I can tell you that while BTC will go to $100k or higher soon, in the same time frame we are also going to see ETH go to $10k or higher.

I too, saw it from the beginning, but decided not to buy any of it, or even mine it because I did not understand what it was supposed to do, or what it could achieve. What I do understand is that it is a platform for some smart contracts and all sorts of other things, and while I do not like the monetary issuance of supply and all sorts of other things about it, I know it's going to stick around for awhile, quite possibly long enough for many of us here to die of old age.

The "smart" thing to consider now is if you want to or can you make profits out of this or not, or are you willing to.

The maxi's inside of us (and around us) are going to stick to the "safety" of bitcoin, or that's actually the smart thing to do, stick to bitcoin. Don't bother with anything else no matter what their numbers say. No one understands them, and the guys who think they do, a lot of them lose money anyway.

About the only thing even considered smarter than this, is to simply buy and hold them if you want to play with different allocations among shitcoins. Buy and hold some BTC. Buy and hold some ETH. Hold for 5 years. Do not day trade or whatever. With the understanding that there is the possibility you will lose whatever you put into any shitcoins, including ETH, but you will most likely profit from just holding bitcoin for longer than 5 years.
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December 01, 2021, 07:58:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV5QlSgq7lg

have you guys Watched this video made by Bizonacci?
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December 01, 2021, 08:01:27 PM


Explanation
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December 01, 2021, 08:07:41 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (5), vapourminer (2), HeRetiK (1)

TL;DR poo-pooing eth is justifiable, but it is a strong competitor that is not to be dismissed.

It is not.

Do you want to actually debate this statement, or like everyone else do you want to make a blanket generalized statement without evidence to support it?

Momentum in price is not evidence that ETH contributes anything.

since I am in favor of btc and NOT in favor of eth, what is there to debate?

We don't have to like it or acknowledge the existence of ETH, but I can tell you that while BTC will go to $100k or higher soon, in the same time frame we are also going to see ETH go to $10k or higher.

I too, saw it from the beginning, but decided not to buy any of it, or even mine it because I did not understand what it was supposed to do, or what it could achieve. What I do understand is that it is a platform for some smart contracts and all sorts of other things, and while I do not like the monetary issuance of supply and all sorts of other things about it, I know it's going to stick around for awhile, quite possibly long enough for many of us here to die of old age.

The "smart" thing to consider now is if you want to or can you make profits out of this or not, or are you willing to.

The maxi's inside of us (and around us) are going to stick to the "safety" of bitcoin, or that's actually the smart thing to do, stick to bitcoin. Don't bother with anything else no matter what their numbers say. No one understands them, and the guys who think they do, a lot of them lose money anyway.

About the only thing even considered smarter than this, is to simply buy and hold them if you want to play with different allocations among shitcoins. Buy and hold some BTC. Buy and hold some ETH. Hold for 5 years. Do not day trade or whatever. With the understanding that there is the possibility you will lose whatever you put into any shitcoins, including ETH, but you will most likely profit from just holding bitcoin for longer than 5 years.
I agree with your premise that ETH has interesting properties that make it worth studying in spite of it's flaws which are many and quite great.

The biggest one, in my opinion, is the SAME one that all the big block chains will try to do.  And that is to cram the entire operative data-set onto the blockchain.

If ETH continues to be relevant, or even successful then it is destined to centralize.  By the looks of it we will see it centralize both by miner centralization (eventually blockchain centralization ) as well as stake centralization.

This is dangerous because it will attract the folks who recognize that this can be exploited, and therefore make certain people rich at the expense of those who will not be.  This could include governments, and the super wealthy business folks.

In fact it's very genesis is anchored in that reality.  And ALL the changes since inception have enforces that. Pre-mines Chain splits.  Edicts. Changes to issuance.  All of these things "justified" by the leaders.  This will CONTINUE to go on, and fool the fools until ... well forever.

So the biggest most "feature rich" centralized chain will be the ultimate enemy of bitcoin.  Whether that is ETH, a CDBC, or God forbit some sort of combination.

Bitcoin's biggest problem is it is not well understood by not only the masses, but even it's faithful.  It is misunderstood why it is important.  And why ETH is fundamentally NOTHING LIKE IT.  in fact it's opposite ultimately.
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