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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (0.9%)
7/28 - 11 (10.3%)
8/4 - 16 (15%)
8/11 - 7 (6.5%)
8/18 - 6 (5.6%)
8/25 - 7 (6.5%)
After August - 59 (55.1%)
Total Voters: 107

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26464740 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JayJuanGee
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December 21, 2021, 01:53:55 AM

I explicitly believe that there will be new highs in 2022, but i also have an eye on exchange illiquidity, which would make sense to me to strike somewhere in 2023.
You may call it a triple-top. The unprobabilistic part is the fact we didn't have this formation before, which is supporting my idea (or vision) of said outplay.
And it could be the slow squeeze of illiquidity that will make the 2022 blow-off less steep, and the liquidity crunch in 2023 more unexpected from the now terms of view.

Of course, i would be a moron if i would only believe in this one scenario and not prepare for other possibilities (which are more likely to play out by probability), even more so reading your past postings and ignoring their message to develop a flexible strategy, or strategies.  
But since this is an inverse approach to the ole school probability type of reasoning, i would not be surprised if future happenings would come near that.
Just mainly because of SOMA fundamentals. And Murphy's Law...

Short version: Bullish on 2022, but not suprised if 2023 gets even more bullish because of the effect of the supply-crunch, when the majority would expect the slow fade out of the bear market. As you know, i plan to hodl the vast majority of my stash for years and decades to come, i will be fine whatever will come.

This scenario looks pretty realistic to me. Triple top is something we haven't witnessed before but why not? I mean BTC can't be that predictable to follow the same pattern over and over again. Back in October one of my nocoiner friends mentioned something about taking a loan and buying BTC as it's bound to skyrocket in December. Easy-peasy, piece of cake, no-brainer. That's when I understood moonshot is not going to happen most probably.  Grin

Sorry, there are no triple tops or triple bottoms...with >90% probability.


Well I'm not a trader or a TA person I'm not sure if it exists or not (well it does in theory but I'm not sure about RL) I just used this term to make it clear there's going to be a third top (wave) going considerably higher than 2 previous ones. If you're good at TA you can come up with a correct term for that.  Cool

It is the correct term, but unicorn is also a correct term. I was simply saying that it almost never happens.
IMHO, people are still counting on the swoosh back up in bitcoin, but we might have a flat before this.

Your further explanation (Biodom) shows us that you did not really have a very good answer in the first place. 

So we well could end up having one top at $64,895 in mid-April, and then a second top of $69k-ish in early November and then a third attempt to break above $69k in January, February or maybe even as late as the 2nd quarter of 2022 - and then maybe that would not be a triple top but just some waves of UPpity BTC price dynamics that show that the top is just getting higher and higher.  And, sure the price might not end up performing how people had been expecting it to perform with an exponential price move on the second time, but instead an exponential price rise ends up happening on the third time around.. or maybe that third time around does not end up being a an exponential rise but instead merely another higher top that is 10% to 30% higher than the previous top.... .. so what's wrong with that?

It seems to be just ongoing upward price pressures and the catching up of buying support that could end up pushing bitcoin into another exponential up phase.. of maybe 5x to 6x or maybe just some kind of price move that ends up playing out smaller than 5x.  could be scurve adoption.  could be network effects.  It's not like bitcoin is a mature asset in which it would be restricted by those kinds of ideas of double or triple tops..


BTW, TA may rarely predict something, it is almost always post factum.

Fair point.

However, the same could be said about the fundamental analysis, which often misses something "fundamental' and the results are skewed.

You mean that we do not have the pressures of exponential s-curve effects that are based on network effects and metcalfe principles that are affecting bitcoin's price... .. the facts don't seem to support your suggestion that fundamentals like that are actually lacking...

Tons of people were "fundamentally" bearish on Amazon from 2000 to 2015, but they were wrong because market anticipated large current earnings and almost unshakable market position of that company. Market was using advanced algebra when some or even most analysts were following simple arithmetic.

Hm?  So are you suggesting that the fundamentals in bitcoin might be wrong in the sense of our bullish case still existing or are you making some other point about anything could happen?

Yes, some people will get worked up about the guy's choice to shave off 9 BTC all at once, maybe even yours truly, because I am a bit concerned about shaving off 25% all at once, but I would not have been so much concerned about shaving off 5% here and 5% there and maybe even getting to the same result of shaving off 9 BTC at some point (25%).

Quality of life. Anyone who hasn't fully owned their own house (property taxes notwithstanding), it's quite nice. Fancy cars though? I would also consider waiting for a bit higher BTC prices before buying a house that much but then again, every time I look at house prices, they are higher than what I'm expecting.

I thought that my point had more to do with how much he was cashing out all at once.. which was 25%, and my whole speal was an attempt to show another way to justify how much to cash out, and my conclusion would have ended up with cashing out less than 1/4 what he did... ..

In other words, I was not really very critical in his description of the various items that he said that he had chosen to spend those 9 BTC (25% of his stash).. just the seemingly doing it in such a large chunk... remember LFC seems to have done a very similar thing recently.... and maybe from a similar perspective in terms of feeling that maybe he had a bit too much exposure to bitcoin.. so would likely not have been so persuaded by my alternative way of attempting to justify how much to cash out..


Yes, some people will get worked up about the guy's choice to shave off 9 BTC all at once, maybe even yours truly, because I am a bit concerned about shaving off 25% all at once, but I would not have been so much concerned about shaving off 5% here and 5% there and maybe even getting to the same result of shaving off 9 BTC at some point (25%).

Quality of life. Anyone who hasn't fully owned their own house (property taxes notwithstanding), it's quite nice. Fancy cars though? I would also consider waiting for a bit higher prices but then again, every time I look at house prices, they are higher than what I'm expecting.

Took me many years to be debt free. It is a nice thing.

I will admit that I cannot really discount some of the subjective value that comes from putting a kind of priority on that angle, even though it did not really take away from my attempt to frame the cashing out in a less extreme way.. an attempt to play incrementalism a bit more for the reasons that I had already stated.

Furthermore, we should appreciate that there is some value in trying to leverage debt - especially when it comes to bitcoin management.. so getting debt free might not be completely a great rationale to cash out 25% at once rather than a smaller amount such as 4-10% or something like that.. and yes, I know that there can be many ways to say.. "but... blah blah blah." and that is part of the reason that I attempted to describe why I would consider my anticipation of BTC's price performance in the next 1-3 years to figure out how much to cash out based on that, and it seems to me that odds are pretty high that $55k will be reached again in less than 2 years and for that reason I maximized the amount that I would have cashed out to have been either 1 or 2 years worth of liquidity rather than 3 years.. which for me added up to 1.4 BTC to 2.8 BTC maximum (in the context of having had hypothetically held 35 BTC as cryptorich13 had proclaimed).

Quote from the future.

Stuck at 470k again it seems.   Sad

December 2025 seems more realistic...

December 2024 seems too soon.. that's just my tentative thoughts.
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December 21, 2021, 02:01:27 AM


Explanation
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December 21, 2021, 02:42:15 AM

I think that everyone should ponder this question: why this cycle so far did not pan out as expected by almost EVERYBODY?
To some it might mean that the exponential boom-bust cycles are over.

To me it means that bitcoin is in transition: it has to go over the technological chasm from the early adopters to early majority.
The volatility in that is less than during "innovators" and "early adopters" stages, but still significant with periodic setbacks.

I am perfectly fine if the four year cycles are mostly gone and we are simply in a price discovery mode.
I expect the prices much higher eventually, but short term the price seems chaotic (does not really follow any prior predictions).
It zigs when it was "supposed" to zag, etc. This 'perversion' actually started in 2019, but most people dismissed it as a one-off aberration.

Remember "the fractal" idea? It fit for a while. All TA guys seem to be befuddled if not outright 'amused' by the current situation.
Albeit, we have no coherent theory of what to expect since S2F is currently on the brink...barely hugging the lower grey band.
planB did not throw in the towel yet, but it is getting close, unfortunately.
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1472241754837557256
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December 21, 2021, 03:01:36 AM


Explanation
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December 21, 2021, 03:32:36 AM
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Stuck at 47k again it seems.

Less than three years ago we were stuck at 4.7k for a while.

In a few years we might be pissed that it's stuck at 470k.

You bet, we'll be pissed.

Quote from the future.

Stuck at 470k again it seems.   Sad



Remember this?


I remember it well, completely pissed me off.
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December 21, 2021, 03:35:03 AM
Last edit: December 21, 2021, 05:02:10 AM by JayJuanGee

I think that everyone should ponder this question: why this cycle so far did not pan out as expected by almost EVERYBODY?

That's an unfair characterization.  

Sure, there are some people who likely assigned high probabilities to some level of new ATH above $69k UPpity to play out by November/December as if BTC were on some kind of a schedule.. but I doubt that it is really fair to assert (as you did) that "everybody" felt some variation of that.. and numerous times, I asserted that bitcoin is not on a schedule and even I left for some openness in the timeline.  ..   you think that I am unique?  You believe that all other people were expecting some kind of guaranteed UPpity?

I am nobody special in terms of attempting to characterize how people likely feel or speculate about BTC price... Sure a lot of people might express themselves by using absolute terms, but if they actually really believed that BTC prices were guaranteed to keep breaking ATHs above and beyond $69k they would have put their life savings (maybe even 100%) into bitcoin... .and the vast majority of people do not do those kinds of things..

I just don't believe that hardly any people believe that there was some kind of guaranteed UPpity.. even though you are saying that everyone is disappointed.. that's ridiculous..

Sure maybe a very small minority of people thought that there was some kind of a guarantee and by definition a very small minority could not be reflective of what "everybody" thinks...

Your exaggeration comes off as a form of trolling and finger pointing... remember notlambchops used to do that..? point and laugh at us... and surely not a genuine poster he was not.. and sure there are some other participants in this thread currently who don't own any significant or meaningful amounts of BTC and point at any kind of possible negative BTC price performance or lack of up and say "I told you so."

I personally still believe that we are in a real good place.. especially compared with last year around this time when we were just crossing over $20k for the first time and especially if we go back to September 2020 when we were stuck in the ballpark of $10k for a while.. and could not really get above $10k and stay above $10k for any kind of meaningful stretch of time for about two and a half years of time before that.

To some it might mean that the exponential boom-bust cycles are over.

Yes... some do like to get premature in their anticipations of calling an end to some kind of phenomenon without any evidence beyond mere conclusory assertions and surely before the end actually has come.  

Good luck with that Biodom, you will need it... and even you should realize that there are some folks who truly wish for the end of exponential booms in bitcoin and many folks wishing for stability of BTC prices (which does not really happen in bitcoin), so hard to assert disappointment if such a stability thing were to actually happen.. and surely I would ascribe the end of exponential booms as a long-shot theory.. so I will believe the end of exponential booms (and busts) when I see it.. and if an exponential or blow off top does not happen by the 3rd quarter, I might start to concede that such blow off top is not happening this cycle, perhaps?  But, surely we gotta get there first.. which if you had not noticed, when bearwhales manipulate the BTC price downity for so long, there is almost no choice except to get another blow off top..

In udder wurds.. bitcoin no doesn't work like that.

We get all kinds of overshoots in both directions in bitcoin and such high levels of volatility have happened very recently too, if you had not been paying attention.. so proclaiming that the overshoots are just going to miraculously stop in one direction?  We likely need more evidence than your mere bold and bald assertion of the end of such exponential UPs.

And, gosh a stacking up of shorts or on the other hand a stacking up of longs also seem to provide fuel for those kinds of ongoing explosive happenings.. .people like to bet and then they get their asses handed to them.. and why would those kinds of explosive reckenings just suddenly end.. merely because Biodom says (or asserts it to be so?).

To me it means that bitcoin is in transition: it has to go over the technological chasm from the early adopters to early majority.

It's possible that there could be some kind of a chasm.. but seems that you might be making shit up and trying to describe bitcoin in a way that is not really applicable to what is actually happening..   I would not be asserting that the various battles in bitcoin are not over, but it seems to me that bitcoin has already gone over quite a few chasms in terms of so many network effects continuing to build in a large variety of ways, whether we are referring to mining or individual adoption, or institutional increasingly adding into their treasuries, governments playing around with bitcoin in a variety of ways including some examples in El Salvador, a variety of new financial instruments coming onto the market, even various expansions of the lightning network and some other second layer expansions, and likely there are a lot of other examples of various network effects..
So likely the growth in bitcoin's adoption and networking effects remains ongoing and incremental and crossing over a variety of previously considered barriers, and where would the chasms be in the way?   I suppose that each of us can assess these kinds of matters involving fundamentals however we like.. even if we are making things up in our heads about some supposed chasm that supposedly exist and supposedly need to be crossed.

The volatility in that is less than during "innovators" and "early adopters" stages, but still significant with periodic setbacks.

You probably need to back up your assertions a wee bit MOAR better.. It's not even easy to go along with that idea to consider what you might be talking about.. you mean that lightning network is not quite expanded enough, perhaps?  Seems a stretch whatever it is that you are referring to and propagating.

I am perfectly fine if the four year cycles are mostly gone and we are simply in a price discovery mode.
I expect the prices much higher eventually, but short term the price seems chaotic (does not really follow any prior predictions).

Way too soon to call "chaotic" out of what we currently have in front of us... but what else is new to be coming out of your usually doomedly and gloomedly inclined keyboard?

It zigs when it was "supposed" to zag, etc. This 'perversion' actually started in 2019, but most people dismissed it as a one-off aberration.

Remember "the fractal" idea? It fit for a while. All TA guys seem to be befuddled if not outright 'amused' by the current situation.

I see no idea why the fractal would not still be in play, and TA of various guys is all over the place, so you should not be lumping all TA guys together as if they agree on matters and they all had failed.

Albeit, we have no coherent theory of what to expect since S2F is currently on the brink...barely hugging the lower grey band.
planB did not throw in the towel yet, but it is getting close, unfortunately.
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1472241754837557256

So many folks hoping for the death of S2F.. it is far from dead.. even if PlanB might give up upon it.. which even from the tweet that you cite from a couple of days ago, he seems quite far away from giving up upon the model.  In that tweet PlanB said:  "I actually like being at the lower bands. In fact I published the model at the lower bands in March 2019 with btc below 4K."

Remember his assertion is that the average BTC price (I believe that he is referring to weighted average) for this halvening period is supposed to be $100k, and we are not even half way through the halvening period.. I suppose the half way point will come around March / April 2024.. so then there would be about two years and 3 months more before the next halvening period begins.
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December 21, 2021, 03:55:06 AM
Last edit: September 10, 2023, 01:13:55 PM by dragonvslinux
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Quote
NVTS is a bit of a granddaddy as far as on-chain indicators go, but it still works.

It doesn't signal "oversold" very often.

https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1473008254401671168

Quote from: NVT Signal
NVTS = Network Value / 90d MA of Daily Transaction Value.

https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-nvt-signal/

Closing 4 days below the 200 Day MA ($47.2K), and no follow through? Looks like a bear trap. Price now attempting to break back above...



Pretty clear +10% target to $53K level if price can break out of bullish descending wedge. Multiple touch-points of support confirm strength.


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December 21, 2021, 04:01:27 AM


Explanation
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December 21, 2021, 04:12:52 AM
Last edit: December 21, 2021, 04:56:09 AM by Gachapin

It seems many people are fairly bearish right now.

I pulled a block of coins I had loaded up on the exchange back into my own custody the other day.

No freaking way I'm selling in this messy volatility.

Doing whatever small things I can do to help contribute to supply shock on the exchanges.

As much as Trace Meyer turned out to be a douchebag with his whole "Buy my shitcoin on TradeOgre" misstep the whole "Proof of keys" idea was a really good one.

It suffered from two issues.

1.  It had a stupid name.  The name only appealed to people who already held all their own coins.
2.  It ignores human nature.  There are several reasons why humans don't want to hold their own keys... and they really never will.

But the idea was genius.  If we all held or own coins it would absolutely change the reality of the markets instantly.  But it's akin to going into that kind of heroin treatment where they put you in a coma and shoot you chock full of opioid antagonists.  It's the express lane to getting off the teat.  But you still have to want it to do it.

But people will do Bitcoin the way they have always done money.  They will have a third party look over their horde.

Anyway, I thank you for taking your coins off.  I know you generally hold your coins, but every little bit helps!

(Also, seriously...  what Meyer just full of it?  He always talked about buying BTC at $0.25.  His whole scam reeked of him needing to bolster his stack... I wonder if he was really mostly talk.)  

Great you mention it. Thanks!  
I feel bad that I almost forgot about it.

It should be talked about much more than it was, recently.

Proof-of-keys' importance cannot be overstated as a concept of keeping the 'market' in line with reality.
It would not be doable with any other asset class!

However, that exactly might be the 3rd reason why it did't work yet:  The concept is just too new.
Many are not used to have that kind of 'democratic' power in the market. Or just don't see the necessity of it (although it directly influences their net worth).

Maybe a bit like when you release an animal into the wild. Often it doesn't know to how to act out its newly found freedom. And sometimes it never will, because it's too heavily accustomed to its captivity.

I fear that might be the case. And that only future generations start to really value that concept and make use of it.
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December 21, 2021, 04:22:13 AM
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I know it goes without saying in this thread but I can't help myself.  Buy Bitcoin!

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/grim-outlook-as-housing-affordability-hits-31-year-low-1.1698487

Housing affordability in Canada deteriorated to the worst level in 31 years in the third quarter of 2021, according to a new report from RBC Economics.

According to RBC Economist Robert Hogue, aggregate home ownership costs rose to 47.5 per cent of median household income in the latest quarter. That was a sequential increase of two percentage points and marked a nearly six point increase compared to a year earlier.

RBC includes factors such as mortgage payments, property taxes and utilities to measure ownership costs.

"The need for more supply has never been greater. This became clearly evident in the past year with bidding wars springing up in places that have rarely or never seen them before, and intensifying in places more accustomed to them. And until demand and supply return closer to balance, prices will continue to rise," Hogue wrote in the report.

...

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December 21, 2021, 04:23:19 AM
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I think that everyone should ponder this question: why this cycle so far did not pan out as expected by almost EVERYBODY?
To some it might mean that the exponential boom-bust cycles are over.

To me it means that bitcoin is in transition: it has to go over the technological chasm from the early adopters to early majority.
The volatility in that is less than during "innovators" and "early adopters" stages, but still significant with periodic setbacks.

I am perfectly fine if the four year cycles are mostly gone and we are simply in a price discovery mode.
I expect the prices much higher eventually, but short term the price seems chaotic (does not really follow any prior predictions).
It zigs when it was "supposed" to zag, etc. This 'perversion' actually started in 2019, but most people dismissed it as a one-off aberration.

Remember "the fractal" idea? It fit for a while. All TA guys seem to be befuddled if not outright 'amused' by the current situation.
Albeit, we have no coherent theory of what to expect since S2F is currently on the brink...barely hugging the lower grey band.
planB did not throw in the towel yet, but it is getting close, unfortunately.
https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1472241754837557256


I like the way PlanB doubled down. And frankly, he has a ton brrrr-money on his side of the argument.

An EOY parabolic run was expected by the majority, so the market was inclined to go another direction.
Def. a sign that the known cycles start to change / vanish.

I think the next best chance of finding coherence with the previous cycles is the "spiral chart" with its delayed tops.

So the next 3-4 months might be interesting..

Edit:
Nice small candle. Let's see if it gets hammered down agin...
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December 21, 2021, 04:58:25 AM

So the next 3-4 months might be interesting are critically criticaltm..

FTFY
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December 21, 2021, 05:01:27 AM


Explanation
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December 21, 2021, 05:09:14 AM

I thought that my point had more to do with how much he was cashing out all at once.. which was 25%, and my whole speal was an attempt to show another way to justify how much to cash out, and my conclusion would have ended up with cashing out less than 1/4 what he did... ..

Yes, perhaps it is a mite much. But he still has 75% left (technically now 100% Wink ) and for the most part has significantly permanently upgraded his life (ignoring what was presumably ~1BTC or more on that bit of nonsense which is the flash car). It surely is magnificent to hold and watch the number go up but at the end of the day, there has to be some point to it. Though, personally, I'd much rather be using Bitcoin to make the purchases than "cashing out".
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December 21, 2021, 05:13:10 AM

This is bananas......










Combo breaker!

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December 21, 2021, 05:25:00 AM

Saved this one for some start of pumping...

As most "Tongo-Hits" the second half of the song is the best   Cool Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St32aLCNMmQ


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Finally: A Train!
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December 21, 2021, 06:01:37 AM


Explanation
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December 21, 2021, 06:28:15 AM

Saved this one for some start of pumping...

As most "Tongo-Hits" the second half of the song is the best   Cool Grin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St32aLCNMmQ




or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAyWN9ba9J8
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