Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[hmmkay]

Ive battled with the concept of eternal life since i was 8 and had a bad dream... I think it will be possible thru evolution wither technological or biological

Reincarnation with clear memory of previous lives is how it works. We're just not there/ready yet.

[SilenceOfTheLamb]

... Pigmy-like Negritos...

Racist!

https://derpicdn.net/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTMvMDgvMDkvMjBfMjVfNDdfMTE0XzM5NTgxMl9fc2FmZV9xdWVlbl9jaHJ5c2FsaXMiXV0/395812__safe_queen%2Bchrysalis.png

[BrewCrewFan]

Well good to see the bears used some bad news to cave the price a few days ago. I guess it was just used as an excuse to drive the price down because if the news was really all that bad we would be sub 225 me thinks. Instead holding steady @ 260 ish

[SilenceOfTheLamb]

...if the news was really all that bad we would be sub 225 me thinks...

Doesn't work like that (See: dead companies still trading on Havelock >0).  Takes time for folks to absorb the full hilarity of what they've done, man up & admit they're wrong.

[JorgeStolfi]

... Pigmy-like Negritos...

Racist!

Actually they are a most remarkable people, much more "optimized" than we are.  And they obviously know it:
[NSFW]https://web.archive.org/web/20080617201322/http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter1/Senti-man.jpg

[empowering]

I would not be surprised at all in the slightest, if the first human that will live to be 500 plus years old, is already alive today.

All that needs to happen is medical technology keeps them alive for the next 50 years, then in 50 years time the tech is around to keep them alive for another 50 years, at that point the technology should be around to keep the person alive another 50 years, at this point the person (assuming they are 30 now, will be 180 , in 150 years time I imagine we will have the tech to keep a 180 year old alive for another 100 years, and then another.


As for it not being desirable, or human, I believe it to be both.


Sure it will mean all sorts of changes for society and the way we live,  no doubt, some positive and some negative, and society will no doubt struggle to keep up, but that will not stop it from happening.


We have already done life extension, as a race, and we will of course without any doubt, continue to do so, and we will get better at it, and it is feasible it will happen in many of our lifetimes.

What happens when we can be loaded into virtual space, or loaded into an avatar?

If we can escape the effects of physical aging, or extend our healthy lifespan, or all together bypass death, then yes I can see the argument that we would become depressed, bored etc but I think this is akin to going back to pre neanderthal man, basically monkeys, and asking them what being a human would be like in the future,  the monkey would have no clue, and if you tried to explain french or art or physics etc to the monkey, the monkey would not have a clue what you are on about, literally the concepts would not fit.

Basically we would adapt, and evolve, as life does, we would create new education, new mechanisms, new understandings, new philosophy, new stages to life, it would change everything, but that has never ever stopped humans from doing anything, and that is not going to change now.

Life extension, to an extreme level, is pretty much inevitable, it is just a case of when, not if. I think it is all together a very common human desire to be alive and healthy, I think it is going to be possible to extend lifespan from a technological point of view. So when you couple those two facts together, you are just left with the WHEN we will get there, and not IF.  So really as a society we need to start working on ways to deal with this technology, and its implications for society/humanity.


I wonder how many young parents are aware that their child may live to be 100s of years old...

We may even, extend our own lives, to extreme levels,  if we can stay alive another 35- 50 years or so.


Personally I am totally up for it.

[empowering]

Ive battled with the concept of eternal life since i was 8 and had a bad dream... I think it will be possible thru evolution wither technological or biological

Biological and technological evolution are going to become one in the same thing (or you could say they always were the same thing)

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[SilenceOfTheLamb]

I would not be surprised at all in the slightest, if the first human that will live to be 500 plus years old, is already alive today.
...

http://www.michaelemberley.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/MaybeABearAteIt-web001.jpg

[empowering]

I would not be surprised at all in the slightest, if the first human that will live to be 500 plus years old, is already alive today.
...

lambystuff

fascinating....

[networthsigns]

Ive battled with the concept of eternal life since i was 8 and had a bad dream... I think it will be possible thru evolution wither technological or biological

Reincarnation with clear memory of previous lives is how it works. We're just not there/ready yet.

We are there now but they are the few spiritual masters who have found enlightenment, if you have ever read anything from the spiritual masters this is what they work towards their hole life, to travel the bardo's and be fully aware of ones self upon death and become enlightened at which point you can choose to come back to this plane of existence with full knowledge of all previous lives and teach others to do the same. If you seek you shall find we are there but only for those that work and achieve it.  

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I would not be surprised at all in the slightest, if the first human that will live to be 500 plus years old, is already alive today.
...

lambystuff

fascinating....

Kind of a ham-handed seque to be sure

[tarmi]

somebody buy those asks with leveraged money already.

please do it.

[12345mm]

i see a likely path towards extended life beginning with genetic manipulation prior to birth , basically turning off aging related genes , which is something that has been demonstrated already in lab settings - this might double individual human life expectancy , pushing us into the 150 yr land ... this would be possible within the relatively near future , say , 50-100 years or so , depending on general public sentiment / laws regarding human genome modification ... but wouldn't help anyone live longer who aren't embryos ... meanwhile advances in more traditional medicine the simple ability to treat ailments and diseases , the possibility to print or grow replacement organs might up that 150 to 200 ... beyond that , there really wouldn't be another option that wouldn't be "invasive" so we'd be looking first at internal cybernetics , since we kindof already have some advances in that department , pacemakers , artificial hips , etc - essentially you'd be looking at supplemental artificial organs to further extend life ... nano-tech to support cell function and immune system would probably be next , mostly because you could still look like a non-modified human being ... next up would be external cybernetics , depending on people's willingness to become more and more machine than man out of desire for extra years of life ... this could push life expectancy anywhere from 300-1000 years ... who knows how long it'd take to develop tech like that ... but at some point you'd resemble a head on a robot/cyborg body , more or less... the step of mapping every neuron and the movement of all the electrical impulses of a human brain in real time AND having the ability to transfer a copy of that exact pattern into a sufficiently advanced artificial brain is probably the furthest down the timeline , by a lot ... probably none of us will ever see the day that any of these possibilities becomes a reality , with the possible exception of having great grandchildren that'll live to be 150 ...

[Boooooooooring]

http://www.bigskywords.com/uploads/1/2/8/0/12804055/6951653_orig.jpg?230

[empowering]

"Waste and stupidity get you the worst, that’s what he said. Use this time and it’ll temper you. Now’s the hardest test—not letting rage and frustration keep you from thinking. It’s the core of whether you can command or not.”

[macsga]

i see a likely path towards extended life beginning with genetic manipulation prior to birth , basically turning off aging related genes , which is something that has been demonstrated already in lab settings - this might double individual human life expectancy , pushing us into the 150 yr land ... this would be possible within the relatively near future , say , 50-100 years or so , depending on general public sentiment / laws regarding human genome modification ... but wouldn't help anyone live longer who aren't embryos ... meanwhile advances in more traditional medicine the simple ability to treat ailments and diseases , the possibility to print or grow replacement organs might up that 150 to 200 ... beyond that , there really wouldn't be another option that wouldn't be "invasive" so we'd be looking first at internal cybernetics , since we kindof already have some advances in that department , pacemakers , artificial hips , etc - essentially you'd be looking at supplemental artificial organs to further extend life ... nano-tech to support cell function and immune system would probably be next , mostly because you could still look like a non-modified human being ... next up would be external cybernetics , depending on people's willingness to become more and more machine than man out of desire for extra years of life ... this could push life expectancy anywhere from 300-1000 years ... who knows how long it'd take to develop tech like that ... but at some point you'd resemble a head on a robot/cyborg body , more or less... the step of mapping every neuron and the movement of all the electrical impulses of a human brain in real time AND having the ability to transfer a copy of that exact pattern into a sufficiently advanced artificial brain is probably the furthest down the timeline , by a lot ... probably none of us will ever see the day that any of these possibilities becomes a reality , with the possible exception of having great grandchildren that'll live to be 150 ...

I totally disagree.

I tend to disagree with the majority of arguments that are posted there. This is either posted by a man that hasn't been reading the (scientific) news since 1960, or refuses to accept them. Seriously man, WTF! There is a button on the keyboard called "ENTER". Look (I will press it now 2 times):


You see? This is called a paragraph! (I will now press it another time)

Yet another paragraph! Please use it the next time, it's getting really hard to follow up with your comments FGS!  

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Natural evolution does not "want" eternal organisms, not even eternal species; it "wants" life to constantly evolve.
Death is a feature, not a bug.  It evolved in the last billion years together with sex and reproduction, as a way to clear up space for new individuals.

You provide no arguments that eternal youthfulness is not feasible, you only state that it is indesirable for a species.

I would not say "undesirable".  I put "want" in quotes because species and natural evolution have no desires (thanks Lamb for seeing that  )  It is just that being mortal is part of being what we are.  

Yes, and 'being unable to fly' is part of what we are, ... until it isn't.  You seem very keen on keeping things like they are, even if they are undesirable.

Personally, I think it is very desirable for an individual, and probably for society as well.

It may be hard to believe, but, after a certain point in life, that desire usually goes away.

Perhaps if your body was youthful and energetic, you would reconsider that point.  Also, if people really didn't want to be alive, it's easy enough to blow your brains out.  I can't help but notice that most people don't do this, which seems to suggest they value being alive.

But yes, we generally hate succumbing to old age and death, just like we hate getting sick and weak.  That wish must be a naturally evolved trait too, like "you must leave soon, but, as long as you are here, you must try to be as useful as you can" --- and that includes remaining as fit and healthy as you can.

It is not different from how companies treat their older employees.  Indeed, retirement is the corporate version of natural death.  It was invented not for the good of the individual, but for the good of the company: a barely delicate way to remove the old guys whom no one dares to fire, and open space for new blood.

There is that " Everything is as it should be" thinking again.  Like we are now evolved into a perfect end state, I don't buy it.
If people didn't get old, they would be able to keep functioning in their company, and there would be no need to fire them.

A finite lifetime is nature's solution to make space for new individuals.  Aging is a consequence of that.

I think you have things backwards.  There is no planned design to remove old individuals.

Your reasonings sound like rationalisations to calm the mind to me ("I shouldn't worry, everything is as it should be, everything has a reason")

Not at all. I am as unhappy at getting old as anyone else.  I am just pointing out that eternal youth (which implies eternal life) is a rather complicated concept, perhaps a meaningless one.
Does it make sense to wish for a car that will last forever?
Does it make sense to wish for your dear Volkswagen Beetle to last forever?

My Volkswagen Beetle has no consciousness.  Replace Volkswagen with a pet dog, and then yes, I would want it to live forever.  
You also seem to be under the impression that biological change is no longer possible if we would acquire eternal youth.  I would say that current and future biotech advances will allow us to adapt much more quickly to our environment than was previously possible (although it might be harder to adapt an existing organism than to engineer a new one from scratch).

I can only repeat that you don't give any arguments that eternal youth is infeasible, you just argue that it is better for the species if individuals die off.  
I would argue that people make decisions as individuals, so your musings are irrelevant.

[empowering]

Natural evolution does not "want" eternal organisms, not even eternal species; it "wants" life to constantly evolve.
Death is a feature, not a bug.  It evolved in the last billion years together with sex and reproduction, as a way to clear up space for new individuals.

You provide no arguments that eternal youthfulness is not feasible, you only state that it is indesirable for a species.

I would not say "undesirable".  I put "want" in quotes because species and natural evolution have no desires (thanks Lamb for seeing that  )  It is just that being mortal is part of being what we are.  

Yes, and 'being unable to fly' is part of what we are, ... until it isn't.  You seem very keen on keeping things like they are, even if they are undesirable.

Personally, I think it is very desirable for an individual, and probably for society as well.

It may be hard to believe, but, after a certain point in life, that desire usually goes away.

Perhaps if your body was youthful and energetic, you would reconsider that point.  Also, if people really didn't want to be alive, it's easy enough to blow your brains out.  I can't help but notice that most people don't do this, which seems to suggest they value being alive.

But yes, we generally hate succumbing to old age and death, just like we hate getting sick and weak.  That wish must be a naturally evolved trait too, like "you must leave soon, but, as long as you are here, you must try to be as useful as you can" --- and that includes remaining as fit and healthy as you can.

It is not different from how companies treat their older employees.  Indeed, retirement is the corporate version of natural death.  It was invented not for the good of the individual, but for the good of the company: a barely delicate way to remove the old guys whom no one dares to fire, and open space for new blood.

There is that " Everything is as it should be" thinking again.  Like we are now evolved into a perfect end state, I don't buy it.
If people didn't get old, they would be able to keep functioning in their company, and there would be no need to fire them.

A finite lifetime is nature's solution to make space for new individuals.  Aging is a consequence of that.

I think you have things backwards.  There is no planned design to remove old individuals.

Your reasonings sound like rationalisations to calm the mind to me ("I shouldn't worry, everything is as it should be, everything has a reason")

Not at all. I am as unhappy at getting old as anyone else.  I am just pointing out that eternal youth (which implies eternal life) is a rather complicated concept, perhaps a meaningless one.
Does it make sense to wish for a car that will last forever?
Does it make sense to wish for your dear Volkswagen Beetle to last forever?

My Volkswagen Beetle has no consciousness.  Replace Volkswagen with a pet dog, and then yes, I would want it to live forever.  
You also seem to be under the impression that biological change is no longer possible if we would acquire eternal youth.  I would say that current and future biotech advances will allow us to adapt much more quickly to our environment than was previously possible (although it might be harder to adapt an existing organism than to engineer a new one from scratch).

I can only repeat that you don't give any arguments that eternal youth is infeasible, you just argue that it is better for the species if individuals die off.  
I would argue that people make decisions as individuals, so your musings are irrelevant.

 

[empowering]

...

You are the Dancing Queen, young and sweet, only seventeen
Dancing Queen, feel the beat from the tambourine oh yeah
You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, diggin' the Dancing Queen

Mr. empowering, you're trying to seduce me. Aren't you?

you got it sweet cheeks