Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[AlexGR]

The market overreacted and, at peak, we got ~1/3 of the marketcap wiped out. You can't have a 60mn theft taking billions of the marketcap - it's irrational.

I don't believe market cap is a rational way to get the measure of anything, especially something as thinly traded as Bitcoin, let alone alts.

The marketcap may not make sense for small players, but it does for large players as it creates internal hedges within the market.

[Dafar]

Kim Dotcom says he has the answer to bitcoin’s ‘civil war’ and will soon give it to the world.

I'm getting very exited about Kim's ''scaling'' solution what he calls; Bitcache for his Megaupload 2.0.

He also thinks that the price wil rocket to $2000 in 2017, which i think he is right even without his groundbreaking innovation.

http://qz.com/751533/kim-dotcom-says-he-has-the-answer-to-bitcoins-civil-war-and-will-soon-give-it-to-the-world/

Fucking lol... this guy is straight from a movie.


So he has his own scaling solution huh? That's cool, I was wondering how he hopes to include micro transactions in btc for all file transfers






BASED KIM DOT COM!

[gentlemand]

ALL blockchain limitations? What does an enormous German file magnate know that others don't? Does he employ anyone to work on this type of thing? If so, why haven't we heard any squeaks before?

[savetherainforest]

ALL blockchain limitations? What does an enormous German file magnate know that others don't? Does he employ anyone to work on this type of thing? If so, why haven't we heard any squeaks before?

There was Vice episode made specially for him in New Zealand where he was on house arrest on his estate that had a golf course and all that sh!t.. that place was huge!!! ... sigh... "house arrest"  


And  he is the kind of guy that puts others to do stuff for him... he doesn't seem to do much on his own... maybe eat and exercise... and pay hookers to F' him!... He's so fat he can't even move his ass properly.

[gentlemand]

And  he is the kind of guy that puts others to do stuff for him... he doesn't seem to do much on his own... maybe eat and exercise... and pay hookers to F' him!... He's so fat he can't even move his ass properly.

I saw that too. I suspect that his employees put him on his feet for the filmed segments and pulled him around with invisible fishing lines. As soon as the cameras stopped rolling he was slipped back into his anti gravity harness. I doubt he can feed himself either. Still, he would make for a fun neighbour.

[Dafar]

Resorting to fat-shaming now? Are we jealous of his riches?


I'm pretty sure the dude is a talented coder and created megaupload himself

[foggyb]

Resorting to fat-shaming now? Are we jealous of his riches?


I'm pretty sure the dude is a talented coder and created megaupload himself

All I see is: this user is ignored.

[infofront]

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. He's often full of bluster, but also brilliant and eccentric.

[gentlemand]

Resorting to fat-shaming now? Are we jealous of his riches?


I'm pretty sure the dude is a talented coder and created megaupload himself

Hey, I'm sure he's got far more intellect, let alone finances, than my modest self. I still think he could afford to pack more tastiness into less calories. I'm intrigued to see what he comes up with.

[savetherainforest]

Resorting to fat-shaming now? Are we jealous of his riches?


I'm pretty sure the dude is a talented coder and created megaupload himself

All I see is: this user is ignored.

HaHa ... you feeling his jew power??... or what??




He said the word "german", his instinct was to send you straight to nazi germany...  

But I guess the feeling is mutual for both of you...

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Resorting to fat-shaming now? Are we jealous of his riches?

No, we are envious of people who post better fat-shaming posts than we do.

Guy clearly doesn't have self-esteem or body image problems - he put "mega" in his brand.

(on a more pr0n/hooker tangent, perhaps there's something else to the "mega upload" nickname)

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Seems we're going sideways again but at much lower volumes.

We're almost exactly where we were at this time yesterday.

I think many people are still digesting the Finex hack and waiting to see how things turn out.

As I said yesterday, we're about where we probably would have ended up without the hack, considering that the price had been going down for a few days anyway.

Bitcoinaverage is still hovering around $580.

[JayJuanGee]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d64ow17

socialized losses for bitcoin and loans to btc/usd positions. guess we'll know the full facts in a few hours.

Thanks for that link ECB...    The post pretty much states that Bitfinex is going to make a more official update tomorrow, but in the meantime, like you said, Bitfinex is considering a way to socialize losses amongst Bitfinex BTC holders.

 I don't really have a problem with socialized loss in the sense that Bitfinex would later pay back those "losers"... yet, I believe that they are not considering paying back the "losers"...

 I think that it is a bit irresponsible to cause the users to hold the bag... and even though we are finding out some details, we still have to wait for more specifics, which seems to be scheduled to come out tomorrow.

Really the best option for everyone. Other option is to go belly up and then after 4yrs and a bunch of attorney fees you might see some distributions (see Gox). Assuming there'd be a full investigation and it wasn't internal job etc...

We are likely a bit too much speculation regarding various details at the moment because Bitfinex has only provided a rough outline of their intentions - and they also provided one side of the balance sheet without providing some kind of indication of the other side of the balance sheet, which would likely be disclosed in more detail later today.

I guess part of what I am saying, here, is that in order to attempt to achieve more confidence from current account holders and future account holders, they have to disclose enough details in order to inspire some confidence that they are being reasonable. 

I don't think that we can come to any kind of conclusion regarding what is best if we do not have some more disclosure, and likely, since they are not a public company, they are going to be somewhat sparse with the level of their disclosure... in other words, they will be disclosing mostly from an attempt to retain business rather than any kind of actual obligation to disclose.

One last point, Bitfinex is already somewhat known for being a bit shady; however, so far (at least up until this latest incident), their shadiness had not prevented them from accumulating a lot of bitcoins in their trust and to build a large volume of USD/BTC trade.  Maybe some of that trade is fake, but it is likely a lot more representative of reality than some of the other chinese exchanges (Ok coin and Huobi, for example).  So, their known shadiness causes me to speculate that they are continue to be less than fully transparent, and so no matter what there are going to continue to be theories and speculation regarding whether some of this is an inside job, and perhaps if they do not propose some kind of publicly acceptable plan forward with sufficient details, their history along with this latest incident and perhaps inadequate plan will contribute towards their demise.  I remain with my proposition that the most likely appropriate plan forward is to at least attempt to show that they are coming really close to fully compensating all affected users - otherwise they will lose credibility from the big investors.  They don't actually have to carry out such plan, merely just put forth such plan to create such an impression that they plan to fully compensate (or close to fully compensate) everyone who was negatively affected.

[BitofaN1]

Since Bitfinex knows all of the attacker's addresses, couldn't they try to convince the top pool's operators to blacklist them? Wouldn't that be one of the "advantages" of ultra centralized mining?

[JayJuanGee]

Price seems to have settled in the $565-$575 range after the Bitfinex hack. I wonder which way we'll go next, feels a bit uneasy waiting for the next move after such a crash.

I waiting for the China miners to announce say a 8mb block fork on Friday just to round
 out the week. That could make Bitcoin go pear shaped in a big way. 2014 180 used coin redux

FML

You  have been reading too much of the bullshit hardfork propaganda.

Yeah we could suffer some more mini-bitcoin-blackswan events, just to screw us up, but these hardforking scenarios seem totally implausible given the Ethereum fiasco and also that Seg wit is on the verge of going live.. no significant economic interest or major player is either going to attempt to hardfork or attempt to increase the blocksize limit prior to this pending seg wit.... .. there is no real need nor emergency in bitcoin to justify any of these kinds of rash behaviors.. not from actual meaningful players - but there could be FUCD spreading attempts in order to attempt to take advantage of already existing negative events (Bitfinex), that's for sure.

[JimboToronto]

I don't know if this has been posted here or not but everyone should be aware.

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/warning-beware-phishing-emails/

Check out the bad grammar and syntax, typical of phishers.

[DaRude]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4vtv1m/bitfinex_down_due_to_bitcoin_security_breach/d64ow17

socialized losses for bitcoin and loans to btc/usd positions. guess we'll know the full facts in a few hours.

Thanks for that link ECB...    The post pretty much states that Bitfinex is going to make a more official update tomorrow, but in the meantime, like you said, Bitfinex is considering a way to socialize losses amongst Bitfinex BTC holders.

 I don't really have a problem with socialized loss in the sense that Bitfinex would later pay back those "losers"... yet, I believe that they are not considering paying back the "losers"...

 I think that it is a bit irresponsible to cause the users to hold the bag... and even though we are finding out some details, we still have to wait for more specifics, which seems to be scheduled to come out tomorrow.

Really the best option for everyone. Other option is to go belly up and then after 4yrs and a bunch of attorney fees you might see some distributions (see Gox). Assuming there'd be a full investigation and it wasn't internal job etc...

We are likely a bit too much speculation regarding various details at the moment because Bitfinex has only provided a rough outline of their intentions - and they also provided one side of the balance sheet without providing some kind of indication of the other side of the balance sheet, which would likely be disclosed in more detail later today.

I guess part of what I am saying, here, is that in order to attempt to achieve more confidence from current account holders and future account holders, they have to disclose enough details in order to inspire some confidence that they are being reasonable.  

I don't think that we can come to any kind of conclusion regarding what is best if we do not have some more disclosure, and likely, since they are not a public company, they are going to be somewhat sparse with the level of their disclosure... in other words, they will be disclosing mostly from an attempt to retain business rather than any kind of actual obligation to disclose.

One last point, Bitfinex is already somewhat known for being a bit shady; however, so far (at least up until this latest incident), their shadiness had not prevented them from accumulating a lot of bitcoins in their trust and to build a large volume of USD/BTC trade.  Maybe some of that trade is fake, but it is likely a lot more representative of reality than some of the other chinese exchanges (Ok coin and Huobi, for example).  So, their known shadiness causes me to speculate that they are continue to be less than fully transparent, and so no matter what there are going to continue to be theories and speculation regarding whether some of this is an inside job, and perhaps if they do not propose some kind of publicly acceptable plan forward with sufficient details, their history along with this latest incident and perhaps inadequate plan will contribute towards their demise.  I remain with my proposition that the most likely appropriate plan forward is to at least attempt to show that they are coming really close to fully compensating all affected users - otherwise they will lose credibility from the big investors.  They don't actually have to carry out such plan, merely just put forth such plan to create such an impression that they plan to fully compensate (or close to fully compensate) everyone who was negatively affected.

They really don't have many option. Coins are gone, either they make everyone whole, compromise, or declare bankruptcy. Those are really all your options.

As far as compromise need to find a thin line between appeasing pissed off investors and staying solvent. They were THE LARGES BTC/USD exchange by volume so all that talk about loosing trust is irrelevant/FUD sure some trust was lost but clearly not enough to have much effect judging by their volume which i believe to be pretty accurate.

As far as giving everyone a haircut without issuing IOUs or finexcoins with a plan to repay is also suicidal, that's pretty much a definition of being insolvent. So naturally come to the same conclusion as cryptsy in the similar situation. Everyone gets an IOU coins

[Gyrsur]

I don't know if this has been posted here or not but everyone should be aware.

http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/warning-beware-phishing-emails/

Check out the bad grammar and syntax, typical of phishers.

they are happy to have something to write because nothing substantial was told until now!

[JayJuanGee]

The market overreacted and, at peak, we got ~1/3 of the marketcap wiped out. You can't have a 60mn theft taking billions of the marketcap - it's irrational.

I don't believe market cap is a rational way to get the measure of anything, especially something as thinly traded as Bitcoin, let alone alts.

What do you use to measure then?  Market cap is better than unit value, in my opinion, but it is also a very incomplete measurement, I would agree with that.. for example, measuring various aspects of development and fundamentals like security through hashing power and ways in which the asset contributes and has the potential to contribute.

[Holliday]

Since Bitfinex knows all of the attacker's addresses, couldn't they try to convince the top pool's operators to blacklist them? Wouldn't that be one of the "advantages" of ultra centralized mining?

So, lets play this out.

The top pools decide to blacklist the BitFinex theft addresses (BFTA). Let's say the top 5. Looking at bc.info (I know it's not the best place to get info but whatever), the top 5 pools have about 70.6% of the hash rate over the past 4 days. So any blocks created by them will not include transactions from the BFTA.

But wait, there is still @30% of the network to deal with. As soon as they find a block, transactions from the BFTA are included.

Never fear, the top 5 pools aren't finished yet! They ignore blocks from the puny 30% and refuse to build on them. Now we have miners 51% "attacking" the Bitcoin network to blacklist some coins. I'm sure that won't cause any problems.

The thief probably isn't stupid either. He starts including huge miner's fees (multiple bitcoins per transaction) to include his transactions in the block chain. The small pools keep building their chain earning tons of bitcoins from fees (which are melted into the coinbase rewards). The smaller miners start upping their hash power with their new found income!

We now have two viable chains. One with fungibility, one without. Hey, Bitcoin is like Ethereum now! Exchanges list both coins (they love getting those trading fees, don't they)! BTCa and BTCb can be traded against each other. The free market decides which properties are more valuable. Hilarity ensues.

Hey, after this, we can hard fork both forks with bigger blocks and have four chains. BTCa1mb4eva, BTCa8mb, BTCb1mb4eva, BTCb8mb. The more the merrier!

I can't wait for miners to decide to fuck with the network over some contentious issue. I'm sure, as businessmen, they are ready to assume the risk that they will be mining worthless tokens in the hopes of picking the chain that the market prefers! No risk, no reward, amirite?