Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[oda.krell]

Coinseeker, you went from 'usually interesting to read' to 'ubertroll' in less than 48 hours. That must be a new record.

[dexX7]

lol I have a feeling that Gox really is kinda incompetent. Bias aside. I'm wondering why only Dwolla got frozen or is there something we don't know about yet?

Nevertheless. I'm happy to have a reasonable explaination.

[Quantum_Negatum]

Yesterday was just a precursor. The real panic selling has yet to begin.

[ErisDiscordia]

Looks to me that since the Bitcoin community hasn't been able to do anything about the huge centralization embodied by Gox the US government has now kindly stepped in and is about to force to community to come up with more decentralized solutions! Thanks uncle Sam, you wise old bastard! You know that us talking monkeys come up with the best tricks when under pressure.

[Coinseeker]

We do have a solution, it's called Ripple.  Ripple will legitimize the BTC but not before we see double digits again.

[nagnagnag2]

ask: 114.82001
bid: 114.82000

[BitPirate]

Yesterday's troll was just a precursor. The real trolling has yet to begin.

Fixed that for you.

[Kazu]

ask: 114.82001
bid: 114.82000

Nice spread you got there.

[dexX7]

I don't have enough knowledge, but could it be that this "Money Services Business (MSB) Accounts, Identification of an MSB Customer" filled by Gox 2011 lost his legitimation or correctness after the recent FinCEN guidelines? I'm not even sure, if they define BTC as currency. Would love to hear some more details, if relevant.

[Sitarow]

And the hits just keep on coming.  

In the warrant, a special agent with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), states that there's probable cause to believe Mt. Gox is engaging in "money transmitting" without a license, a crime punishable by a fine or up to five years in prison. The warrant goes on to demand that Dwolla hand over the keys to account number 812-649-1010, which is owned by Mt. Gox subsidiary Mutum Sigillum LLC.

And this is the real killer:

Homeland Security used a confidential informant, based in Maryland, to conduct the investigation. The informant simply created accounts with Dwolla and Mt. Gox, bought bitcoins, and then changed them back into dollars. Tracing that money, HSI was able to see that the money passed through a Wells Fargo account, number 7657841313, which was created by a single authorized singer: Mark Karpeles, the president and CEO of Mt. Gox. The account shows transfers to Dwolla going back to at least December 2011, according to the warrant.

See ya at the bottom!  

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/feds-reveal-the-search-warrant-that-seized-mt-gox-account/
 

Money transmitting businesses are required by 31 USC section 5330 to register as such with FinCEN.

MtGox US LLC may have dropped the ball with their Dwolla account linked to their US company acting as a US to BTC gateway and not being registered with FinCEN.

However other exchanges have already done this.

Cavirtex for one and has an IPO that had sold out in 12 hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvELpQ83ApA&feature=youtu.be

SO your claims are nothing but speculation only to serve your self admitted agenda of having btc price drop for what ever reason only you know.

[fitty]

I don't have enough knowledge, but could it be that this "Money Services Business (MSB) Accounts, Identification of an MSB Customer" filled by Gox 2011 lost his legitimation or correctness after the recent FinCEN guidelines? I'm not even sure, if they define BTC as currency. Would love to hear some more details, if relevant.

It sounds like a lawyer fail on MtGox's part. The DHS knows about CampBX, they do the same thing (also through Dwolla). If this is all because they didn't properly setup/register the LLC, it's even less of a big deal then anyone could have expected. They'll probably pay a fine and pay some lawyers to set things up properly. Clearly the DHS isn't after Bitcoin or trying to shut down MtGox. The company MtGox setup in the USA was poorly planned/executed and got them in hot water. I'd imagine this gets resolved within a few months.

[Piper67]

I don't have enough knowledge, but could it be that this "Money Services Business (MSB) Accounts, Identification of an MSB Customer" filled by Gox 2011 lost his legitimation or correctness after the recent FinCEN guidelines? I'm not even sure, if they define BTC as currency. Would love to hear some more details, if relevant.

It sounds like a lawyer fail on MtGox's part. The DHS knows about CampBX, they do the same thing (also through Dwolla). If this is all because they didn't properly setup/register the LLC, it's even less of a big deal then anyone could have expected. They'll probably pay a fine and pay some lawyers to set things up properly. Clearly the DHS isn't after Bitcoin or trying to shut down MtGox. The company MtGox setup in the USA was poorly planned/executed and got them in hot water. I'd imagine this gets resolved within a few months.

If I were a betting man I'd bet that the ICE agent in question:

a) Is trying to buy a shitload of BTC, or

b) Has a stake in CampBX

 

[gizmoh]

Yesterday was just a precursor. The real panic selling has yet to begin.

Agreed, as much as i'd like bitcoin to grow, this is looking bad in terms of bitcoin pricing. As most are in here for profit taking in fiat(at least for the short term), a us agency categorizing the main exchange (and eventually all US based exchanges) as money launderer will scare off Vc's, traders and the masses. The inflow of money will be drastically reduced making the current price unsustainable once the bulls cant keep it up.

[ShroomsKit]

I also can guarantee anything I want.  I'll double down on it. I GUARANTEE THIS PRICE IS GOING TO DOUBLE DIGITS!  

i hope so!

Really? Why?

[Coinseeker]

Yesterday was just a precursor. The real panic selling has yet to begin.

Agreed, as much as i'd like bitcoin to grow, this is looking bad in terms of bitcoin pricing. As most are in here for profit taking in fiat(at least for the short term), a us agency categorizing the main exchange (and eventually all US based exchanges) as money launderer will scare off Vc's, traders and the masses. The inflow of money will be drastically reduced making the current price unsustainable once the bulls cant keep it up.

Bingo! 

[adamstgBit]

I also can guarantee anything I want.  I'll double down on it. I GUARANTEE THIS PRICE IS GOING TO DOUBLE DIGITS!  

i hope so!

Really? Why?

sending money to virtex

[Ultraviolet]

Enduring an assault by the Government on Bitcoin is an inevitability. If it passes the test, BTC will become a household name with widespread adoption. If it fails the test, it will be relegated to black market style dealings.

Really, the test has more to do with Bitcoin businesses doing everything on the above board. The Bitcoin protocol is fundamentally solid and good, and this is why BTC has a very large chance to survive.

If Gox lied about being a money transmitter in one account, what about all the others? The problem is non-trivial.

[dexX7]

After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine.

Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected.

[fitty]

After reading the seizure warrent, I'd say: not a huge deal. They target US based money supply. Even the seized banking account at Wells Fargo was only filled with Dwolla cash, which was sent to Japan. It seems Dwolla was the only critical part. As (hopefully) the other funding options (i.e. wire transfer) aren't linked to US accounts, it should be fine.

Lesson learned today: if you want to do business in the US, you have to do proper US paperwork. And tbh this isn't something unexpected.

Even better news, it had nothing to do with Bitcoin. They were exchanging "something" for USD. It doesn't matter what. They were not properly registered as a money services company. MtGox is incompetent. The US Govt isn't after Bitcoin. CoinLab probably told on them, and they got in trouble for fucking up their MSB registration.

In terms of Bitcoin, pretty much a non-story. MtGox is a joke, that we already knew. They'll probably pay a fine and re-submit the proper forms. Might be costly, but hey they have 50-100M of our fiat they can pay the fine I'm sure.  

[prof7bit]