Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BayAreaCoins]

Not sure why the price is going down... $40 fees are the future.  

I am bullish in Bitcoin fees. Now I just need to find where to trade some futures for it.

Price goes down but fees goes up. This is the future of money!

Actually fees are going down atm.

Even if they do go down... the trust and faith are gone from a lot of users with the way things are set up right now.

Something needs to change in my opinion.

If Bitcoin can't be used economically in a vending machine... there is a problem.

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[Globb0]

A gold bar vending machine

[JayJuanGee]

Not sure why the price is going down... $40 fees are the future.  

I am bullish in Bitcoin fees. Now I just need to find where to trade some futures for it.

Price goes down but fees goes up. This is the future of money!

Actually fees are going down atm.

Even if they do go down... the trust and faith are gone from a lot of users with the way things are set up right now.

Something needs to change in my opinion.

If Bitcoin can't be used economically in a vending machine... there is a problem.

The problem is that either you are retarded or you are merely playing dumb on purpose in order to play the WO troller/corporate shill/bitcoin denigration game.


In order to have value and a variety of use cases, Bitcoin does not need to be used to buy candy bars at this time, as you are wanting to argue such nonsense in order to attempt to suggest that bitcoin has to be a one stop shopping for every fucking single purpose in order to have value.  Seems quite likely that in the future bitcoin will have increasing use cases, but not necessarily covering all payment methodologies at this time, you fucking nut job.

The point is that there are a lot of use cases for bitcoin - even currently, and some use cases are likely removed when transaction fees go up from less than a $1 to $50 or some variance.  Some of the use cases disappear temporarily, and sure it is possible that some of those might even have disappeared permanently.  We do not know yet because we do not know the future; however, we do know that bitcoin continues to be developed, various other cryptos continue to be developed, and surely amongst various cryptos there may be some praticality to buy a candy bar with one or more of them - if not I don't mind using cash, or a credit card or some kind of debit card for such a purchase, if I were to feel inclined to buy crap like that - which is not good for your health, by the way.  

[BayAreaCoins]

<nonsense>

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

Satoshi would not have wasted his time answering such a question if it was not in his original mind frame.

Great quote from that link too "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

[TERA2]

[BayAreaCoins]

<nonsense>

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

Satoshi would not have wasted his time answering such a question if it was not in his original mind frame.

Great quote from that link too "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

I mean that link alone says more than anything I could or would ever need to say... something needs to change to regain market confidence in my opinion.

LOL good one!

Or fucking Poloniex 

[JayJuanGee]

<nonsense>

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

Satoshi would not have wasted his time answering such a question if it was not in his original mind frame.

Great quote from that link too "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

Don't be trying to act as if you are some kind of enlightened one and you are appealing to Satoshi's original vision with your attempts to impose your own values about what bitcoin should be.  Bitcoin has evolved into something that you seem to not like, and it is being worked on.  If you do not like bitcoin, find some other thing to invest in.  I am not sure about what your supposed point is to come into this thread and to spout off patronizing nonsense, as if you supposedly know something that others here do not.

You are merely a party pooper and a negative nancy, who  focuses on some narrow construct attempting to impose your values onto other people and seemingly out of touch, for that matter, too.

[TERA2]

I have a bunch of altcoin profits stuck on Polo because of their small withdrawal limits and nonresponsive support to raise my limit and I'm scared to death

[JayJuanGee]

<nonsense>

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

Satoshi would not have wasted his time answering such a question if it was not in his original mind frame.

Great quote from that link too "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

I mean that link alone says more than anything I could or would ever need to say... something needs to change to regain market confidence in my opinion.

In other words, you are appealing to authority and not really saying anything, and therefore, you have to rely on what was said somewhere else because you cannot express anything specifically applicable to today and now, except whining and wishing that the "ought" were the "is." 

Yes, a lot of us wish a lot of things, but practical people deal with the "is", and even if they aspire to the "ought" they recognize that the "is" and the "ought" are two different things, and it they want to attempt to cause the "ought" they work towards that direction, rather than continuously whining that the "is" is not the same as the "ought."

[BayAreaCoins]

Don't be trying to act as if you are some kind of enlightened one and you are appealing to Satoshi's original vision with your attempts to impose your own values about what bitcoin should be.  

I'm just trying to use Bitcoin... the only one acting is you.

Bitcoin has evolved into something that you seem to not like, and it is being worked on.

It's not working... it's fucking losing steam because of people like you.

I'm not exactly sure what you are playing at, but you talk about how it's working out of one part of your keyboard and spam attacks on the other part.  I agree with you on Bitcoin being attacked.

If you do not like bitcoin, find some other thing to invest in.  I am not sure about what your supposed point is to come into this thread and to spout off patronizing nonsense, as if you supposedly know something that others here do not.

Don't worry about my investments... lets worry about our investment.

Our investment is working like shit right now.  I think investors should be aware because a lot of peoples coins never move off Coinbase sadly.

You are merely a party pooper and a negative nancy, who  focuses on some narrow construct attempting to impose your values onto other people and seemingly out of touch, for that matter, too.

Hardly the truth.  I'm as happy as anyone else about all this new wealth introduced into Cryptocurrency, but I'm not so happy that I'm going to be blind to getting robbed through fees... be it miner spam, Verr spam, Verr friend spam, lulz teen spam or anything else.  This is peoples money we are fucking with and when you make it a bitcoin for people to get their money... well... you get fucking Bitcoin Cash.

[ivomm]

I like this guy:

https://twitter.com/CNBCFastMoney/status/944341675119218689

[fabiorem]

I'm all for a block size increase to 2mb. I just think that 8mb, as proposed by BCash, is too much, and will create more problems in the future, such as centralized nodes.

Lightning network is just one of many sidechains, and one which will atract institutional investors. I hope that in the future we will have lots of different sidechains, each for a function: one to buy a coffee, one for settlement between banks, one to buy cars, one to buy real estate, and each will have its own limits, and its own fees.

[BayAreaCoins]

I'm all for a block size increase to 2mb. I just think that 8mb, as proposed by BCash, is too much, and will create more problems in the future, such as centralized nodes.

I agree... start slow and move up.

Just do something.

[Searing]

Ack!

Fricking, Bitcoin Hoard, must have overheard me saying "I wanted to go south for the Winter" ..Immediately, thought I was going to dump the hoard

and my BTC just "went south" instead

damn it, not what I meant! I meant me and some of the BTC would go south and party together

frigging  BTC hoard is miffed....just goes south in a miff....sheesh...

there is a diff between 'going south for the winter' and just "my BTC is going south"

don't laugh, I know you all talk to your BTC hoards as well, you can't-fool me!

(wanders off mumbling about needing more cats if BTC has gone south..what is gonna keep me warm..in this crypto winter)

I'm all for a block size increase to 2mb. I just think that 8mb, as proposed by BCash, is too much, and will create more problems in the future, such as centralized nodes.

Lightning network is just one of many sidechains, and one which will atract institutional investors. I hope that in the future we will have lots of different sidechains, each for a function: one to buy a coffee, one for settlement between banks, one to buy cars, one to buy real estate, and each will have its own limits, and its own fees.

Yeah, kinda wondering how many fiddles the devs of bitcoin core ordered to play while the crypto version of 'Rome Burns' is going on....

I mean, we gonna wait another year for something to scale this beast so the transaction fees are down....they would be better off tossing in the towel and ADD

a hard fork 2mb to 8mb increase, imho..sure would be a mess of work...but damn, would show there was some frigging hope of moving things along

I mean, they just plan act like they don't give a f*ck and the BTC fork folk lie about how much they love us all, as they spam the hell out of the btc network

so my choice is evil that works with low transaction fees (BCH) or idealism that does not work for transactions because they can't get off their ass and make a solution

w/o fretting about it...put a frigging hard fork in place...fix it to work better later with lightning...I mean BCH is as of now 1/3 of BTC's worth..get a clue

[alexeft]

I'm all for a block size increase to 2mb. I just think that 8mb, as proposed by BCash, is too much, and will create more problems in the future, such as centralized nodes.

Lightning network is just one of many sidechains, and one which will atract institutional investors. I hope that in the future we will have lots of different sidechains, each for a function: one to buy a coffee, one for settlement between banks, one to buy cars, one to buy real estate, and each will have its own limits, and its own fees.

And I say 2.456745645 or 1.823456345634 . Why is it two? And once we start, where do we stop?

Enough with the gut feelings! First time we got some real traffic, we're gonna expand the shop? And then what? Store endless cheap spam for eternity?

No thanks!

[AlexGR]

In order to have value and a variety of use cases, Bitcoin does not need to be used to buy candy bars at this time, as you are wanting to argue such nonsense in order to attempt to suggest that bitcoin has to be a one stop shopping for every fucking single purpose in order to have value.  Seems quite likely that in the future bitcoin will have increasing use cases, but not necessarily covering all payment methodologies at this time, you fucking nut job.

Adding to that, gold is a store-of-value metal, having value by simply sitting around looking shiny. Some would say it does nothing, but when it is sitting it is actually *used* for its store of value property. And we are talking about 8 trillion in marketcap with zero online transaction capability.

Assuming metcalfe law is valid for calculating a cryptocurrency's network worth, there are two things to keep in mind:

a) Transactions that are occurring, that demonstrate use (most calculations only calculate that factor as "use")
b) Bitcoins sitting idle, that are also used for storing value (this type of use, is typically overlooked)

A blockchain with a (small) finite amount of data per block can serve both uses, however it will better cover the needs of more users if those users make less transactions (in this case I'm referring to users who use bitcoin for storing value).

Let's say a 3mb non-SW block can do 1mn transactions per day, which can only cover 1 million users who want to make online purchases and perform at least 1 tx per day on average.

Yet the same blockchain can cover 30 mn users / "depositors" / store-of-value users, who want to move funds once per month - on average. Or 90mn users who want to move funds once per 3 months - on average.

The second case has 30-90x more users, using the network for storing value instead of buying coffee, for example. Naturally this reflects on price, leaving the "fees-are-high" people, whether shills or genuinely concerned, dumbfounded - because they can't see how metcalfe's law is being applied on the userbase being multiple times higher if the blockchain is used more appropriately given its constraints.

What have we seen in recent months? People coming in to crypto, buying, holding, waiting. That's it. And that's how it goes up and up - while the buying frenzy is such that exchanges can't cover demand, can't cover support requests (lack of staff), bitcoin ATMs run dry on BTCs in countries plagued with capital controls or regulated currency outflows, buying quotas are implemented in some exchanges, etc etc.

[JayJuanGee]

Don't be trying to act as if you are some kind of enlightened one and you are appealing to Satoshi's original vision with your attempts to impose your own values about what bitcoin should be.  

I'm just trying to use Bitcoin... the only one acting is you.

Does not seem like it to me.  Seems like you are complaining because bitcoin is not working for a particular use that you wished that it worked for...

Too bad, and so sad.  Move on.  Either find something else to work for that purpose or work towards fixing bitcoin to work for that purpose.

I don't know what good it does for your to come here and complain about something that everyone concedes is a current issue... that seems to be high fees... So fucking what.  We all know it - even though you seem to want to come to additional conclusions or false attributions about causes.  Get a grip.   

Bitcoin has evolved into something that you seem to not like, and it is being worked on.

It's not working... it's fucking losing steam because of people like you.

Now, "people like me" are causing your inability to figure out how to cope in life and your tendency to complain and to exaggerate and to falsely attribute?

I'm not exactly sure what you are playing at, but you talk about how it's working out of one part of your keyboard and spam attacks on the other part.  I agree with you on Bitcoin being attacked.

I am merely responding to your non-coherent nonsense.

You are the one complaining about bitcoin being broken, not me.  I am happy with bitcoin.  Sure, there are things that I would like improved, but I am willing to wait because bitcoin is serving me quite well for a large number of purposes. 

You seem to want to force bitcoin into a purpose that is not currently working too well, and have you ever heard of cash or credit cards to buy your stupid ass candy bars?

If you do not like bitcoin, find some other thing to invest in.  I am not sure about what your supposed point is to come into this thread and to spout off patronizing nonsense, as if you supposedly know something that others here do not.

Don't worry about my investments... lets worry about our investment.

Get the fuck out of here.

We do not need to worry about "our investments" because each of us should be able to figure out his/her allocations according to his/her views, finances, timeline, risk tolerance, etc.  There is no fucking reason for you to attempt to impose an "our" in regards to your own inability to figure out how to allocate your own investments... or wishes or whatever the fuck it is that you seem to be wanting to achieve with your ongoing complaining that bitcoin is not working for you personally.

Our investment is working like shit right now.  

Speak for yourself.  My investment into bitcoin is doing quite well. It is performing about 3-4X beyond my most bullish expectations for this particular time line.. doing quite well in a number of ways in spite of a large number of seemingly ongoing rogue actor attacks.

I think investors should be aware because a lot of peoples coins never move off Coinbase sadly.

Sure.... there are some folks who hold all of their investment on Coinbase or some other similar service(s)... So fucking what?  People can chose, and if they chose badly, then what the fuck white knighting are you wanting to achieve here?  Are you in this thread to warn the Coinbase only users?  Even in this thread, I think we have a bit more sophisticated user-base, even though there may be a decent percentage that fall into a kind of "coinbase only" camp like you suggest... but so what?  What does that have to do with the price of tea in china?  or even matters quasi-relevant in this particular discussion, which now seems to be delving into whether bitcoin has value or any use cases beyond speculation or storage of value?

You are merely a party pooper and a negative nancy, who  focuses on some narrow construct attempting to impose your values onto other people and seemingly out of touch, for that matter, too.

Hardly the truth.  I'm as happy as anyone else about all this new wealth introduced into Cryptocurrency,

Surely, you have not been coming off as very "happy" in recent days with you ongoing and persistent bombardment in this thread with negative nonsense that seems to be exaggerating and focusing on a seemingly temporary situation as if it were permanent and seemingly want to shill to drive bitcoin's price down because you are "concerned" that bitcoin is not "living up to its true potential" blah blah blah blah... 

but I'm not so happy that I'm going to be blind to getting robbed through fees...

If you want to buy candy bars with your bitcoins in these times, then you deserve to be robbed.

be it miner spam, Verr spam, Verr friend spam, lulz teen spam or anything else.  This is peoples money we are fucking with and when you make it a bitcoin for people to get their money... well... you get fucking Bitcoin Cash.

Get the fuck out of here with your bcash pumping, and your attempt to suggest that bcash is superior to bitcoin...

Yeah, show your true colors, and you could give a ratt's ass about bitcoin, you just want to come to this thread and to pump some stupid ass alt/attacker coin as if it were to true bitcoin, when a vast majority of peeps already understand that bcash is a fucking fraud... but yeah, you want to pump it anyhow, which makes you among the fraudsters who are engaged in such, so why don't you get your ass back over to r/btc, instead of coming in here to shill your nonsense, while acting as if you have some kind of genuine concern about bitcoin being broken.. blah blah blah.

[JayJuanGee]

I'm all for a block size increase to 2mb. I just think that 8mb, as proposed by BCash, is too much, and will create more problems in the future, such as centralized nodes.

I agree... start slow and move up.

Just do something.

Bitcoin is not broken, and things are being done, such as building on segwit.  Oh, you deleted that part out of your response to fabiorem..    because you just want to perpetuate a presumption that bitcoin is supposedly broken.   

[JayJuanGee]

<nonsense>

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306

Satoshi would not have wasted his time answering such a question if it was not in his original mind frame.

Great quote from that link too "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

Don't be trying to act as if you are some kind of enlightened one and you are appealing to Satoshi's original vision with your attempts to impose your own values about what bitcoin should be.  Bitcoin has evolved into something that you seem to not like, and it is being worked on.  If you do not like bitcoin, find some other thing to invest in.  I am not sure about what your supposed point is to come into this thread and to spout off patronizing nonsense, as if you supposedly know something that others here do not.

You are merely a party pooper and a negative nancy, who  focuses on some narrow construct attempting to impose your values onto other people and seemingly out of touch, for that matter, too.

So you admit BCH is the original Bitcoin.

Another Bcash pumper.  You want to distort whatever I say in order to pump your stupid ass coin as if it were the real bitcoin?   Get the fuck out of here.

Good luck with your high fees slow transactions network that you dare to call Bitcoin.

Good luck with my what?  I am just recognizing what is and working with it.  You think that I am trying to sell something?  This is a fucking bitcoin thread, not a bcash thread, so I don't know what the fuck purpose you have coming in to bash bitcoin and to suggest that your attack vector is the real bitcoin?

No need to tell us to buy something else, we don't need your authorization.

Do whatever the fuck you want, but if you are disinvesting in bitcoin, then probably those discussions would be pertinent somewhere else, rather than joining in on the support of the whining of bayareacoins and other bcash pumpers in this thread.

Try to don't cry too loud the cashening day.

Oh, you got the memo that it is going to be called "cashening" rather than "flippening" for all those who feel that they missed out on bitcoin, they can perhaps attempt to get on the bcash ship in order to attempt to be there for bitcoin 2.0... ... yeah right.   

[RealMachasm]

Hey guys, I don’t want to get drawn into this big block, little block debate nor wether BTC is going to work or not long term but is there a roadmap for future improvement proposals for BTC?
If so, does anyone have a link?
Do we know when/if LN will likely go live?
Thanks.