Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[notme]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make him "right".  And your refuting evidence comes from BP?   I'm totally convinced now.  

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

I agree peak oil is largely overblown since it is essential just decomposed organic matter, but that does not make all resources renewable.  There are still finite limits on many things.

[macsga]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

Yeah, enough science. You don't get laid with CO2 (trust me)!

[Walsoraj]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

[ardana123]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

Single digits by Tuesday? I'd dare say so.

[macsga]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

Single digits by Tuesday? I'd dare say so.

For mBTCs? Sure thing...

[Coinseeker]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make him "right".  And your refuting evidence comes from BP?   I'm totally convinced now.  

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.  How can supply be growing faster than consumption when oil is the result of millions of years of decay?    If the oil reserves of the world were growing, we wouldnt need to figure out how to drill for oil in the arctic, or go through rediculously expensive processes to refine oil sands or invent ways to profitably extract oil from shale.  I mean really?  Are you really buying what OPEC is selling?  Because that's where your information is coming from.  These businesses, like BP don't spend money because they want to, they spend it because they have to.  If their current supplies were unlimited, they could just sit back forever and never explore again, while selling their infinite oil from their current reserves. 

[Adrian-x]

It's hard to believe I have something in common with climate science deniers.
I was converted over to Bitcoin and Austrian economic precisely because of my fundamental understand in environmental sustainability.  

Understanding of Environmental Science is the catalyst that accelerates Bitcoin adoption to the masses.  

I love that: "science" "deniers" - that's two appeals to authority in a single term. The climate change crowd is the most environmentally destructive out there. To care about carbon emissions over things that actually matter, like pollution, is anti-environmental alarmism. It's just an excuse for a global tax. I'm glad that whole charade is winding down, after changing its marketing from "global warming" to "climate change" after the earth refused to warm as commanded. It was one of the lamest spectacles I've seen.

I'm appealing to an authority called logic, deductive reasoning and quantitative results. Not individuals or collective irrational opinion.

I agree with your conclusion in so much as It's "used" as an excuse for a global tax. But that don't change the fact that our environment and natural resources are being squandered and destroyed as a result of centralized economic direction.

The solution to curbing environmental degradation is decentralization, "protection of property rights" and free market based economics.  Here I mean redefining the current understanding of those terms and would recommend reading works by Walter Block on Environmentalism.

[Voodah]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

Single digits by Tuesday? I'd dare say so.

That'd be amusing. All markets would instantly collapse under the sheer burden of buys.

All kidding aside though, the other day I was thinking... the only possible scenario where BTC goes back to single digits is on its way back to 0 if the whole experiment fails.

[Sword Smith]

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.  How can supply be growing faster than consumption when oil is the result of millions of years of decay?

You have misunderstood the concept of a "reserve". In mining a reserve is defined as something that is discovered and has been proven to be economically viable to extract. Therefore reserves CAN grow even though we are pumping oil out of the ground because new oil reserves are constantly being discovered and we are getting better at extracting the oil from the ground so the already existing reserves in known oil fields are becoming larger. The fact that you do not know this tells me that you have not studied this issue enough to have a qualified opinion:

Mineral reserves are resources known to be economically feasible for extraction. Reserves are either Probable Reserves or Proven Reserves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_resource_classification

[Walsoraj]

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.

Why do people have the right to an opinion that has no basis in reality?

You dumb shit.

[JimboToronto]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

Single digits by Tuesday? I'd dare say so.

For mBTCs? Sure thing...

For satoshis some day?  

[Coinseeker]

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.  How can supply be growing faster than consumption when oil is the result of millions of years of decay?

You have misunderstood the concept of a "reserve". In mining a reserve is defined as something that is discovered and has been proven to be economically viable to extract. The fact that you do not know this tells me that you have not studied this issue enough to have a qualified opinion:

Mineral reserves are resources known to be economically feasible for extraction. Reserves are either Probable Reserves or Proven Reserves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_resource_classification

Yet, you did not answer the question because you simply can not defend such illogical thinking.  Now you want to dodge with semantics.   Too funny.  

[maz]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

False. The only manipulation is upwards.

The present situation = pumpers taking a break and natural market forces taking over.

I have to keep reminding my self to take your advice with a pinch of salt, but there's been several times you've hit the nail on the head. One in ten's a gem as they say.

[alexeft]

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.

Why do people have the right to an opinion that has no basis in reality?

You dumb shit.

Simply because nobody can claim to know and/or understand all of reality.

[JimboToronto]

You dumb shit.

Quit talking to yourself.

[Walsoraj]

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.

Why do people have the right to an opinion that has no basis in reality?

You dumb shit.

Simply because nobody can claim to know and/or understand all of reality.

Basis does not equal ALL OF REALITY. A basis is a foundation from which you reach conclusions.

[Voodah]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make him "right".  And your refuting evidence comes from BP?   I'm totally convinced now.  

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.  How can supply be growing faster than consumption when oil is the result of millions of years of decay?    If the oil reserves of the world were growing, we wouldnt need to figure out how to drill for oil in the arctic, or go through rediculously expensive processes to refine oil sands or invent ways to profitably extract oil from shale.  I mean really?  Are you really buying what OPEC is selling?  Because that's where your information is coming from.

You're not getting it.

Supply growing faster than demands does not mean more oil is being produced by decay. It just means that with new tech we're finding more of it now, and it is not so scarce as we once thought. The two latest big deposits found (Brazil and Australia, not Middle east !) are amongst the biggest ever found.

And as you say, we don't "need" to figure out artic drilling. It is done because it is profitable. You don't "need" to keep mining BTC, right?

The more ridiculously expensive the process is, the more profits to be made.

All this said, this whole scheme needs to die. The people behind these companies are the same people who control governments, law, energy, food industries, metal industries and the banking system. It's a closed circuit.

Hopefully BTC or its future follower is the path to disruption but.......  I feel these same hands are already tightening their grip here as well...

[BTCSTOCKS]

http://www.rtcons.com/wall/16033.20.small.png

nice, now what?: the insiders hired some environmeddler PR firm to try and save the world from bitcoin? LOL!! Come on whoop whoop >> Let's save the whales you guys!! *come on weeee can do it!    bwaaahahahaaa

[alexeft]

You have the right to your opinion and that's all it is.  An opinion.  My opinion, is that your opinion is not based in reality.

Why do people have the right to an opinion that has no basis in reality?

You dumb shit.

Simply because nobody can claim to know and/or understand all of reality.

Basis does not equal ALL OF REALITY. A basis is a foundation from which you reach conclusions.

Ok, I didn't read your whole argument but a basis is only A basis anyway. One of many that exist
for any particular topic in discussion.

[rpietila]

I don't think $800 is cheap.