Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Shak]

adressing the climate stuff:
as a scientist who has read the papers: there is an unusual fast change in temperature, co2 concentrations and ocean pH value. since the number of volcanic eruptions didn't spike and the sun is quite silent, no natural source of those changes were found. thus there is a possibility of an imbalance induced by mankind.
although many studies are carried out, no natural origin of those changes has been proven so far.

changes in all those values above wouldn't be critical at all, life is quite adaptive. it changes a few million species and continues on. our influence towards that is neglectible. there is just a chance that these changes may have negative influence on our lifestyle and wealth - thats why it became spreaded by mass-media and politics... usually we don't get this kind of attention while the work is still in progress

adressing the bitcoin stuff:

lets hope the asian maniacs crash the market down to 500, i want to buy some more bitcoins. but i would rather bet on a consolidation, followed by a massive rise by the end of the week. new money is incoming, fueling a new bubble?

[1713486680]

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[1713486680]

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[Mirsad]

Zang (and others), what links would you suggest:
how to explain Bitcoin to treasurers of a trust which has just received a hefty donation in bitcoins, with a stipulation that they cannot be sold at will, rather according to The Plan  

Tell them it's a very elaborate pyramide scheme, but they have to cash out in trunks, otherwise there will be a flashcrash.

[notme]

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

Please do some research, here is a good overview to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Nature does have good pH buffers, but in addition to the direct acidification via carbon,

CO2 (aq) + H2O <-> H2CO3 <-> HCO3(−) + H(+) <-> CO3(2−) + 2 H(+)

we are also dumping massive amounts of fertilizers and organic waste into our oceans.  This encourages algae blooms that  absorb dissolved oxygen and create more CO2.

[macsga]

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

[crazy_rabbit]

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Well with a half a percent in commission for tradeing, it means if you sold just one bitcoin, you need the price to drop at least $8.2 to be able to buy in and break even. That's 1% of a bitcoin. Is it really worth the risk/effort?

Yeah the fees are ruining it but I still have 50% of the coins.

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Bulls dont care about feelings 

05:19 am in Tokyo. Monday wakes up in Asia...

So, what you mean? good or bad what I did?

Probably bad, to be honest. Mondays are generally one of the busiest trading days as money starts arriving on peoples accounts and price can rise. But it's your money, so, you know. you decide whats best. 

[emanymton]

It's hard to believe I have something in common with climate science deniers.
I was converted over to Bitcoin and Austrian economic precisely because of my fundamental understand in environmental sustainability.  

Understanding of Environmental Science is the catalyst that accelerates Bitcoin adoption to the masses.  

I love that: "science" "deniers" - that's two appeals to authority in a single term. The climate change crowd is the most environmentally destructive out there. To care about carbon emissions over things that actually matter, like pollution, is anti-environmental alarmism. It's just an excuse for a global tax. I'm glad that whole charade is winding down, after changing its marketing from "global warming" to "climate change" after the earth refused to warm as commanded. It was one of the lamest spectacles I've seen.

+1 The greenhouse gas that has the most effect on temperature is water vapour. True story.

[notme]

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

In the link you provided, the position you are taking is listed as a "climate myth".  The response concludes with

The level of atmospheric CO2 is building up, the additional CO2 is being produced by burning fossil fuels, and that build up is accelerating.

.

[Sword Smith]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

[ablewasiereisawelba]

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

Posts like this make me afraid to buy bitcoin.

[Pruden]

Interesting, mind linking some sources, books or otherwise of achieving a higher understanding of relevant environmental sustainability science please.  Thanks.

Not sure if serious, but "Collapse" by Jared Diamond is quite an insight into the relationships between several societies along history and their environments, the challenges they faced and how they reacted to them, which influenced their sustainability (it's not all about collapses, there are whole chapters about more successful civilizations, like Japan or Papua).

The worst part is how many people could see problems coming but failed to react because of tradition, selfishness, etc.

[macsga]

It's true I've picked up only the picture from there (didn't read the whole thing). The idea is this though. A very small amount of CO2 is produced artificially.

[justusranvier]

we are also dumping massive amounts of fertilizers and organic waste into our oceans.  This encourages algae blooms that  absorb dissolved oxygen and create more CO2.

And a not-insignificant fraction of that comes from overproduction of corn caused by ethanol subsidies.

Subsidies that were sold to the public under the guise of helping to solve the very problems which they cause.

Neat trick - convince the public that you need more money in order to solve a problem that's caused them giving you money and you can be set for life.

[Coinseeker]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make him "right".  And your refuting evidence comes from BP?   I'm totally convinced now. 

[I_bitcoin]

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

I had no idea climate scientists were so interested in Bitcoin.  This is great news for adoption.   Next we are going to see hair dressers and telephone sanitizers!

[keewee]

Some pressure on the sell side...

Edit: and it's gone

[jojo69]

An increasingly globalised humanity is faced with climate change,
dwindling resources, overpopulation and technological upheaval.

Not a promising start: climate change BS, "running out of resources" fallacy (economic ignorance), overpopulation OK maybe, technological "upheaval" (is this supposed to be bad!?).

Desperate attempts are made to stabilise Earth's climate, as a
post-capitalist world begins to emerge.

More climate change BS, "post-capitalist"...stopped reading there.

Maybe I was too judgmental, but I can't imagine that someone so ignorant about the basics of how the world works (I think my high school teachers said the exact same thing as this) would have any reliable insight on the future.

yeah, the natural world is like a bottomless checkbook

we can just take take take forever and nothing bad happens

That's a strawman,

No

but perhaps I should elaborate.  For me this debate is large aesthetic.  I like forests better than strip malls, Fresh, non toxic, seafood better than processed soy, clean air better than the stench of sewage and unleaded exhaust, knowing there are elephants and polar bears in the world instead of trying to cram every last possible homo sapiens in.  Call me crazy.

[macsga]

I had no idea climate scientists were so interested in Bitcoin.  This is great news for adoption.   Next we are going to see hair dressers and telephone sanitizers!

Let's hope it comes fast. I'm in need of a (bitcoin) hair dresser

[Sword Smith]

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video:  If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently?    

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance".  We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite.  If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't.  People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for.  This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

Just because you agree with him, doesn't make him "right".  And your refuting evidence comes from BP?   I'm totally convinced now.  

I don't "agree" with him. I know he is right because I have studied this myself. The R/P ratios (reserves divided by production) rises for many fossile fuels and since the end of the 19th century some people who do not understand economics have been warning about peak oil. Peak oil is a myth but I don't see why we should have a political argument about it.

[JimboToronto]

Someone's trying really hard to crash the market but most people don't seem to be ready for that.

The wall dance is entertaining though.

[Walsoraj]

party time