Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[virtualfaqs]

 It [fraud] also requires the deception to be practiced "in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain."  This second half is one thing that makes it different from a "hoax."

Of course this merely pushes the question back a square:  What is unfair?

Yes, exactly!  The Wikipedia definition requires the arbitror to not only conclude that the deception was deliberate, but that the gain that resulted from it was "unfair."  So we are back a square, indeed.  If a whale places a 3000 BTC ask wall to scare the small fish into selling, does that qualify as "deception"?  A larger whale could eat his wall in a single bite.  And even if one concludes that this is deliberate deception, is this also "unfair"?  The market participants are playing by the same rules, some of them just happen to hold more capital.  Lastly, I'm not even convinced that profitable manipulation is even possible over the long term. 

One reason that I'm excited about bitcoin and the power of the blockchain is that I believe it will allow us to write more exact contracts and motivate de-ambiguity or our legal system.  

I think this is happening right now. 1100 BTC volume in the last hour and we barely moved.

[shmadz]

 It [fraud] also requires the deception to be practiced "in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain."  This second half is one thing that makes it different from a "hoax."

Of course this merely pushes the question back a square:  What is unfair?

Yes, exactly!  The Wikipedia definition requires the arbitror to not only conclude that the deception was deliberate, but that the gain that resulted from it was "unfair."  So we are back a square, indeed.  If a whale places a 3000 BTC ask wall to scare the small fish into selling, does that qualify as "deception"?  A larger whale could eat his wall in a single bite.  And even if one concludes that this is deliberate deception, is this also "unfair"?  The market participants are playing by the same rules, some of them just happen to hold more capital.  Lastly, I'm not even convinced that profitable manipulation is even possible over the long term. 

One reason that I'm excited about bitcoin and the power of the blockchain is that I believe it will allow us to write more exact contracts and motivate de-ambiguity or our legal system.  

After reading through that list earlier of all the shady moves that can be pulled by manipulators, isn't it precisely the regulations that make all that shit possible?

The regulating body makes a set of rules, then decides how and when to enforce those rules.  

Manipulation is a time-honoured tradition of the legacy financial system, and the regulators seem quite accustomed to looking the other way.

I say gloves off, anything goes, let bitcoin regulate itself.

[NewLiberty]

ok the china deadline is tomorrow

why is the market not reacting?

Tomorrow? It was the Chinese New Year, not? So, the deadline should be the 30.1.14.

Yup, it was Chinese new year, so we still have another month to go.

oh the deadline it on the 30th of next month.

shit

i thought it was tomorrow

There is a different deadline tomorrow:  Swiss Banking and USA Foreign Account Disclosure Compliance and taxation.
Swiss banks have a deadline of tomorrow to sign up for compliance.  Some are doing so:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/27/us-tax-switzerland-lombardodier-idUSBRE9BQ03T20131227

Everyone I know pays their taxes, and usually end up overpaying to be conservative...  But I imagine there might be some folks in the USA that have used Swiss accounts to hide money.  They might want to do something else with that money.

[windjc]

715 becomes important support now for Gox. Can it hold until January the 6th. Will be interesting to see.

[RandyMagnum]

Regarding US capital gains changes, I doubt many hodlers are looking to trade in dramatic fashion tomorrow to avoid the 2014 hike, but I'm not Nostradamus.

edit: spelling error - holders to hodlers

[mellowyellow]

Regarding US capital gains changes, I doubt many holders are looking to trade in dramatic fashion tomorrow to avoid the 2014 hike, but I'm not Nostradamus.

How much of a hike?

[RandyMagnum]

How much of a hike?

The back n' forth here covers it pretty well:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1tx6u0/in_us_preserve_2013_bitcoin_gains_before_2014/

I'm positive that it is in fact a year late and was either ignorance, or an attempt at FUD.  As I believe that is the case, forgive me for even mentioning it in the first place.

[aminorex]

715 becomes important support now for Gox. Can it hold until January the 6th. Will be interesting to see.

*shake*
outlook not so good

[aminorex]

After reading through that list earlier of all the shady moves that can be pulled by manipulators, isn't it precisely the regulations that make all that shit possible?

The regulating body makes a set of rules, then decides how and when to enforce those rules.  

Someone (wisely) said:  All human systems will be gamed.

I am not often robbed, but when I am, I prefer for it not to be under color of law.

[ChartBuddy]

[deadfi$h]

Less than 5 coin traded on stamp in the last 20 minutes! About the same on Gox. This sucks... I'm sitting on a quick short trade.

[Davyd05]

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/new-bitcoin-ira-offered-by-broad-financial-1865581.htm

go go IRAs

[TERA]

Regarding US capital gains changes, I doubt many hodlers are looking to trade in dramatic fashion tomorrow to avoid the 2014 hike, but I'm not Nostradamus.

edit: spelling error - holders to hodlers

I am under the impression that day tarders cannot possibly reduce taxes anyway by opening a new position and/or transferring coins offline. Is this correct?

[ChartBuddy]

[solex]

Regarding US capital gains changes, I doubt many hodlers are looking to trade in dramatic fashion tomorrow to avoid the 2014 hike, but I'm not Nostradamus.

edit: spelling error - holders to hodlers

I am under the impression that day tarders cannot possibly reduce taxes anyway by opening a new position and/or transferring coins offline. Is this correct?

The US capital gains changes took effect Jan 1st 2013, so it is 2014 which is the first return year. If CGT is to be saved then bitcoins would have to have been sold in 2012.

[Syke]

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/new-bitcoin-ira-offered-by-broad-financial-1865581.htm

go go IRAs

+1

http://www.broadfinancial.com/bitcoin

[RandyMagnum]

Regarding US capital gains changes, I doubt many hodlers are looking to trade in dramatic fashion tomorrow to avoid the 2014 hike, but I'm not Nostradamus.

edit: spelling error - holders to hodlers

I am under the impression that day tarders cannot possibly reduce taxes anyway by opening a new position and/or transferring coins offline. Is this correct?

The US capital gains changes took effect Jan 1st 2013, so it is 2014 which is the first return year. If CGT is to be saved then bitcoins would have to have been sold in 2012.

This is correct.  Again, I was too slack in posting that to begin with.

[Ashitank]

I guess the slow decline phase has started as it was predicted earlier.

[MikeH]

I guess the slow decline phase has started as it was predicted earlier.

what you saying? we in a bubble?  you're a bubble!

[OldGeek]

Interesting discussions these last few hours.

Let me ask you, who are smarter than I, what do you think would be the effect on the western markets if, say Huobi, crashed to zero in the next 24 hours?