Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[seljo]

I agree with bitchick. I'm from a 3rd world country. If i were not given 100btc long time ago i wouldn't be here. Basic salary in my country is only around $200 to $300 (tax is not yet subtracted) PER MONTH. Most of my countrymen cant even keep $50 at the end of the month. I'm just lucky being an early holder.

I think you meant me. Bitchick wants to leave us 3rd world scum behind !

I don't want to leave the 3rd world behind at all!

Voodah just forgot his [teasingBitChick]...[/teasingBitChick] tags 

Yes.  I know he was probably kidding.  I just did not think it was all that funny! 

Ofc ! I kid, I kid.

I'm only taking the devil's advocate side for the sake of argumentation. 3rd world view is barely represented here, and when it is, it is often misunderstood or misportrayed due to lack of information. These things need to be said and addressed though, and it's not like we're gonna have some 1st world Robin Hood come and catch us up to speed.

Harsh but true tho:

The average monthly salary in South America does not buy a single Bitcoin.
The average monthly salary in Africa does not buy 1/4 Bitcoin (and this is being good because of SouthAfrica significantly increasing the buying power).
The average monthly salary in India does not buy 1/10 Bitcoin.

Everyone, please, as reference: How many BTC can you buy with 1 months pay where you live?

1.2

[Peter R]

Happy New Year from down under...

Without intending to, I ended up acting as a bit of a Bitcoin advocate tonight while out with friends at a New Years Eve party. I tried to enlighten them (inadvertently came up with a different analogy each time) as to what Bitcoin really was, but in the end the main 'argument' they had against it was "If I can't touch it, it's not real - I don't trust the internet with it". Which is ironic since that is basically what they're doing with their bank accounts.

One guy was a Financial Advisor (capital 'F', capital 'A' - his distinction, not mine) who said he was happy to "argue against Bitcoin all night". I (successfully, I think) countered every roadblock he threw up about Bitcoin and ended up betting him that one Bitcoin would be worth more than $50,000USD in 3 years (perhaps a little bullish, although can you blame me?)*. I confess, I may have been a little inebriated by this point, but I am getting a little fed up with the ramblings of people who have not taken a few minutes out of their day to research what Bitcoin actually is (i.e. a protocol as well as a currency), but instead act as if they're experts who foresee the demise of this 'imaginary money'.

Does anyone else get a little fed up with this sort of attitude?

(Apologies if this post does not belong in this thread... It's just that this is the main thread I read (every morning without fail, I trawl through the 8 or so pages that have been posted overnight... > 8 pages = something big has happened, < 8 pages = price has remained stagnant.) Although, it seems 'stagnant' in Bitcoin vernacular is akin to 'short-term' or 'temporary' in normal trading terms.)

*Bought at $1060 and have been 'hodling' ever since.
 

Hi JulieFig, my counter-attack against such people is to appeal to the logical desire to maximize wealth.  You ask them this:

You meet a generous billionaire who loves to gamble just for the lulz.  He offers you a bet: he says he's going to toss a coin (a provably fair coin) and you get to call it in the air.  If you lose, you lose your bet, but if you win, you win 20 X what you bet.  You only get one shot at this.  How much would you bet?

Even if you detest the concept of bitcoin and assign it a small probablity of success, it is logical to at least make a small bet in case it succeeds.  Why not risk $100 in case it goes to $500,000 per bitcoin?  

*To do this, you must be able to convince them that should bitcoin *one day* become a dominant global currency, it must have a market cap measured in hundreds of billion or trillions of dollars.  This is fact, but still some people can't understand that if more people buy something of limited supply that the price must rise.

[Adrian-x]

Happy New Year from down under...

Without intending to, I ended up acting as a bit of a Bitcoin advocate tonight while out with friends at a New Years Eve party. I tried to enlighten them (inadvertently came up with a different analogy each time) as to what Bitcoin really was, but in the end the main 'argument' they had against it was "If I can't touch it, it's not real - I don't trust the internet with it". Which is ironic since that is basically what they're doing with their bank accounts.

One guy was a Financial Advisor (capital 'F', capital 'A' - his distinction, not mine) who said he was happy to "argue against Bitcoin all night". I (successfully, I think) countered every roadblock he threw up about Bitcoin and ended up betting him that one Bitcoin would be worth more than $50,000USD in 3 years (perhaps a little bullish, although can you blame me?)*. I confess, I may have been a little inebriated by this point, but I am getting a little fed up with the ramblings of people who have not taken a few minutes out of their day to research what Bitcoin actually is (i.e. a protocol as well as a currency), but instead act as if they're experts who foresee the demise of this 'imaginary money'.

Does anyone else get a little fed up with this sort of attitude?

(Apologies if this post does not belong in this thread... It's just that this is the main thread I read (every morning without fail, I trawl through the 8 or so pages that have been posted overnight... > 8 pages = something big has happened, < 8 pages = price has remained stagnant.) Although, it seems 'stagnant' in Bitcoin vernacular is akin to 'short-term' or 'temporary' in normal trading terms.)

*Bought at $1060 and have been 'hodling' ever since.
 

Hang in there Bitcoin can benefit everyone but not everyone will benefit equally. So don't get your knickers in a knot if they don't buy in. Historically buying at the top pays off over time. Ironically my first big purchase was in the $2.80 range, and I frequently buy at the top. Hold for sure but don't hold everything until $50K.

[virtualfaqs]

Happy New Year from down under...

Without intending to, I ended up acting as a bit of a Bitcoin advocate tonight while out with friends at a New Years Eve party. I tried to enlighten them (inadvertently came up with a different analogy each time) as to what Bitcoin really was, but in the end the main 'argument' they had against it was "If I can't touch it, it's not real - I don't trust the internet with it". Which is ironic since that is basically what they're doing with their bank accounts.

One guy was a Financial Advisor (capital 'F', capital 'A' - his distinction, not mine) who said he was happy to "argue against Bitcoin all night". I (successfully, I think) countered every roadblock he threw up about Bitcoin and ended up betting him that one Bitcoin would be worth more than $50,000USD in 3 years (perhaps a little bullish, although can you blame me?)*. I confess, I may have been a little inebriated by this point, but I am getting a little fed up with the ramblings of people who have not taken a few minutes out of their day to research what Bitcoin actually is (i.e. a protocol as well as a currency), but instead act as if they're experts who foresee the demise of this 'imaginary money'.

Does anyone else get a little fed up with this sort of attitude?

(Apologies if this post does not belong in this thread... It's just that this is the main thread I read (every morning without fail, I trawl through the 8 or so pages that have been posted overnight... > 8 pages = something big has happened, < 8 pages = price has remained stagnant.) Although, it seems 'stagnant' in Bitcoin vernacular is akin to 'short-term' or 'temporary' in normal trading terms.)

*Bought at $1060 and have been 'hodling' ever since.
 

Well done! Fucking well done! Thanks for being so sincere and keep hodling - you'll be in the black shortly no worries at all!

Thanks hey! There are some very nice guys on this forum .

A few girls are on here too.  Yes,  I purchased into the last rise in price and was "under water" so to speak for several months in the Summer.  Just held on and it all worked out.  The only people that really lose any value are those that panic then sell before the price rises again.  Hopefully, in your case, you won't have to wait too long.  Things are looking pretty good right now I would say.

Historically The $30 drop in 2011 up to reaching $30 in 2013 was the longest it took to reach the same price. Holding for 1 year should put you in good position. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[justusranvier]

Harsh but true tho:

The average monthly salary in South America does not buy a single Bitcoin.
The average monthly salary in Africa does not buy 1/4 Bitcoin (and this is being good because of SouthAfrica significantly increasing the buying power).
The average monthly salary in India does not buy 1/10 Bitcoin.

This is why the key for bitcoin adoption there is to allow them to start their own online businesses that bypass the economic restrictions that would otherwise get in the way.

This means virtual corporations, smart contracts, and similar features are most important outside the first world.

[iarsenaux]

I agree with bitchick. I'm from a 3rd world country. If i were not given 100btc long time ago i wouldn't be here. Basic salary in my country is only around $200 to $300 (tax is not yet subtracted) PER MONTH. Most of my countrymen cant even keep $50 at the end of the month. I'm just lucky being an early holder.

I think you meant me. Bitchick wants to leave us 3rd world scum behind !

Sorry about that. It's 3:40am here. New year's party just ended. Though it's very hard for us to get into btc, i still invite my friends to try it out. I'm telling them that it's ok to buy in fractions and it is not necessary to get a whole before thay can join in. I'm telling them that one day bitcoin will save us from the double tax that we are paying and also fees from transfering money. Imagine i paid an extra $50 for the tax of an item that worths $50 in the USA.

I was already successful on convincing like 3 people. (2 relatives and 1 friend). I lend them few coins before and teach them how can they make it grow and i am so happy now that they are now playing with their own coins. I hope bitcoin will continue. Even if it wont reach 10kUSD, at least i hope it continues to be useful.

I will be having my bitcoin-funded wedding on January 15, 2014. I did not literally paid bitcoin for it but it's almost the same as i was able to generate the funds through bitcoin.

So whatever happens in 2014, i will continue supporting bitcoin.

[justusranvier]

Historically The $30 drop in 2011 up to reaching $30 in 2013 was the longest it took to reach the same price. Holding for 1 year should put you in good position. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The historical probability of being up after holding for 365 days is 90%.

The average 365 day return is 2370%.

[T.Stuart]

Oh! You're a girl! I must confess I didn't even look at your name. Please allow me to introduce myself: T.Stuart! *Takes off hat and bows politely*

says the guy advertising sexcoin..

how you doin?

Fine thank you! And if it were up to me I would call it "Make Love Coin" but never mind!  

[MikeH]

.....
The average monthly salary in India does not buy 1/10 Bitcoin.

Everyone, please, as reference: How many BTC can you buy with 1 months pay where you live?

are you taking into consideration the cost of living? rent here is like $500 / week, cheapest house around $450k

anyway I don't think you have to worry too much, bitcoin will be the start of something good for everyone around the world, even for those that don't own any - for starters, donations can actually reach their destination instead of just 5%.  (yes many charities keep 95%)

[bitcodo]

[virtualfaqs]

Historically The $30 drop in 2011 up to reaching $30 in 2013 was the longest it took to reach the same price. Holding for 1 year should put you in good position. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The historical probability of being up after holding for 365 days is 90%.

The average 365 day return is 2370%.

Thank you for those lovely statistics. 

[Peter R]

It's pretty funny really, people here still going on about what they would like to happen to btc, or what is good for btc - it seems to me that over the last few weeks that noble ship has sailed.

People buying now are purely speculators who couldn't care less about btc long term - this is a gold rush. Except it's one that can be shut down pretty quickly by regulation or other scenarios - so a high risk gold rush. Nothing more.

People here simply want others to buy more btc, so they can sell their btc for more, no-one gives a wotsit whether a single satoshi is ever spent or used in commerce. It's sad as it was such a good idea too.

Happy New Year!!

(may have had a glass or two of wine )

I don't get that sense at all.  I think most people believe that bitcoin will be a better way to store wealth and exchange value with people across the globe.  It is a powerful idea that will probably lead to advances that we can't even imagine yet.  I feel we have a chance here to leave a better world behind for our children.  I also think most people will always hold a portion of their wealth in bitcoin, regardless of how high the price rises.  

About the profit: Of course people want to increase their wealth.  What is wrong with that?  A fir tree doesn't say, hmm, I think I'll stop growing now that I'm 100 ft tall.  No, the fir tree says I'm going to keep reaching for the sun!  This is just the way nature is.  I think to advance as a society we need to become more self-aware of what we really are.  

Bitcoin is interesting because it allows one to work towards something they believe in while simultaneously earning a profit (should the price continue to rise).  

[ChartBuddy]

[iarsenaux]

Have you heard about the huge of donations that flooded Philippines after the typhoon? Believe it or not. Many of the funds were missing and the places that has been devastated is still misserable. Even the donations has been taxed. I wonder if it's still the same scene if the donations was sent in bitcoin instead. We don't have any taxation laws for intangible goods yet.

[virtualfaqs]

Happy New Year from down under...

Without intending to, I ended up acting as a bit of a Bitcoin advocate tonight while out with friends at a New Years Eve party. I tried to enlighten them (inadvertently came up with a different analogy each time) as to what Bitcoin really was, but in the end the main 'argument' they had against it was "If I can't touch it, it's not real - I don't trust the internet with it". Which is ironic since that is basically what they're doing with their bank accounts.

One guy was a Financial Advisor (capital 'F', capital 'A' - his distinction, not mine) who said he was happy to "argue against Bitcoin all night". I (successfully, I think) countered every roadblock he threw up about Bitcoin and ended up betting him that one Bitcoin would be worth more than $50,000USD in 3 years (perhaps a little bullish, although can you blame me?)*. I confess, I may have been a little inebriated by this point, but I am getting a little fed up with the ramblings of people who have not taken a few minutes out of their day to research what Bitcoin actually is (i.e. a protocol as well as a currency), but instead act as if they're experts who foresee the demise of this 'imaginary money'.

Does anyone else get a little fed up with this sort of attitude?

(Apologies if this post does not belong in this thread... It's just that this is the main thread I read (every morning without fail, I trawl through the 8 or so pages that have been posted overnight... > 8 pages = something big has happened, < 8 pages = price has remained stagnant.) Although, it seems 'stagnant' in Bitcoin vernacular is akin to 'short-term' or 'temporary' in normal trading terms.)

*Bought at $1060 and have been 'hodling' ever since.
 

Hi JulieFig, my counter-attack against such people is to appeal to the logically desire to maximize wealth.  You ask them this:

You meet a generous billionaire who loves to gamble just for the lulz.  He offers you a bet: he says he's going to toss a coin (a provably fair coin) and you get to call it in the air.  If you lose, you lose your bet, but if you win, you win 20 X what you bet.  You only get one shot at this.  How much would you bet?

Even if you detest the concept of bitcoin and assign it a small probablity of success, it is logical to at least make a small bet in case it succeeds.  Why not risk $100 in case it goes to $500,000 per bitcoin?  

*To do this, you must be able to convince them that should bitcoin *one day* become a dominant global currency, it must have a market cap measured in hundreds of billion or trillions of dollars.  This is fact, but still some people can't understand that if more people buy something of limited supply that the price must rise.

Well to those people, BTC still sounds like every other get-rich-quick money making scam out there and "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." These people are quickly identified and I don't waste my time. Even those who want to throw money at BTC because of how much it's risen, I tell them you have to understand BTC before buying into it. (I don't want to deal with anyone who gets pissed at me because the price starts crashing after they buy in.) One of my colleagues wants to buy and I explained you have to understand what BTC is. She's like Why? I'm only spending $10. Well, can't argue with that I guess.  

[T.Stuart]

Bitcoin is interesting because it allows one to work towards something they believe in while simultaneously earning a profit (should the price continue to rise).  

+1

And that's the interesting and exciting thing about the de-centralisation - anyone is welcome to start a Bitcoin business as if it was a de-centralised company. These early start ups are 100% free to do as they please - they are not a franchise, they are not a subsidiary, etc. There is a mass of potential here (and we can see smart investors rushing to get into the main players so far).

Some of the early Bitcoiners now have enough wealth to create or invest in Bitcoin companies, and they are doing so.

Each and every miner is also part of the engine that powers Bitcoin. They are providing a service.

These factors and more are what keeps Bitcoin supported when speculation gets weak - that's why overall Bitcoin is not in a bubble at all.

[MikeH]

Have you heard about the huge of donations that flooded Philippines after the typhoon? Believe it or not. Many of the funds were missing and the places that has been devastated is still misserable. Even the donations has been taxed. I wonder if it's still the same scene if the donations was sent in bitcoin instead. We don't have any taxation laws for intangible goods yet.

I think the odds would be better as they could be received by organisers in the destination country instead of some western middleman scam charity.


btw, check out what bill gates invests in to help the world..

http://www.blacklistednews.com/The_Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation_exposed/31334/0/38/38/Y/M.html

[Peter R]

Happy New Year from down under...

Without intending to, I ended up acting as a bit of a Bitcoin advocate tonight while out with friends at a New Years Eve party. I tried to enlighten them (inadvertently came up with a different analogy each time) as to what Bitcoin really was, but in the end the main 'argument' they had against it was "If I can't touch it, it's not real - I don't trust the internet with it". Which is ironic since that is basically what they're doing with their bank accounts.

One guy was a Financial Advisor (capital 'F', capital 'A' - his distinction, not mine) who said he was happy to "argue against Bitcoin all night". I (successfully, I think) countered every roadblock he threw up about Bitcoin and ended up betting him that one Bitcoin would be worth more than $50,000USD in 3 years (perhaps a little bullish, although can you blame me?)*. I confess, I may have been a little inebriated by this point, but I am getting a little fed up with the ramblings of people who have not taken a few minutes out of their day to research what Bitcoin actually is (i.e. a protocol as well as a currency), but instead act as if they're experts who foresee the demise of this 'imaginary money'.

Does anyone else get a little fed up with this sort of attitude?

(Apologies if this post does not belong in this thread... It's just that this is the main thread I read (every morning without fail, I trawl through the 8 or so pages that have been posted overnight... > 8 pages = something big has happened, < 8 pages = price has remained stagnant.) Although, it seems 'stagnant' in Bitcoin vernacular is akin to 'short-term' or 'temporary' in normal trading terms.)

*Bought at $1060 and have been 'hodling' ever since.
 

Hi JulieFig, my counter-attack against such people is to appeal to the logically desire to maximize wealth.  You ask them this:

You meet a generous billionaire who loves to gamble just for the lulz.  He offers you a bet: he says he's going to toss a coin (a provably fair coin) and you get to call it in the air.  If you lose, you lose your bet, but if you win, you win 20 X what you bet.  You only get one shot at this.  How much would you bet?

Even if you detest the concept of bitcoin and assign it a small probablity of success, it is logical to at least make a small bet in case it succeeds.  Why not risk $100 in case it goes to $500,000 per bitcoin?  

*To do this, you must be able to convince them that should bitcoin *one day* become a dominant global currency, it must have a market cap measured in hundreds of billion or trillions of dollars.  This is fact, but still some people can't understand that if more people buy something of limited supply that the price must rise.

Well to those people, BTC still sounds like every other get-rich-quick money making scam out there and "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

Yes, you're right.  How quickly I forgot that I used to be one of those people.  How I rue the warm autumn day in 2009 when my mom emailed me a note on bitcoin from some obscure "New Age" website and I was too arrogant to even read it.  

[T.Stuart]

 How I rue the warm autumn day in 2009 when my mom emailed me a note on bitcoin from some obscure "New Age" website and I was too arrogant to even read it.  

lol! Your mum got in before you! That's rich! 

[Peter R]

 How I rue the warm autumn day in 2009 when my mom emailed me a note on bitcoin from some obscure "New Age" website and I was too arrogant to even read it.  

lol! Your mum got in before you! That's rich! 

It's quite sad actually.  She wanted to get $100 worth.  IIRC MtGox wasn't even around at that time, but I think there was some other way to buy some.  I had it in my head that it was just some stupid video game money so I didn't put forth than 20 min of effort it would have taken to help her.