Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[makrospex]

In that regard, the alleged manipulators might have to change sides when the BTC price starts moving against them in order to attempt to recuperate their losses in the opposite direction of their original intended manipulation, so would those kinds of behaviors and dynamics be fairly characterized as manipulation or just reasonable and expected dynamics of a relatively small free market?

Yes, they would have to, if these manipulators actually exist.
At least the appeal - or eventuality - that such exist and do successfully more or less willingly or unwillingly, significantly manipulate prices, the trust into bitcoin as an investment would likely decrease, mostly by (future) retail customers.

[JayJuanGee]

Here's mine if you guys want a rare lurker card.

Damn a quiet lurker with JJG as a BFF

Hey!!!!!!


I resemble that statement!!!!    


There has got(s) to be some forum members with me as their BFF, even if they don't want it.  It's inevitable and in the algorithm that was created by webtricks, and cannot be avoided - even when some guys and gal might employ tactics to avoid me as their BFF by trying to irritate / annoy me, I don't tend to hold grudges - except maybe with Roach.... hahahahaahaha  

Make one as well

I already did, and LFC is my bff, too.  So yeah, you and I have the same BFF... go figure??

[El duderino_]

Night, HODLnest is calling me..... will be one of the last nights in this one....

Damn it have served me well and still does!

Gonna be hard one of the days

[JayJuanGee]

In that regard, the alleged manipulators might have to change sides when the BTC price starts moving against them in order to attempt to recuperate their losses in the opposite direction of their original intended manipulation, so would those kinds of behaviors and dynamics be fairly characterized as manipulation or just reasonable and expected dynamics of a relatively small free market?

Yes, they would have to, if these manipulators actually exist.
At least the appeal - or eventuality - that such exist and do successfully more or less willingly or unwillingly, significantly manipulate prices, the trust into bitcoin as an investment would likely decrease, mostly by (future) retail customers.

I am not sure whether we are arguing about semantics or merely just some amount of variation in regards to how we speculate about the manipulation going on or the possible impact of such purported manipulation.

There might be some BTC/market/price dynamics that we actually agree upon, and then there would be questions regarding how we might characterize those dynamics, and their effects on either the market or perceptions of the market.

Shouldn't we already agree that there are going to be whale players who are going to want to manipulate bitcoin down as much as they can and for as long as they can, and they are going to use actual physical manipulations such as dumping coins, and if they can they are going to attempt to engage in dirty tactics such as fractional reserves and whatever they can to time their dumpenings and they are going to use information or misinformation campaigns in order to attempt to create negative impressions about bitcoin, but in the end, how far and for how long are they going to be able to be successful in keeping the BTC price down.

Those fucks tried and tried and tried to keep BTC prices below $500, but they lost control.  Same is true at other BTC price points, so what makes you believe that they are going to be any more successful this time?  Are they going to be able to get BTC prices to go below $3,122?  The odds seem quite highly against them, so who the fuck cares if they are able to drag out this particular correction for months and months and months, because in the end, they are going to have to give in and allow or chase BTC's price up.

I have no doubts that there are BIG ASS players who can keep BTC's price down further and for longer than reasonable or rational, but they are also ONLY likely to be able to achieve their objectives for so long, and that is likely what happened in late 2015 when they could no longer keep BTC's price down.  Same could happen this time.  If they can get BTC's price to go below $3,122 then there are going to be a lot of jaded folks, but what the fuck are HODLers like us going to do at those price points?  Hopefully we are buying rather than selling, but anyhow, let them manipulate and try to get the price to go down.  That is what we expect them to attempt to do, but BTC prices are still way the fuck higher than they were a few years ago, and that is surely not because whale manipulators wanted BTC's prices to be in these current $8k-ish territories.  If it was up to them, we would still be below $500. 

TLDR (for Hueristic)  , these bearwhale fucktwats, whether they are rich peeps, financial institutions, government entities or some combination can ONLY manipulate BTC prices and public sentiment so much, which in the end, I have a hard time conceding that manipulation is really the right descriptive word choice.

[JayJuanGee]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead 

Good thing that Mimblewimble and BTC are not the same thing.  In other words, fuck that shit coin.   

[cAPSLOCK]

Normally I feel no need to issue a "no homo" disclaimer...  but this card got me right, and maybe I should!

[cAPSLOCK]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead 

Well first of all I own NO Grin or other MW coin.  The only alt i DO own in any sigificance is Monero, so there's the disclaimer...

But how many times have we heard about a cryptocurrency being toast?  I tend to take these things with a grain of salt.  On the other hand MW is a very experimental tech, and we should not be suprised when this sort of thing fails.

But why would this relative unknown coin be a reason for BTC to dip?

(one more thing...  I am always amazed anyone would give any creedence to Zcash at all... the founders reward is reason #1 to shun it, and opt in privacy is not really privacy).

[rdbase]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead  

Well first of all I own NO Grin or other MW coin.  The only alt i DO own in any sigificance is Monero, so there's the disclaimer...

But how many times have we heard about a cryptocurrency being toast?  I tend to take these things with a grain of salt.  On the other hand MW is a very experimental tech, and we should not be suprised when this sort of thing fails.

But why would this relative unknown coin be a reason for BTC to dip?

(one more thing...  I am always amazed anyone would give any creedence to Zcash at all... the founders reward is reason #1 to shun it, and opt in privacy is not really privacy).

Never really trusted grin and mimblewimble so doesnt make much difference to most and shouldnt to the btc price.
There is something called snicker which is interesting if you would like privacy on the side of bitcoin in the morning with your breakfast.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5201602.msg53095384#msg53095384

[wachtwoord]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead 

Well first of all I own NO Grin or other MW coin.  The only alt i DO own in any sigificance is Monero, so there's the disclaimer...

But how many times have we heard about a cryptocurrency being toast?  I tend to take these things with a grain of salt.  On the other hand MW is a very experimental tech, and we should not be suprised when this sort of thing fails.

But why would this relative unknown coin be a reason for BTC to dip?

(one more thing...  I am always amazed anyone would give any creedence to Zcash at all... the founders reward is reason #1 to shun it, and opt in privacy is not really privacy).

The fact that the founders have no way to prove they destroyed the initialization keys and therefore could have printed/be printing/will print infinite ZCash without anyone  being the wiser is the #1 reason it has no value.

Founders reward is #2

[vapourminer]

Here's mine if you guys want a rare lurker card.

Damn a quiet lurker with JJG as a BFF

There has got(s) to be some forum members with me as their BFF, even if they don't want it.  It's inevitable and in the algorithm that was created by webtricks, and cannot be avoided - even when some guys and gal might employ tactics to avoid me as their BFF by trying to irritate / annoy me...

errr...



so, this is a contest to see who can lose you as our cards bff 1st then.

... and we win it by annoying you ?? im in!

[JayJuanGee]

Here's mine if you guys want a rare lurker card.

Damn a quiet lurker with JJG as a BFF

There has got(s) to be some forum members with me as their BFF, even if they don't want it.  It's inevitable and in the algorithm that was created by webtricks, and cannot be avoided - even when some guys and gal might employ tactics to avoid me as their BFF by trying to irritate / annoy me...

errr...



so, this is a contest to see who can lose JJG as our cards bff 1st then.

... and we win it by annoying JJG ?? im in!

hahahahahaha

I am saying  that people try, and  people have tried, and you are people who have tried.  I know.  Largely, I remember.

You see.  It did not work.   

Of course, you can try harder.  I am not going to try to stop you from trying harder, yet just like with bitcoin, no guarantees.  Past performance does not guarantee future results.   

[JL0]

This scenario could work or not? I like it  
Is it possible that it goes down?


OR the bearish scenario

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/gZVAxiBa-BITCOIN-price-Prediction-in-2020-Year-BTC-in-Big-Channel/

[Icygreen]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead  

Good thing that Mimblewimble and BTC are not the same thing.  In other words, fuck that shit coin.  

As I understand, mimblewinble is not a coin but privacy developments which were interesting as it related to Bitcoin's development and likely to be on a prudent speculator's radar no?  Especially considering Bitcoin's privacy design?  

Edit: Thanks for the link @rdbase  snicker, mimblewimble.  Bunch of candy bar eating nerds making these up? 

[xhomerx10]

Hey Homer, will you be making a hat for the art entry?  

^ + 1000!

Yeah, homer caps have been probably the single most important artistic action in BTCT ever! It has even transpired off WO frontiers to many other members not regular here.

Homer should make an entry for sure!

I wanted to make an art design with the hat gallery, but...
WO hats are part of Bitcointalk, if the hat gallery can help you, it's at your disposal.
Go ahead xhomerx10 will surprise us.

 Thank you guys, I appreciate the praise and the encouragement.  I've been rather busy lately though and I'm not sure I'll have the time to make something hat-related before the contest deadline.  I'm waiting for some inspiration from the muses but lately, I've only been visited by Melpomene. 

[jojo69]

lately, I've only been visited by Melpomene. 

sorry to hear that Homer, nothing serious I hope

[LUCKMCFLY]

In cases of economic turbulence, it is better to choose Bitcoin, some investors are already doing it intelligently, some keeping discretion.

“If you’ve got to move fast, uncertainty means Bitcoin. I mean, gold, you can’t really carry much of it, it’s hard to store, it’s quite difficult to buy. You can’t just go, I’ll have some of that gold. It’s much easier to buy Bitcoin, and move Bitcoin, and protect Bitcoin than gold. So gold is at a bit of a disadvantage. And it’s old usage as the flight capital of choice is being eroded.”

and:

“I think Bitcoin could easily go to twenty thousand. I’m expecting it to go to fifty, I’ll be very happy if it were to go to one hundred thousand. And the one million dollar Bitcon number is purely what you get if every Satoshi is worth a dollar, no, sorry, a cent. Let me get that right. So that’s just a mathematical number,” he bullishly noted.

Via YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=119&v=g5w2wiuAIA4&feature=emb_logo

Source: https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/11/18/analyst-bitcoin-price-can-reach-50k-on-macroeconomic-uncertainty/

What do you believe is the date of that interview, LUCKMCFLY, or anyone else?

I know that the linked article is from today, and the download of the video is just a few days ago, but based on the content, it seems that Clem Chambers was describing $6k as an upwards price point for BTC (rather than downwards), which would imply that the interview was in early 2019 - before BTC had broken back above $6k, and maybe even before April 1, 2019.  Unless, he was suggesting $6k as a kind of BTC buying opportunity, and that is why he was suggesting $6k as if it were a positive BTC development?

Yes, it is out of context with the reality of the price now and in fact, it refers to $ 6k, although I associated it at the time that Bitcoin began to grow from $ 6k quickly (But I forgot the detail that could have been possibly before of April 1) .Thanks for the clarification JayJuanGee .. Possibly the article seemed relevant to those statements of the interview to show the growth it had from that moment until now.

[xhomerx10]

lately, I've only been visited by Melpomene. 

sorry to hear that Homer, nothing serious I hope

 Nah, I'm good.  I just need some time off work
 

[Hueristic]

Poor lil tinglie....

That word...


W00ps wrong one.

So sensitive?    





 

I'm, not sure you got the joke but i'm quite sure your incapable of hurting my feelings.

Too bad that his writing is often hard to follow.

But coining the term ‘IYI’ (Intellectual Yet Idiot) is priceless  

Ooohh, I havn't heard this one but I like.

Relaying a final message:

I also added a link to my estimates on McAfee’s Dick Math. $1 million in 2020 seems likely, but most of us will never be able to avail of it because of numerous plans underway to fleece the loyal Bitcoin maximalists and burn their fingertips up to their armpits.

Money quote: “Bitcoin is about to shock the hell out of everyone”  

PM'd  you need to fix this quote. BTW, THX 1138 has been ignored forever FYI. If Shelby wants us to read his shit then he can follow the fucking rules.

[infofront]

[JayJuanGee]

Not that BTC needs any reason to dip but this is as good as any.

Mimblewimble’s privacy is fundamentally flawed. Using only $60/week of AWS spend, I was able to uncover the exact addresses of senders and recipients for 96% Grin transactions in real time.
The problem is inherent to Mimblewimble, and I don’t believe there’s a way to fix it. This means Mimblewimble should no longer be considered a viable alternative to Zcash or Monero when it comes to privacy.

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52

TL no link clicky, Mimblewimble is supposedly dead  

Good thing that Mimblewimble and BTC are not the same thing.  In other words, fuck that shit coin.  

As I understand, mimblewinble is not a coin but privacy developments which were interesting as it related to Bitcoin's development and likely to be on a prudent speculator's radar no?  Especially considering Bitcoin's privacy design?  

Edit: Thanks for the link @rdbase  snicker, mimblewimble.  Bunch of candy bar eating nerds making these up? 

Maybe mimblewimble will have some technologies that fold into bitcoin?  There are also privacy developments that seem to exist through lightning network, Schnoor signatures and taproot, to my understanding. 

I do recall some tokens being issued related to mimblewimble, grin which had been a change of plans, when originally they were going to build on bitcoin, they later decided to create and launch some tokens.

So yeah, I am not sure how "prudently" connected are such projects, and of course, we are going to expect some failures and challenges regarding a variety of these efforts which should cause us to be satisified that they are sufficiently separated from bitcoin, at least currently.