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Question: What happens first:
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26410514 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
FTWbitcoinFTW
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February 27, 2014, 04:11:56 PM
 #98641

Quote
It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.
Yes, a multi sign wallet with backup on several place... It's a joke ?
Maybe a judge got all the copy because gox are in a trial ?
empowering
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February 27, 2014, 04:13:03 PM
 #98642

Some facts about MtGox would be nice... really nice.

It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.

Yeaahh... but you prove my point exactly...

I have not seen anything clear at all, and certainly not from MtGox themleves...

just very weird maybe real maybe fake, take overs and crisis letters and theories, and guesses and maybe they lost x or maybe they lost XXX or maybe they did not lose X but just the keys to X , and maybe the cat has them, and maybe the illuminated ones are going to take over, but we have a strong feeling something was stolen? maybe mislaid, technically speaking I cannot quite put my finger on what may have been lost/stolen/kidnapped/spent/blown out of a zebras ass. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Back to my original point.... Some FACTS about Mt Gox would be nice.

All I have seen for days is guess work as that is all we have.



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February 27, 2014, 04:13:44 PM
 #98643

U.S. firms are bullish in spite of all the FUD. Rock n roll.

[Suspicious link removed]j.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304071004579407562692516576
[/b][/u]
Also bitcoin superhero Fred Wilson as well as fellow Union Square Ventures partner Brad Burnham wrote to Senator Manchin.
http:/[Suspicious link removed]/3Upgi13uDy
http:/[Suspicious link removed]/jXC5FrjgxV

And we are still at ~580 because... ?


Hi could you post the text for this by chance?

thanks

Did you mean the WSJ article? Stupid paywall... wish they accepted Bitcoin..

Quote
U.S. firms are pushing ahead with plans to open bitcoin exchanges catering to professional traders, after the closing of a Tokyo-based exchange sent shock waves through the virtual-currency world.

Perseus Telecom, a provider of high-speed telecommunications lines for securities exchanges and trading firms, is joining forces with bitcoin-trading platform Atlas ATS and Strevus Inc., which produces compliance-management tools for financial institutions and other firms, to build one or more U.S.-based digital-currency exchanges in the U.S. and elsewhere.

The push is being driven by strong demand for bitcoin-trading capabilities from Perseus's clients in the high-frequency trading industry, said Perseus Chief Executive Jock Percy.

The firm has created a separate digital-currency unit and already has received $2 million in revenue commitments, the company said. High-frequency trading firms use computers to dart in and out of markets within milliseconds to profit from minuscule pricing advantages.

The meltdown of the Mt. Gox exchange shows that "we have to put in place the right level of institutional controls and mechanisms that we're used to in the world of banking," Mr. Percy said. "That way we can build trust. [A currency] has to have trust."

The sudden closing of Mt. Gox, which once claimed to account for 80% of bitcoin trading volume, underscored the technological and regulatory risks of the five-year-old digital currency. After freezing customer withdrawals on Feb. 6 and suffering a hacking attack, Mt. Gox said it was working on a fix to restore operations. It appeared to shut down completely Tuesday when its website went dark and investors were left with little recourse to retrieve their frozen funds.

Bitcoin is a virtual, computer-driven currency that is created, or "mined," using complex mathematical algorithms. Some merchants accept bitcoins as payment for goods and services. Users also can trade the currency on exchanges or among themselves. But it isn't regulated and isn't backed by a central bank, so when problems arise there is no one to intervene.

Prices of bitcoin have soared in the past year, attracting interest from some professional traders looking to participate in the market. But the troubles of Mt. Gox have underscored the need for more oversight.

The move by Perseus comes after SecondMarket Inc., a platform for trading shares of private companies, said it is putting together an exchange in collaboration with a number of global banks and bitcoin companies. SecondMarket CEO Barry Silbert said in an interview that the model "looks nothing like" Mt. Gox. Instead, he said, it will be "more like a traditional exchange…like the New York Stock Exchange, where you have regulated investors who form the spokes of a hub" with central clearing and settlement of trades and a self-regulatory body.

The U.S. firms trying to roll out new exchanges argue that by bringing in both the Wall Street establishment and regulators, they can offer customers greater confidence in the security of their money.

Mr. Percy said many high-speed firms have expressed interest in trading bitcoin, which appeals to this sector because of its low transaction costs. Meantime, Mr. Silbert said his firm continued to be approached by banks and other financial institutions despite the continuing turmoil at Mt. Gox this past month.

But Citigroup foreign-exchange strategist Steven Englander, who was initially inspired by interest from Wall Street clients to write a series of research reports on bitcoin late last year, said interest has since waned now that a string of crises has halved the bitcoin price to less than $600 from more than $1,000 in December.

"I would say it is still on the outer fringes of the radar screen," said Mr. Englander, who also argued that more-regulated, institutional bitcoin trading could drive away the more libertarian-minded investors who were drawn to bitcoin's anonymity and exclusion from government intervention.

Regulation could be a controversial part of this process. Most U.S. states require such exchanges to get money-transmitter licenses. The exchanges hope to avoid that. SecondMarket already has a broker-dealer license, which would cover currency trading. Atlas ATS hopes to partner with firms that already have broker-dealer licenses.

It isn't clear how federal regulators will respond to those plans. State banking regulators have been scrutinizing bitcoin companies for months.

"This is by no means a death knell for bitcoin or virtual currencies, but it underscores the potential benefits of regulation," Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York Department of Financial Services, said of the Mt. Gox shutdown in an interview Tuesday. Mr. Lawsky's office is considering potential new regulations for virtual-currency companies and held two days of public hearings about the issue last month.

thanks : )
Dragonkiller
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February 27, 2014, 04:14:24 PM
 #98644

Some facts about MtGox would be nice... really nice.

It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.

Yeaahh... but you prove my point exactly...

I have not seen anything clear at all, and certainly not from MtGox themleves...

just very weird maybe real maybe fake, take overs and crisis letters and theories, and guesses and maybe they lost x or maybe they lost XXX or maybe they did not lose X but just the keys to X , and maybe the cat has them, and maybe the illuminated ones are going to take over, but we have a strong feeling something was stolen? maybe mislaid, technically speaking I cannot quite put my finger on what may have been lost/stolen/kidnapped/spent/blown out of a zebras ass. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Back to my original point.... Some FACTS about Mt Gox would be nice.

All I have seen for days is guess work as that is all we have.





Only Mark can give us facts and I don't think we'll be hearing anything solid from him for a long time, if ever.
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February 27, 2014, 04:15:14 PM
 #98645

We will need some more positive news to push it past 600 and further.

We could have nothing but negative news for the next 20 years and it would still go north.  All it takes is time.
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February 27, 2014, 04:17:04 PM
 #98646

U.S. firms are bullish in spite of all the FUD. Rock n roll.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304071004579407562692516576

Also bitcoin superhero Fred Wilson as well as fellow Union Square Ventures partner Brad Burnham wrote to Senator Manchin.
http://t.co/3Upgi13uDy
http://t.co/jXC5FrjgxV

And we are still at ~580 because... ?


Hi could you post the text for this by chance?

thanks

By MICHAEL J. CASEY and ROBIN SIDEL CONNECT
Updated Feb. 26, 2014 11:27 p.m. ET
Barry Silbert, CEO of SecondMarket, says a bitcoin exchange the firm is setting up 'looks nothing like' Mt. Gox. DPA/Zuma Press
U.S. firms are pushing ahead with plans to open bitcoin exchanges catering to professional traders, after the closing of a Tokyo-based exchange sent shock waves through the virtual-currency world.

Perseus Telecom, a provider of high-speed telecommunications lines for securities exchanges and trading firms, is joining forces with bitcoin-trading platform Atlas ATS and Strevus Inc., which produces compliance-management tools for financial institutions and other firms, to build one or more U.S.-based digital-currency exchanges in the U.S. and elsewhere.

The push is being driven by strong demand for bitcoin-trading capabilities from Perseus's clients in the high-frequency trading industry, said Perseus Chief Executive Jock Percy.

The firm has created a separate digital-currency unit and already has received $2 million in revenue commitments, the company said. High-frequency trading firms use computers to dart in and out of markets within milliseconds to profit from minuscule pricing advantages.

The travails at bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox have cast a pall over the virtual currency. Michael Casey argues this is not a death knell for virtual currencies. Photo: AP.

More
Bitcoin's Mt. Gox: At Look at the Man in Charge
Japanese Regulators Take Closer Look at Bitcoin
The meltdown of the Mt. Gox exchange shows that "we have to put in place the right level of institutional controls and mechanisms that we're used to in the world of banking," Mr. Percy said. "That way we can build trust. [A currency] has to have trust."

The sudden closing of Mt. Gox, which once claimed to account for 80% of bitcoin trading volume, underscored the technological and regulatory risks of the five-year-old digital currency. After freezing customer withdrawals on Feb. 6 and suffering a hacking attack, Mt. Gox said it was working on a fix to restore operations. It appeared to shut down completely Tuesday when its website went dark and investors were left with little recourse to retrieve their frozen funds.

Bitcoin is a virtual, computer-driven currency that is created, or "mined," using complex mathematical algorithms. Some merchants accept bitcoins as payment for goods and services. Users also can trade the currency on exchanges or among themselves. But it isn't regulated and isn't backed by a central bank, so when problems arise there is no one to intervene.

Prices of bitcoin have soared in the past year, attracting interest from some professional traders looking to participate in the market. But the troubles of Mt. Gox have underscored the need for more oversight.

The move by Perseus comes after SecondMarket Inc., a platform for trading shares of private companies, said it is putting together an exchange in collaboration with a number of global banks and bitcoin companies. SecondMarket CEO Barry Silbert said in an interview that the model "looks nothing like" Mt. Gox. Instead, he said, it will be "more like a traditional exchange…like the New York Stock Exchange, where you have regulated investors who form the spokes of a hub" with central clearing and settlement of trades and a self-regulatory body.

The U.S. firms trying to roll out new exchanges argue that by bringing in both the Wall Street establishment and regulators, they can offer customers greater confidence in the security of their money.

Mr. Percy said many high-speed firms have expressed interest in trading bitcoin, which appeals to this sector because of its low transaction costs. Meantime, Mr. Silbert said his firm continued to be approached by banks and other financial institutions despite the continuing turmoil at Mt. Gox this past month.

But Citigroup foreign-exchange strategist Steven Englander, who was initially inspired by interest from Wall Street clients to write a series of research reports on bitcoin late last year, said interest has since waned now that a string of crises has halved the bitcoin price to less than $600 from more than $1,000 in December.

"I would say it is still on the outer fringes of the radar screen," said Mr. Englander, who also argued that more-regulated, institutional bitcoin trading could drive away the more libertarian-minded investors who were drawn to bitcoin's anonymity and exclusion from government intervention.

Regulation could be a controversial part of this process. Most U.S. states require such exchanges to get money-transmitter licenses. The exchanges hope to avoid that. SecondMarket already has a broker-dealer license, which would cover currency trading. Atlas ATS hopes to partner with firms that already have broker-dealer licenses.

It isn't clear how federal regulators will respond to those plans. State banking regulators have been scrutinizing bitcoin companies for months.

"This is by no means a death knell for bitcoin or virtual currencies, but it underscores the potential benefits of regulation," Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York Department of Financial Services, said of the Mt. Gox shutdown in an interview Tuesday. Mr. Lawsky's office is considering potential new regulations for virtual-currency companies and held two days of public hearings about the issue last month.

Write to Michael J. Casey at michael.j.casey@wsj.com and Robin Sidel at robin.sidel@wsj.com


Dragonkiller
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February 27, 2014, 04:20:45 PM
 #98647

Quote
It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.
Yes, a multi sign wallet with backup on several place... It's a joke ?
Maybe a judge got all the copy because gox are in a trial ?


I think it's a technical issue, not a legal one. They almost certainly also have legal problems, but I don't think the loss of access to coins is a legal issue.
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February 27, 2014, 04:25:47 PM
 #98648

Some facts about MtGox would be nice... really nice.

It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.

Yeaahh... but you prove my point exactly...

I have not seen anything clear at all, and certainly not from MtGox themleves...

just very weird maybe real maybe fake, take overs and crisis letters and theories, and guesses and maybe they lost x or maybe they lost XXX or maybe they did not lose X but just the keys to X , and maybe the cat has them, and maybe the illuminated ones are going to take over, but we have a strong feeling something was stolen? maybe mislaid, technically speaking I cannot quite put my finger on what may have been lost/stolen/kidnapped/spent/blown out of a zebras ass. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Back to my original point.... Some FACTS about Mt Gox would be nice.

All I have seen for days is guess work as that is all we have.


Only Mark can give us facts and I don't think we'll be hearing anything solid from him for a long time, if ever.

I am not so sure...

Yeah this is all very retarded, and to be honest I am not saying I would trust what comes out of his mouth, but what I am saying is the obvious, we have not actually had any news from MtGox, outright to say the one thing that we all want to know "The coins are gone" sure we have not heard the opposite either... but this is a bit like going to the Dr's and having a check up and then spending the next week living at a hypochondriacs house and frantically listing off all of the terrible things that could be wrong.... that still does not mean when you get to the Dr;s they will not turn around and tell you that you have cancer of the A hole- but it certainly does little use dreaming up Alzheimers and aids into the mix before you even get to the Dr's..

I am sure the fit has hit the fan, but I have heard every figure from a few thousand, to 750K to millions to all of the Bitcoins having been stolen...
they cannot all be true... (yeah ok all of the coins could cover a million or 750K but you get the point) then its they are being investigated, then taken over, then insolvent, then doing a bunk... then they possibly do have the coins, then they do not...

Lot of disinfos... not helped by silence from Mt Gox...

What we need is for MK to come out and say - all is lost, and this is the cause, or all is not lost, you need to wait until x.

The fact that we have not had one or the other is odd- and as little as I trust MK, I do not trust twobit not one bit.

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February 27, 2014, 04:26:27 PM
 #98649

The price on bitcoin.de shoot up from €440,- to €525,- in just two minutes Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked













 Wink
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February 27, 2014, 04:26:52 PM
 #98650


"This is by no means a death knell for bitcoin or virtual currencies, but it underscores the potential benefits of regulation," Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York Department of Financial Services, said of the Mt. Gox shutdown in an interview Tuesday. Mr. Lawsky's office is considering potential new regulations for virtual-currency companies and held two days of public hearings about the issue last month.

Write to Michael J. Casey at michael.j.casey@wsj.com and Robin Sidel at robin.sidel@wsj.com


Thanks
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February 27, 2014, 04:27:53 PM
 #98651

With 100 coins, how much can a man make with day trading?

With just a 10$ gain I see an easy 1000 bucks there. But never had luck with day trading.
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February 27, 2014, 04:28:44 PM
 #98652

"Japan says any bitcoin regulation should be international":

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-bitcoin-mtgox-japan-idUSBREA1Q0I520140227

 Tongue
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February 27, 2014, 04:29:21 PM
 #98653

The price on bitcoin.de shoot up from €440,- to €525,- in just two minutes Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked













 Wink


As I posted this 3 days ago, there was a very positive review about bitcoins on the most watched tv channel in Germany.
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February 27, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
 #98654

Is this thing fucking BULLISH HuhHuh

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/

Please, clear it to me.
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February 27, 2014, 04:32:29 PM
 #98655

Quote
It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.
Yes, a multi sign wallet with backup on several place... It's a joke ?
Maybe a judge got all the copy because gox are in a trial ?


I think it's a technical issue, not a legal one. They almost certainly also have legal problems, but I don't think the loss of access to coins is a legal issue.
I take this from reddit but it's my vue too

Quote
IMO the banks have barred access to accounts and deposit boxes due to some injunction with cooperation of the Japanese government, and the gag orders and subpoenas prevent him from saying "boo" about it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/
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February 27, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
 #98656


*snip

Lot of disinfos... not helped by silence from Mt Gox...

What we need is for MK to come out and say - all is lost, and this is the cause, or all is not lost, you need to wait until x.

The fact that we have not had one or the other is odd- and as little as I trust MK, I do not trust twobit not one bit.



not gonna happen. they just stole the coins and are never going to admit it. instead, they will hide behind that malleability problem. You'll NEVER get a clear statement whatsoever

It's so much more than "odd". At this point it's just poof of guilt. They're just preparing to sell the business (without the coins...) and then, adios amigos...

(i am using "them" because i believe that in order for Gox employees to keep their mouth shut until now, they should have had some piece of dat huge cake too.)
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February 27, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
 #98657

Is this thing fucking BULLISH HuhHuh

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/

Please, clear it to me.


Very interesting.
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February 27, 2014, 04:36:25 PM
 #98658

Quote
It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.
Yes, a multi sign wallet with backup on several place... It's a joke ?
Maybe a judge got all the copy because gox are in a trial ?


I think it's a technical issue, not a legal one. They almost certainly also have legal problems, but I don't think the loss of access to coins is a legal issue.
I take this from reddit but it's my vue too

Quote
IMO the banks have barred access to accounts and deposit boxes due to some injunction with cooperation of the Japanese government, and the gag orders and subpoenas prevent him from saying "boo" about it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/

This was a possible explanation posted by someone on this thread. I definitely think a technical issue is more likely.

--

From reading this chat log (if its authentic) I immediately come to the following conclusions:

They did not have a cold wallet, it was one huge hot wallet, implemented by MT.
Occasionally it lost (or failed to store correctly or deleted¹) private keys of its own change outputs ('not "lost" just yet, just temporarily unavailable')
He seems to believe the keys are still there somewhere buried deeply somewhere in his database server ('We haven't given up')

_____________________
¹) This is how I imagine their wallet worked (and how it fucked up):

User initiates withdrawal:

* debit amount from user account
* generate new private key for change address and create tx
* store tx in database (indexed by txid)
* store private key in database (indexed by address, foreign_key=txid)
* push tx to network

a week later (cron job)

* for all unconfirmed tx older than 1 week:
*     credit BTC back to customer account
*     delete "invalid" tx
*         -> cascaded delete "unused" change address and its private key (ouch!)

run 2 years until wallet is dry, all supposed UTXO turn out to be STXO and all real UTXO are in nirvana already.
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February 27, 2014, 04:39:03 PM
 #98659


That could be a way to move the market.

So does this mean that if when I transferred in my BTC it was worth $1200 I will be getting $1200 per btc refund?

DONT believe this shit man!!! Just a joko of our friend Amechan.

Don't pin this on me! I was quoting the joker!
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February 27, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
 #98660

Some facts about MtGox would be nice... really nice.

It's becoming more and more clear that the coins haven't been stolen, they've just lost the keys lol. Once this is confirmed, should be very bullish.

Yeaahh... but you prove my point exactly...

I have not seen anything clear at all, and certainly not from MtGox themleves...

just very weird maybe real maybe fake, take overs and crisis letters and theories, and guesses and maybe they lost x or maybe they lost XXX or maybe they did not lose X but just the keys to X , and maybe the cat has them, and maybe the illuminated ones are going to take over, but we have a strong feeling something was stolen? maybe mislaid, technically speaking I cannot quite put my finger on what may have been lost/stolen/kidnapped/spent/blown out of a zebras ass. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Back to my original point.... Some FACTS about Mt Gox would be nice.

All I have seen for days is guess work as that is all we have.


Only Mark can give us facts and I don't think we'll be hearing anything solid from him for a long time, if ever.

I am not so sure...

Yeah this is all very retarded, and to be honest I am not saying I would trust what comes out of his mouth, but what I am saying is the obvious, we have not actually had any news from MtGox, outright to say the one thing that we all want to know "The coins are gone" sure we have not heard the opposite either... but this is a bit like going to the Dr's and having a check up and then spending the next week living at a hypochondriacs house and frantically listing off all of the terrible things that could be wrong.... that still does not mean when you get to the Dr;s they will not turn around and tell you that you have cancer of the A hole- but it certainly does little use dreaming up Alzheimers and aids into the mix before you even get to the Dr's..

I am sure the fit has hit the fan, but I have heard every figure from a few thousand, to 750K to millions to all of the Bitcoins having been stolen...
they cannot all be true... (yeah ok all of the coins could cover a million or 750K but you get the point) then its they are being investigated, then taken over, then insolvent, then doing a bunk... then they possibly do have the coins, then they do not...

Lot of disinfos... not helped by silence from Mt Gox...

What we need is for MK to come out and say - all is lost, and this is the cause, or all is not lost, you need to wait until x.

The fact that we have not had one or the other is odd- and as little as I trust MK, I do not trust twobit not one bit.



The most likely event changes over time, that's why there are so many conflicting reports. Mark hasn't come out to say 'we've lost the coins' because he still hopes he can get access to them or that gox can be acquired.
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