Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Overall, I think it's much cheaper and more permanently effective to just hunt down miners and kill them until you can easily do a 51% attack.

Why is it that the easy/direct solution to so many problems is to kill people?

bc you are a PSYCHO   

[JayJuanGee]

Does this thread actually contain any bitcoin specific information at all any more?  
Apart from a half-hearted CCMF here and there, the off-topic discussions seem to have increased by about 10000%.

I dare even say that the only thing that has a larger gain percentage-wise over time thant bitcoin itself, is the amount of off-topic discussion in this thread.
But I even now predict that off-topic discussions are a bubble. They will have a peak, and then crash towards 0 !!!! So better stop it now, before it's too late!  

Earlier in the week, I responded to one of the posts about the Mt Gox hacked information, and I said that I could NOT figure out the data b/c dates of the data were NOT contained therein.  MY POST WAS REMOVED b/c it was supposedly off topic.

[Todorius]

I have written several times what is my opinion of bitcoin. Please read it (you may be even more disappointed then).

No, I have no interest in sociological research on the bitcoin community. 

And yes, I have a PhD in computer science, that I got by asking stupid questions.

How I Quit My PhD And Went Full-Time Bitcoin - Ryan X. Charles

I've got a PhD in theoretical physics and I can tell you guys the following.
As a physicist, it is my desire to understand things on a fundamental level, how the universe works, and create models which make valid predictions, veryfied or falsified by experimental data.

I haven't got a PhD in computer science, however, I came to realize that bitcoin is so fascinating, that one has to be a fool to neglect the consequences
that arise from this technology.
My knowledge of programming and computer science may be limited, but one must be quite narrow minded not to see the broader picture here.

There will always be people who will not see the promise of a new technology, but dismiss it as a scam, that it will never work, etc.

The same arguments again and again.
People said the alternating current principle of Nicola Tesla was inferior to Edison's continuous current. We know how that worked out for Edison.
Similar people said the internet is just a passing phenomenon. Now we certainly know the internet is here to stay.

Every breakthrough technology encounters severe opposition, also from so-called experts.
Those are the ones that are wrong most often, because they cling to old beliefs, which they cannot let go.
Even scientists, yes scientists, who should be rational and validate or devalidate only based on proof and knowledge, even they are only humans.

When Einstein came forth with his theory of relativity, there were many in the scientific community who opposed his theory, even though they were
experts, world renowned scientists.
And Einstein himself, genius as he was, never could accept the fact that quantum physics was a valid theory. He famously said: "God does not play dice."
Because of the probabilistic nature of Quantum mechanics. Even he could not let go of old beliefs. And he was a true genius.

Well, long story short:

People can't let go of old beliefs, they cling to them.

I for one believe that bitcoin is something much grander than we can even comprehend right now.

As humanity makes the transition from a type 0 civilization (the most primitive type of a civilization on the Kardashev scale) to a planetary civilization,
bitcoin could indeed mark a step towards a global economy. Everything becomes globalized and digitalized, so why not currency? Bitcoin is a normal step
towards a digitalized world economy.

Just my two cents on the topic, and now I'll be silent again and leave the debating to others.

P.S: CCMF !!!!!

[ErisDiscordia]

People that say stuff like this sound like they subscribe to the Just World fallacy, for this case specifically that every problem someone has stems from themselves, and that you can't possibly be struggling if you're working hard. It's a lie some people tell themselves to make them feel better, usually out of either a fear of it happening to them, believing that it cannot happen to them, or believing that since it has never happened to them, the poor must be doing something wrong. Every ex-CEO probably subscribed to that theory until they had to start delivering pizzas.

Either that, or you have a heavy and unwarranted disdain for poor people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You don't need to subscribe to the just world fallacy, nor have a disdain for poor people to want to abolish government involvement in social security. You might be of the opinion (as I am), that social security would probably better be handled if the government wasn't involved. Private individuals would have more disposable wealth to share with others, if the government would refrain from taking half of their income for starters.

Like you describe the just world fallacy as an attempt to come to terms with ones own (presumably comparatively well-off) situation compared to the situation lots of poor people find themselves in. The same thing can be said about wanting the government to take care of social security. That way when you walk down the street and see a beggar in torn clothes you can think to yourself that it is none of your business. It's the job of somebody else to take care of this problem - we have experts for that. Relying on government (or other institutions for that matter) to take care of the poor shows more disdain for them than advocating the stance that we are all responsible on an individual level. And if you are OK with living in a world with lots of poor people - fine then. But if you're not, don't stand around crying for somebody to do something. Inevitably some politician will hear your cry and do "something" and we all find ourselves wishing he hadn't done anything At least give that beggar a dollar yourself or treat him to lunch or a haircut or whatever. Give him the feeling that he is a human being, too! That's what people need the most anyway. A bureaucrat won't give him that.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Richy_T]

People that say stuff like this sound like they subscribe to the Just World fallacy, for this case specifically that every problem someone has stems from themselves, and that you can't possibly be struggling if you're working hard. It's a lie some people tell themselves to make them feel better, usually out of either a fear of it happening to them, believing that it cannot happen to them, or believing that since it has never happened to them, the poor must be doing something wrong. Every ex-CEO probably subscribed to that theory until they had to start delivering pizzas.

Either that, or you have a heavy and unwarranted disdain for poor people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

No. That's what you want to believe because it allows you demonify others and reject their viewpoints. This happens on both the left and the right and is unfortunate as it allows those in power to divide us rather neatly rather than allow meaningful and fruitful discussion.

[JayJuanGee]

 Very Funny.... and witty, Billyjoeallen... even though you are missing the point about how the capitalist is able to take all the surplus value from the increased benefits and to put them into his pocket.

You're not a capitalist? You work for free or just to cover living expenses?

I have NO problem with people making profits... there is a difference between a form of regulated capitalism and forms of vulture capitalism whereby the rrich exploit and pretty much steal from the people in various ways and make their money using trickery and such leverage.  small honest businesses are out gunned when these kinds of vulture capitalists are allowed to run free and unfettered.

[seleme]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

[cbutters]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

Agreed, this is hardly wall observing... its killing the thread, I personally wish they would start their own thread on it. But I don't moderate or make decisions so.....

In wall observing news, It looks like houbi's price might actually surpass bitstamp! :O

[dreamspark]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

I know right, bout as boring as BTC has been the last couple days as well...

[Adrian-x]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

I'm now all in, I guess so are most other so until more disposable fiat shows up at the door, we'll pump the philosophical principles.

[Nightowlace]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

I know right, bout as boring as BTC has been the last couple days as well...

How many people skipped right over the two or more paragraph posts in the last several pages? Say I.

I

[Nightowlace]

Not trying to be an ass but less is more. Sum up your points please. Too much to read when you're trying to catch up.

[podyx]

$700+ in weekend will be my buy signal

[octaft]

  In this welfare state the more they breed, the more they're paid.  5 kids? congrats, you make more than the working poor.

How much a month in total cash and food benefits do you think someone with 5 kids gets paid in the US?

I give up. how much?
 Less than here, presumably.

Okay, well how much do they make there, and where is there? I don't have exact numbers because they calculate it based on certain factors like monthly income and expenses, which will obviously be different in each case. but for the US (NY specifically, which is a fairly liberal state), the absolute maximum, that is, no income, huge dependent costs (I put in $20,000 per month, which is obviously way too high and will automatically put your income per month into a huge negative), etc., is $900. And that's for FIVE kids (which would be considered 6 household members, a couple with 5 kids would be 7, or $995). Most needy families do not actually have that many children. In fact, most families period don't have that many children. That's simply propaganda. The absolute maximum for a family of 3 is $497, again that is the maximum, and will frequently be far less.

Also note how increasing from 3 family members to 6 only increased the maximum benefits from $497 to $900.

Play with the numbers yourself if you like. I just googled SNAP benefits calculator in google. Note that you make significantly less than the working poor if you're not working, because you can earn up to a certain amount and still be eligible for (less) assistance. The calculator below shows you what that number is based on household members (by far the most important number):

http://benefitsplus.cssny.org/benefit-tool/benefits-plus-snap-calculator

If you are a couple with 2 kids making $2000 a month in employment income, you are eligible for $200 of the $600 maximum allotment. That's a full $1600 more because you have an okay job.

Regardless of anything else, nobody can argue that these benefits are allowing anybody to live like royalty, and nobody can argue that no job is better than having a job. The fact that you can work and still collect is what rewards these people for working, because now you can actually afford to enjoy yourself a little bit and get some breathing room.

[octaft]

People that say stuff like this sound like they subscribe to the Just World fallacy, for this case specifically that every problem someone has stems from themselves, and that you can't possibly be struggling if you're working hard. It's a lie some people tell themselves to make them feel better, usually out of either a fear of it happening to them, believing that it cannot happen to them, or believing that since it has never happened to them, the poor must be doing something wrong. Every ex-CEO probably subscribed to that theory until they had to start delivering pizzas.

Either that, or you have a heavy and unwarranted disdain for poor people, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

No. That's what you want to believe because it allows you demonify others and reject their viewpoints. This happens on both the left and the right and is unfortunate as it allows those in power to divide us rather neatly rather than allow meaningful and fruitful discussion.

I can't demonize someone I don't know, I can only speculate. If I'm wrong, say I'm wrong and tell me why. I might counter you, but if you honestly and earnestly address me, I will extend you the same courtesy. Stop letting stupid people from my side influence your judgment of me. I might come off as arrogant and a dick sometimes, but there is totally a method to my madness, and besides, let's face it, I would get totally trucked by all of you if I tried to be too nice.

[threecats]

I

For the last three days in fact ...

[soullyG]

The Bank of England have released a quarterly bulletin which is mainly about the definition of money, and its role in a modern economy. It (of course) includes some stuff on Bitcoin and digital currencies, as well as local currencies - Coin Desk have an overview here, or you can read the PDF directly here.

[pietje]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

I know right, bout as boring as BTC has been the last couple days as well...

How many people skipped right over the two or more paragraph posts in the last several pages? Say I.

I

Yep.. Alot of boring reading.
It means everyone is ready to choo choo again 

[BitChick]

Damn, all this philosophy in last 10-15 pages makes this thread boring 

I could start talking about religion if you are tired of philosophy.