Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[hdbuck]

ohh mann electric cars are the worst.. you dont get to hear them when crossing streets..

Yeah, because you wouldn't want the awful personal responsibility burden of turning your head to see if a car is coming before crossing a street. Why not regulate it some more? Mandate rules to make EVs louder, then re-read Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron.

The sad thing is it has already happened. I think it was the National Federation of the Blind in USA forced Nissan Leaf to ADD NOISE to their car. Mandated noise, for goodness sake.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/20/blind-group-displeased-that-nissan-leaf-sound-can-be-turned-off/

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

[podyx]

ohh mann electric cars are the worst.. you dont get to hear them when crossing streets..

Yeah, because you wouldn't want the awful personal responsibility burden of turning your head to see if a car is coming before crossing a street. Why not regulate it some more? Mandate rules to make EVs louder, then re-read Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron.

The sad thing is it has already happened. I think it was the National Federation of the Blind in USA forced Nissan Leaf to ADD NOISE to their car. Mandated noise, for goodness sake.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/20/blind-group-displeased-that-nissan-leaf-sound-can-be-turned-off/

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

i always turn my heads but still prefer to hear noises of cars

[KeyserSoze]

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

Please point me to the studies which reveal low noise EVs create lots of accidents. Your position is that we abdicate personal responsibility while crossing roads? Perhaps we should raise taxes so we can provide large titanium bubbles for people to use while crossing roads - it would certainly make them more safe.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[hdbuck]

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

Please point me to the studies which reveal low noise EVs create lots of accidents. Your position is that we abdicate personal responsibility while crossing roads? Perhaps we should raise taxes so we can provide large titanium bubbles for people to use while crossing roads - it would certainly make them more safe.

there you go:

-> http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811526.pdf

The analysis of crash location indicated that the odds of an HE vehicle being
involved in a pedestrian crash were statistically higher than the odds of ICE
vehicle being involved in similar crash when the crash occurred on the roadway.
However, the odds of an HE vehicle being involved in a bicycle crash were
statistically higher than the odds of ICE vehicle being involved in similar crash
when the crash occurred at an intersection.

edit: plus i dont think electric cars are greener.. think of all those batteries which are going to end up dumped

edit edit: in the end, my position is that electric cars are just a way for manufacturers to increase their marketshare and profit.. classic  

[dreamspark]

 You do NOT agree or you believe that I am missing something, so why go on about it?

Um, isnt that what a conversation is. You dont agree with whats being said to you or you think that others are missing something so you keep going on about it. Difference is other people arent changing word definitions of their own accord and don't consistently state their opinions as facts.

Anyway, no need to reply to this. We're not getting anywhere because you make yourself immpossible to converse with.

YES... YOU ARE VERY possible to converse with.   hehehehe

   You throw out a personal attack and then you say, o.k... no need for me to respond.


Let me just say, the reason that I am saying that we do NOT need to go on about this particular topic is that if we cannot agree upon basic definitions (such as the application of coercion in government and I have been addressing variations of this question in various places for nearly 20 more than 50 pages), then we are NOT going to agree about other conclusions that are built upon those definitions.  

Personally, I do NOT find it fruitful or productive to spend time discussing things with people in circumstances in which we do NOT agree about fundamental definitions.   Sometimes we may go around and around the bush several times, and then figure out that we do agree on a redefinition of our original disagreement, yet I am just saying why go around and around the bush several times when it does NOT really matter that much.  I would rather talk about bitcoin related stuff b/c  I do NOT feel that I need to resolve these role of government matters ... NOT at the moment....  

Several posters have already made their points on the role of government topic in several ways... though I get the sense that probably, a few of us are NOT completely exhausted, yet, and accordingly, the discussion is NOT quite over, yet.  hehehe...

TO DA MOON

You make no sense, you do realise that this isnt a competition to see who can write the most words. You just ramble on and on and dont make any points. Ive highlighted the major sticking point. Its not that we cant agree on a basic definition it is that you wont accept one. Anyway, good day to you and welcome to ignore.

[Richy_T]

Atlas CEO's talking on Fox Business about their new exchange:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3335109592001/ceos-behind-new-exchange-system-talk-bitcoin

Please.  It's embarassing.

I'm glad there are boosters and entrepreneurs out there, but why do they have to be such dim bulbs?

I love how those two guys are getting a whole lot of media attention and keep talking about their "own network" and "wall street type technology" and their "wall street type security". Meanwhile.. they are hosting at AMAZON EC2.

Yeah, like these losers

http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/

[Richy_T]

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

Please point me to the studies which reveal low noise EVs create lots of accidents. Your position is that we abdicate personal responsibility while crossing roads? Perhaps we should raise taxes so we can provide large titanium bubbles for people to use while crossing roads - it would certainly make them more safe.

I propose we issue all blind people with jet-packs so that they can completely avoid the road crossing situation.

This will involve slightly more expensive training for the guide-dogs but I think the outcome will be worth it.

The blind people might object but we can make it a government mandate which would mean it is voluntary (apparently)

[JayJuanGee]

 You do NOT agree or you believe that I am missing something, so why go on about it?

Um, isnt that what a conversation is. You dont agree with whats being said to you or you think that others are missing something so you keep going on about it. Difference is other people arent changing word definitions of their own accord and don't consistently state their opinions as facts.

Anyway, no need to reply to this. We're not getting anywhere because you make yourself immpossible to converse with.

YES... YOU ARE VERY possible to converse with.   hehehehe

   You throw out a personal attack and then you say, o.k... no need for me to respond.


Let me just say, the reason that I am saying that we do NOT need to go on about this particular topic is that if we cannot agree upon basic definitions (such as the application of coercion in government and I have been addressing variations of this question in various places for nearly 20 more than 50 pages), then we are NOT going to agree about other conclusions that are built upon those definitions.  

Personally, I do NOT find it fruitful or productive to spend time discussing things with people in circumstances in which we do NOT agree about fundamental definitions.   Sometimes we may go around and around the bush several times, and then figure out that we do agree on a redefinition of our original disagreement, yet I am just saying why go around and around the bush several times when it does NOT really matter that much.  I would rather talk about bitcoin related stuff b/c  I do NOT feel that I need to resolve these role of government matters ... NOT at the moment....  

Several posters have already made their points on the role of government topic in several ways... though I get the sense that probably, a few of us are NOT completely exhausted, yet, and accordingly, the discussion is NOT quite over, yet.  hehehe...

TO DA MOON

You make no sense, you do realise that this isnt a competition to see who can write the most words. You just ramble on and on and dont make any points. Ive highlighted the major sticking point. Its not that we cant agree on a basic definition it is that you wont accept one. Anyway, good day to you and welcome to ignore.

Yes.  Insult and then ignore. 

Listening is half of the conversation, which you have chosen NOT to do.... 

[JayJuanGee]

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

Please point me to the studies which reveal low noise EVs create lots of accidents. Your position is that we abdicate personal responsibility while crossing roads? Perhaps we should raise taxes so we can provide large titanium bubbles for people to use while crossing roads - it would certainly make them more safe.

I propose we issue all blind people with jet-packs so that they can completely avoid the road crossing situation.

This will involve slightly more expensive training for the guide-dogs but I think the outcome will be worth it.

The blind people might object but we can make it a government mandate which would mean it is voluntary (apparently)

I am glad that you are keeping a good sense of humor about this.

And, it moves us in the flying car direction, too.... win, win..   outfit the dogs and the owners with synchronized jetpacks that must follow exact governmental specifications.  And, the synchronized packs would be voluntary so long as the blind wanted the dogs to live...

In the event of non-compliance with any of the particulars, then death sentence to the dog.... something like that..... We'll have to work out the details... or maybe we will just implement and let the details be worked out at some later point.. see how it plays out...

[PoolMinor]

I propose we issue all blind people with jet-packs so that they can completely avoid the road crossing situation.

This will involve slightly more expensive training for the guide-dogs but I think the outcome will be worth it.

The blind people might object but we can make it a government mandate which would mean it is voluntary (apparently)

Don't be silly these will work out better.
↓↓↓↓↓

[dreamspark]

Yes.  Insult and then ignore. 

Listening is half of the conversation, which you have chosen NOT to do.... 

Aw poor boy did I hurt your feelings?

I never insulted you I said your rants were senseless which they are. YOU are the one whos not listening...

[Richy_T]

Don't be silly these will work out better.
↓↓↓↓↓

I think you can take safe sex too far.

[droptable]

ohh mann electric cars are the worst.. you dont get to hear them when crossing streets..

Yeah, because you wouldn't want the awful personal responsibility burden of turning your head to see if a car is coming before crossing a street.

[KeyserSoze]

yeeea but still, you cant blame people for being used to car's noise since it has been invented and suddenly change it. it do create a lot of accidents.

Please point me to the studies which reveal low noise EVs create lots of accidents.

-> http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811526.pdf

Thanks. Apparently several studies show statistically higher pedestrian accident rates, I suppose this falls under our incessant need to de-risk everything through regulation instead of personal responsibility. I would like to know why the 2011 study chose only certain makes/models/states but that's my skeptical nature.

The Wiki page also on EV noises, interestingly, talks about how UK laws dictate car manufacturers allow for sounds to be disabled between 11PM and 6AM. Apparently the UK is more concerned about sleep deprivation than the killer noiseless EV threat.

edit: plus i dont think electric cars are greener.. think of all those batteries which are going to end up dumped

Perhaps some people buy EVs because they consider them cool, like a Porsche, and are likewise not compelled by green arguments? Or perhaps, when all is considered such as battery recycling, EV batteries still allow EVs to be greener than ICE cars? Who knows? Either one of us could google "ev ice green myth" and find endless opposing articles.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/what-happens-to-ev-and-hybrid-batteries.html

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[barbs]

630 wall is down!! hide your wife! Hide your kids!

[KeyserSoze]

I propose we issue all blind people with jet-packs so that they can completely avoid the road crossing situation.
This will involve slightly more expensive training for the guide-dogs but I think the outcome will be worth it.
The blind people might object but we can make it a government mandate which would mean it is voluntary (apparently)

I like the cut of your jib. Hoverpacks for the blind. My goodness, the implications are staggering. I will go claim BlindHoverpacks.com now because FlyingBlind.com has been taken. "Flying blind on a rocket cycle," could take on a whole new meaning beyond Flash Gordon -- it could be a euphemism for "voluntary mandates."

[JayJuanGee]

Yes.  Insult and then ignore. 

Listening is half of the conversation, which you have chosen NOT to do.... 

Aw poor boy did I hurt your feelings?

I never insulted you I said your rants were senseless which they are. YOU are the one whos not listening...

So you are listening.. I thought that you were going to ignore me.  So does that mean that you are allowing me the graces of your ear and a chance to respond to your latest post or not.... Maybe you are too fickle to be able to tolerate such? 

Regarding emotion:  I do NOT get worked up about these kinds of posts b/c I accept that there are a variety of opinions out there, and sometimes posters get worked up and engage in personal attacks or other whimsical discourtesies.  I have been guilty of it myself, from time to time, and even more difficult to keep a polite tone when trying to type quickly and to get the ideas out quickly... b/c as we all know, there are only so many hours in the day.    I am also open to having some of these potentially controversial discussions via PM to the extent that there may be a way to address issues (that may be personal) outside of the public thread.

Actually, one of the difficulties with any proposed change is to figure out the extent to which various aspects of the existing system may need to be dismantled in order to incorporate new ideas.  For sure, I am NOT opposed to considering and possibly trying out new and innovative ideas; however, frequently a problem with these various anti-government ideations that posters are proposing to implement, there is a push to get rid of government (and taxes) on a broad and comprehensive scale, as if government were the oppressor of the people (or the one coercing the people), but then that solution usually would NOT account for the fact that frequently government may be the only force that we have that is powerful enough to keep large corporation and the rich in check, regarding the various methods that the rich and large corporation employ to exploit regular people.  Without government, then frequently regular people would lose much of their voice and power and would be outgunned by the resources of the rich and the large corporations. 

Generally, the government is NOT the evil to fight, except to the extent to which it is either coopted by the forces of the rich or that the government is NO longer representing the people.... and frequently, trickle down is insufficient method in ensuring the needs of the people are met (maybe that's where coercion comes to play?)...

[aminorex]

A false breakout to the down side would mean an excursion to the volatility band lower bound, about 625.  Anything below 625 is breaking the up trend on a 1hr.